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TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
CA Corporations Code sec 7140. enumerates the powers of a nonprofit mutual benefit corporation which we are. It states that the corporations powers are subject to any limitations in the articles of incorporation and any other applicable laws. So here we have the top of the hierarchy of governance, the law.

Our 1-page articles of incorporation state "The specific purpose of this corporation is to Maintain private roads and greenbelt of a X-lot subdivision."

Last section states: "Notwithstanding any of the above statements of purpose and powers, this corporation shall not, except to an insubstantial degree, engage in activities or exercise any powers that are not in furtherance of the specific purpose of this corporation."

The board is having the CC&Rs completely revised but they have let out very little information as to the changes they are making which include items unrelated to road maintenance such as rental restrictions, pets, and clearing private property then billing the owner.

I was advised by an attorney who is an authority on HOA law that our articles are unusually narrow, and he explained that the power to enforce is completely separate from the covenants embodied in the Declaration.

I thought this was an important topic and interesting for discussion.
BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971
Posted:
I have nothing to offer, I’m sorry. But I’m very interested in what others might say.

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Say, Terri, What did the attorney mean by this statement: "the power to enforce is completely separate from the covenants embodied in the Declaration" with respects to the Articles?
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
First:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 07/13/2023 5:57 AM
CA Corporations Code sec 7140. enumerates the powers of a nonprofit mutual benefit corporation which we are. It states that the corporations powers are subject to any limitations in the articles of incorporation and any other applicable laws. So here we have the top of the hierarchy of governance, the [edit by ElleN: statutes].
I propose inserting a teaching moment here, as follows.

Both the Davis-Stirling Common Interest Development (CID) statute and the California Corporations Code apply to California CIDs. Of the two statutes, which statute is higher in the hierarchy of governing documents and statutes, and why?

Hint: Google on

"conflicts" "statutes" "apposite"

Second:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 07/13/2023 5:57 AM
Our 1-page articles of incorporation state "The specific purpose of this corporation is to Maintain private roads and greenbelt of a X-lot subdivision."

Last section states: "Notwithstanding any of the above statements of purpose and powers, this corporation shall not, except to an insubstantial degree, engage in activities or exercise any powers that are not in furtherance of the specific purpose of this corporation."

The board is having the CC&Rs completely revised but they have let out very little information as to the changes they are making which include items unrelated to road maintenance such as rental restrictions, pets, and clearing private property then billing the owner.
As one ponders this situation, I think one must keep in mind that California's HOA statute is apposite vis-a-vis the California Corporations Code. This means that, when bona fide conflicts arise between the two statutes, the HOA statute controls.

To me, the first question to ask about these amendments is: Are any of them more restrictive than the present covenants?

If so, then in my experience, this is where problems arise.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Hi Kerry, he meant they are apples and oranges. He said you can write whatever covenants you want but you can't enforce them absent the power to do so.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Indications are the proposed restrictions will be completely new. We haven't seen the final language. We have no rent restrictions. Directors can only go on private property relative to common area work which is roads and greenbelt. They are not allowed on private property for any other reason.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 07/13/2023 9:21 AM
We have no rent restrictions.
Then the HOA had better be using a competent attorney to draft these proposed amendments.

From much discussion of this over the years, including California case law discussion, if a super-majority successfully passes an amendment applying certain rental restrictions, I have doubts the HOA may lawfully apply these restrictions to any current landlord, like yourself. If you want to know why, ask.

I would never say the power to enforce covenants is completely separate from the covenants. If you want to know why, ask.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Yes, owners acquiring title prior to recording such an amendment would not be subject to rent restrictions. Even some owners afterward under certain circumstances.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Terri

A BOD can make Rules and Regulations but they cannot modify, change, add, delete covenants nor bylaws without an ownership vote.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 07/13/2023 9:15 AM
He said you can write whatever covenants you want but you can't enforce them absent the power to do so.
One owner has the lawful right, and will often succeed in court, to enforce restrictive covenants against another owner. You yourself alluded to this recently when you brought up how covenants are "equitable servitudes" et cetera. There's no special language required, other than phrases like "these covenants run with the land... ". Also the covenants have to be recorded with the county.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
I should have been clearer: a board can propose amendments to the declaration and even get them passed by the membership but if it doesn't have the power to enforce them - for example because the new restrictions are outside the specific purpose of the corporation -, that is a problem for the board.

The hierarchy applies when there is a conflict. If there is no conflict, it seems the board would have to adhere to the limited power bestowed by the articles.

As I said we still don't know what the final proposed amendments will be but we know for sure they want to clear private land, ostensibly for fire protection, then bill/lien the owner.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 07/13/2023 10:48 AM
I should have been clearer: a board can propose amendments to the declaration and even get them passed by the membership but if it doesn't have the power to enforce them - for example because the new restrictions are outside the specific purpose of the corporation -, that is a problem for the board.
I reject the premise of your argument. In the hierarchy of governing documents, the Declaration is higher than the Articles of Inc. See https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/H/Hierarchy-of-Documents. If the "purpose" laid out in the Declaration happens to be different from that in the Articles of Inc, the Declaration controls.

If the current Declaration has provisions that are outside the purpose given in the Articles of Inc, the Declaration controls.

If the membership passes an amendment pertaining to one of the current provisions in the Declaration, it's entirely possible that legally, the purpose given in the Articles of Inc is irrelevant.

If push came to shove, I do not like the chances of your arguments (as presented so far) prevailing.

From my reading over the years, the argument that is most likely to prevail will be that the Declaration amendments are a radical departure from what is currently in the Declaration.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 07/13/2023 11:14 AM
Posted By TerriS6 on 07/13/2023 10:48 AM
I should have been clearer: a board can propose amendments to the declaration and even get them passed by the membership but if it doesn't have the power to enforce them - for example because the new restrictions are outside the specific purpose of the corporation -, that is a problem for the board.
I reject the premise of your argument. In the hierarchy of governing documents, the Declaration is higher than the Articles of Inc. See https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/H/Hierarchy-of-Documents. If the "purpose" laid out in the Declaration happens to be different from that in the Articles of Inc, the Declaration controls.

If the current Declaration has provisions that are outside the purpose given in the Articles of Inc, the Declaration controls.

If the membership passes an amendment pertaining to one of the current provisions in the Declaration, it's entirely possible that legally, the purpose given in the Articles of Inc is irrelevant.

If push came to shove, I do not like the chances of your arguments (as presented so far) prevailing.

From my reading over the years, the argument that is most likely to prevail will be that the Declaration amendments are a radical departure from what is currently in the Declaration.


I agree.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
In the hierarchy of governance, the law is above all the documents. The Declaration states the covenants. The power to enforce the covenants is entirely different. The power to enforce the covenants comes from the law. As quoted at the beginning, the corporation's powers are subject to any limitations of power found in the articles of incorporation. In our case those powers are very much restricted. I see nothing in other applicable law that would eliminate the requirement to conform to existing restricted powers. I see no conflict between corp code 7140 and the Davis-Stirling act.

Again, I'm talking covenants vs. powers
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Again, it's the law that gives an individual owner the right to enforce, by virtue of his ownership.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
SC Corporate laws, rules, regulations, etc. are riddled with the expression "unless Corporation Bylaws say otherwise". This is because SC believes in pretty much letting corporations do as they wish.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 07/13/2023 1:27 PM
In the hierarchy of governance, the law is above all the documents.
What do you mean by "law"? Do you mean "statutes"?

Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 07/13/2023 1:27 PM
As quoted at the beginning, the corporation's powers are subject to any limitations of power found in the articles of incorporation.
Among other things, the articles of incorporation provide a "purpose."

Why is it you think the Articles' "purpose" overrides any purpose (express or implied) in the Declaration?

The words in the Declaration matter, an they do so more than the words in the Articles of Inc. This reality is what you are up against as you try to argue with the Board or the Board's attorney that the HOA cannot do more than "maintain private roads and greenbelt of a X-lot subdivision."

At this point I think you should quote exactly what the Declaration says in its opening paragraphs. Also please consider quoting the first several mentions of the words "the association" (or similar) and the first several mentions of "the corporation" (if any) in context, in the sentence in which the phrases are used. As you do so, keep in mind that any conflict that seems to arise between the Declaration and Articles of Incorporation is resolved by deferring to the Declaration.

Perhaps you could redact the name of the HOA and post the first few pages of the Declaration. Normally these first few pages speak to the subject in which you are interested.

Lastly for now, keep in mind that people come here often saying they think they can dissolve the corporation (and so in their opinion legally terminate the HOA) by following the corporate codes instructions on this. Not so. This is a huge legal deal. For one, the covenants do not just go away when a corporation is dissolved.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
By law, I mean law, statutes of the state of California.

I didn't say the purpose overrides the Declaration. I quoted the limitation of powers.

I am not making myself clear, I guess. It doesn't matter what the declaration says if the board lacks power to enforce it. Two different animals; the covenants and the power to enforce them.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 07/13/2023 2:14 PM
It doesn't matter what the declaration says if the board lacks power to enforce it. Two different animals; the covenants and the power to enforce them.
TerriS6, I think you somehow have got yourself locked into the belief that only the Articles of Incorporation give a HOA board the power to enforce, or at least you believe this is the case here. I say: Not so.

I hear you about how limited the "purpose" is in the Articles of Incorporation. And I do find that very limited purpose interesting. But this conflicts with the reality that the Declaration is higher in the hierarchy. If the Declaration does in fact speak, one way or another, of the corporation having the powers to do xyz, the Declaration controls.

If you are trying to get your ducks in line to argue against the HOA Board and HOA attorney, then I think you need to read the Declaration carefully, starting with the opening pages. Respectfully, try to do so with an open mind. What powers do the Declaration's opening pages seem to imply that the HOA has?

I appreciate that you quoted the articles of incorporation. How come you will not quote the Declaration?
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 07/13/2023 2:14 PM
It doesn't matter what the declaration says if the board lacks power to enforce it. Two different animals; the covenants and the power to enforce them.
TerriS6, I think you somehow have got yourself locked into the belief that only the Articles of Incorporation give a HOA board the power to enforce, or at least you believe this is the case here. I say: Not so.

I hear you about how limited the "purpose" is in the Articles of Incorporation. And I do find that very limited purpose interesting. But this conflicts with the reality that the Declaration is higher in the hierarchy. If the Declaration does in fact speak, one way or another, of the corporation having the powers to do xyz, the Declaration controls.

If you are trying to get your ducks in line to argue against the HOA Board and HOA attorney, then I think you need to read the Declaration carefully, starting with the opening pages. Respectfully, try to do so with an open mind. What powers do the Declaration's opening pages seem to imply that the HOA has?

I appreciate that you quoted the articles of incorporation. How come you will not quote the Declaration?
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Please stop attributing statements to me that I never made.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
TerriS6, I said "I think... " I did not assert as fact that you contended (such-and-such).

When one of my "I think" statements appears, I would hope the reader understands it is saying "I think, but I could be mistaken... " I do not use the phrase "I think" casually.

This is not an easy medium for communicating, IMO. Especially on subjects as complicated as interpreting statutes, bylaws, articles of inc, and the Declaration.

I think you may be relying on this opening sentence of Corp Code 7140 ("Powers of Corporation"):

Subject to any limitations contained in the articles or bylaws and to compliance with other provisions of this division and any other applicable laws, a corporation, in carrying out its activities, shall have all of the powers of a natural person [et cetera]

Are you homed in on the 7140's "subject to any limitations contained in the articles" part?
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
This site explains that being a corporation is not relevant to the exercise of HOA powers: https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/A/Association-Defined.

Excerpt:

Association Defined. An "association" is defined as a "nonprofit corporation or unincorporated association created for the purpose of managing a common interest development." (Civ. Code § 4080.) It is a private organization managing private property, whether it be residential, commercial, industrial, mixed-use or otherwise.

Association Powers.Unless the governing documents provide otherwise, and regardless of whether the association is incorporated or unincorporated, the association may exercise the powers granted to a nonprofit mutual benefit corporation, as enumerated in Section 7140 of the Corporations Code. (Civ. Code § 4805.)

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
ElleN said:As one ponders this situation, I think one must keep in mind that California's HOA statute is apposite vis-a-vis the California Corporations Code. This means that, when bona fide conflicts arise between the two statutes, the HOA statute controls.

The Davis-Stirling Act at 4805(a) is in harmony with corp code 7140, my first post. 7140 makes corporate powers subject to its articles of incorporation. Our articles severely limit the exercise of corporate powers. That's a strong argument that both statutes support the restriction of powers. And it's the law that restricts which takes precedence over the declaration.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 07/13/2023 3:04 PM
ElleN said:As one ponders this situation, I think one must keep in mind that California's HOA statute is apposite vis-a-vis the California Corporations Code. This means that, when bona fide conflicts arise between the two statutes, the HOA statute controls.

The Davis-Stirling Act at 4805(a) is in harmony with corp code 7140, my first post.
I see we both landed at 4805 (per the citation within my post right above). Here is 4805 in its entirety:

Civil Code § 4805. Association's Corporate Powers.

(a) Unless the governing documents provide otherwise, and regardless of whether the association is incorporated or unincorporated, the association may exercise the powers granted to a nonprofit mutual benefit corporation, as enumerated in Section 7140 of the Corporations Code, except that an unincorporated association may not adopt or use a corporate seal or issue membership certificates in accordance with Section 7313 of the Corporations Code.

(b) The association, whether incorporated or unincorporated, may exercise the powers granted to an association in this act [meaning the California HOA statute, a.k.a. the Davis-Stirling Act].


(Bolded and underlined emphasis added by me.)

The "may" above means the association "has the legal right to, but is not required to."

I do not know what you mean by "in harmony."

My conclusion is that the homeowners' association, regardless of its corporate status, and regardless of being subject to the corporate code, has the legal right to exercise the powers given in the Declaration. This is partly (or entirely) because the D-S statute trumps the corporate code, per the rules of statutory interpretation.

This is what I believe you are up against.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
See McDermott v. Bear Film Co. (1963) 219 Cal.App.2d 607, 610-611 [“In its true sense the phrase ultra vires describes action which is beyond the purpose or power of the corporation.”];
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
ElleN said; "My conclusion is that the homeowners' association, regardless of its corporate status, and regardless of being subject to the corporate code, has the legal right to exercise the powers given in the Declaration. "

With all due respect, that's not what the law says. It says an incorporated or unincorporated association has the powers enumerated in the statute - not in the declaration.
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
The association can also amend the Articles to give additional powers.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Association can't amend the articles without authority of the membership.
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 07/13/2023 6:22 PM
Association can't amend the articles without authority of the membership.

Yes, that is the point. The members can amend the CC&Rs and the members can amend the articles to give the power to enforce (if that is needed). The point is that it is not insurmountable. The board will eventually figure it out and conduct a vote to amend the Articles.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 07/13/2023 4:45 PM
ElleN said; "My conclusion is that the homeowners' association, regardless of its corporate status, and regardless of being subject to the corporate code, has the legal right to exercise the powers given in the Declaration. "

With all due respect, that's not what the law says. It says an incorporated or unincorporated association has the powers enumerated in the statute - not in the declaration.
Are you referring to Civil Code 4805? If so, it says that, "unless the governing documents say otherwise" an "association" "may" exercise the powers given in Corp Code 7140. It further says an association "may" exercise the powers in the Davis-Stirling Act. The may means the association has the legal right to, but is not required to, exercise the aforementioned powers.

As pointed out above, in a conflict, the D-S Act trumps the Corporate Code. Also the D-S Act at 4805 says the Declaration trumps the Articles.

I need to see the Declaration. Is it in conflict? Is it not in conflict?

If you went to court, IMO a judge would never rule without reading the Declaration, precisely because of what the D-S Act says.

If you want be prepared as possible, and so want others to judge (as laypeople, but experienced ones), then I think providing to the forum at least the opening pages of the Declaration is key. (Names should be redacted from any attachment.)

You say the board is proposing a complete revision of the CC&Rs. Do you want to object to this? Do you want to use Corporate Code arguments, and only Corporate Code arguments? If so, my position remains that the argument to use is a radical departure from the present CC&Rs is unlikely to be accepted by a court. To say more, then once again, I would have to see the present CC&Rs.

Request:
When you use the phrase "the law," could you please indicate whether you mean statutes or something else?

"The law" can mean everything from statutes, to case law, to administrative agency regulations with authority deriving from statutes, and more.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 07/13/2023 5:57 AM
CA Corporations Code sec 7140. enumerates the powers of a nonprofit mutual benefit corporation which we are. It states that the corporations powers are subject to any limitations in the articles of incorporation and any other applicable laws. [snippage]

Our 1-page articles of incorporation state "The specific purpose of this corporation is to Maintain private roads and greenbelt of a X-lot subdivision."

Last section states: "Notwithstanding any of the above statements of purpose and powers, this corporation shall not, except to an insubstantial degree, engage in activities or exercise any powers that are not in furtherance of the specific purpose of this corporation."
The Davis-Stirling Act speaks to this point as follows:

Civil Code § 4280. Content of Articles of Incorporation.

(a) The articles of incorporation of an association filed with the Secretary of State shall include a statement, which shall be in addition to the statement of purposes of the corporation,that does all of the following:

(1) Identifies the corporation as an association formed to manage a common interest development under the Davis-Stirling Common Interest Development Act..
.
.
(b) The statement filed by an incorporated association with the Secretary of State pursuant to Section 8210 of the Corporations Code shall also contain a statement identifying the corporation as an association formed to manage a common interest development under the Davis-Stirling Common Interest Development Act.


Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 07/13/2023 5:57 AM
The board is having the CC&Rs completely revised but they have let out very little information as to the changes they are making which include items unrelated to road maintenance such as rental restrictions, pets, and clearing private property then billing the owner.

I was advised by an attorney who is an authority on HOA law that our articles are unusually narrow, and he explained that the power to enforce is completely separate from the covenants embodied in the Declaration.
The Davis-Stirling Act speaks to this point as well:

Civil Code § 5975. Enforcement of Governing Documents.

(a) The covenants and restrictions in the declaration shall be enforceable equitable servitudes, unless unreasonable, and shall inure to the benefit of and bind all owners of separate interests in the development. Unless the declaration states otherwise, these servitudes may be enforced by any owner of a separate interest or by the association, or by both.
.
.
.


TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
ElleN said: "As pointed out above, in a conflict, the D-S Act trumps the Corporate Code. Also the D-S Act at 4805 says the Declaration trumps the Articles. "

Our declaration currently does not conflict with our articles, and with respect to the exercise of association powers, the Davis-Stirling Act complements the Corporations Code.

Civil Code 4805(a) which I quoted above gives the association all the powers of a nonprofit mutual benefit corporation except where limited by the governing documents (our articles of incorporation with their strict limits on powers).

Corporations Code 7140 which I quoted above gives the association corporate powers subject to any limitations in the articles of incorporation.

So the Davis-Stirling Act and the Corporations Code authorize the limits of power in the articles of incorporation which, as others have said, can only be changed by a vote of the membership.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 07/16/2023 8:33 AM
Civil Code 4805(a) which I quoted above gives the association all the powers of a nonprofit mutual benefit corporation except where limited by the governing documents
I quoted 4805(a), word for word, in its entirety. See my post above. You referenced 4805(a) and attempted to paraphrase it.
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 07/16/2023 8:33 AM
(our articles of incorporation with their strict limits on powers).

Corporations Code 7140 which I quoted above gives the association corporate powers subject to any limitations in the articles of incorporation.

So the Davis-Stirling Act and the Corporations Code authorize the limits of power in the articles of incorporation which, as others have said, can only be changed by a vote of the membership.
See my most recent post, right above your most recent post. The Articles of Incorporation can also be changed by statute. The D-S Act at Civil Code 4280 does this.

The D-S Act at Civil Code 5975 speaks to enforceability of the Declaration's servitudes by the HOA.

If per chance any owner at your HOA has asserted to anyone that the HOA cannot enforce those Declaration covenants unrelated to maintaining "the private roads and greenbelt of a X-lot subdivision," then this owner is flatly, categorically, wrong. This owner needs to read and grok the D-S Act at 4280, 5975 and 4205 (hierarchy of documents).
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Whether paraphrased or verbatim, so what?

The purpose and specific purpose of the corporation are not changed by statute.

As previously stated, our current declaration doesn't conflict with the articles.

If amendments were made to declaration exceeding specific purpose, and artlcles stayed the same, association would be restricted by D/S Act and Corp Code from enforcing them.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 07/16/2023 9:58 AM
The purpose and specific purpose of the corporation are not changed by statute.
Because of Civil Code sections 4280, 5975 and 4205, and without my seeing the Declaration itself, I cannot say this is true.

If you personally feel confident that the Declaration and Articles of Incorporation at present state the same specific purpose, and if sometime in the future amendments to the declaration, that exceed this specific purpose, were voted on and passed, and the articles stayed the same, then per D-S Act sections 4280, 5975 and 4205, the amendments might be enforceable. Whether they are or not depends on the specifics of what the amendments say vis-a-vis the old Declaration.

Of course and as JeffT2 pointed out, owners and a board wanting some (but not full) insurance that the amendments would fly in court would amend both the Articles and the Declaration.
MarkB28 (New York)
Posts: 40
Posted:
TerriS6,

The sparse amount of information that the Board is releasing only DAMAGES their cause. For votes to pass their needs to be as much exposure as possible for Homeowners to discern whether the changes have any merit. Ultimately, any CCR changes have to go before a meeting of the Homeowners with likely a 2/3rds vote. That's darn difficult, not withstanding a lot of Homeowners without any clarity to the changes. If the Board is reluctant to share it could be because A. they themselves are uncertain, and B. it will only hurt their cause to restrict information.
MarkB28 (New York)
Posts: 40
Posted:
TerriS6,

The sparse amount of information that the Board is releasing only DAMAGES their cause. For votes to pass their needs to be as much exposure as possible for Homeowners to discern whether the changes have any merit. Ultimately, any CCR changes have to go before a meeting of the Homeowners with likely a 2/3rds vote. That's darn difficult, especially if a lot of Homeowners without any clarity to the changes. If the Board is reluctant to share it could be because A. they themselves are uncertain, and B. it will only hurt their cause to restrict information.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
I agree, Mark. Maybe I should be glad they are secretive.

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