A service of:
Community123.com
Professional websites for HOAs & condos, since 2004
🎁 1st year FREE for HOATalk members! →
← Return to Topics List

Treasurer won't let Pres or Vice Pres. on Bank account

Started by VickiD1 • 37 replies • 3016 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

VickiD1 (West Virginia)
Posts: 34
Posted:
I am the president of HOA and our treasurer will not let us see bank statements for the year. We are a new developement and I know nothing. Where do I start? How do we go about getting rid of this treasurer? It has taken a year for him to put one of us on the bank account. What do I do HELP PLEASE
BruceC2 (Virginia)
Posts: 54
Posted:
VickiD1,
I just went through this in Sept. with our sec/tres, when i took the presidents position i demanded to have all files brought to my house for review and the sec/tres. resisted. When the deadline came the files were brought by the asst sec/tres. with the resignation of the sec/tres come to find out she had not been paying her own fees for the last 4 yrs and it took 4 mos to get the files in order. First do not imply any misconduct, check your cc&r`s ours state any homeowner or thier represenative can review the files with a formal 2 day notice as president it is your job to know the business of the treasurer as well as any and all past business. After i reveiwed all the files i had a better understanding of 30yrs of BOD buiness.
VickiD1 (West Virginia)
Posts: 34
Posted:
Thank you for your response...not to sound dumb but what is the cc&r? We are new to this and I am lost. What was your out come? Where can I get anything letting me know what I should do or not do...the builder just handed him the money and made me president because I live here and that was it. Thank you for taking the time for a complete stanger in need....Vicki
VickiD1 (West Virginia)
Posts: 34
Posted:
Just some extra information...he wouldn't let me or vice president on the account and the bank would not cooperate either. So he removed the money and then put it back in the same bank and today added me to the account...which means if I am right I can still not see the bank statements for the past year. The vice president and I have opened a seperate account in a different bank with our money in it because he will not cooperate but we want to pay our dues...this is so scary...Thanks Bruce...
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
VickiD1: It is important for you to learn all you can from your official documents, CC&Rs, which you should have been given at settlement on your unit.
In these, you will find info on how the developer filed your association, also Bylaws, how the association is to be run (Exec. Board, terms of office, R&R, fees, etc.)

First off, is the developer still in control--or, has turnover to residents officially taken place. This is important to know and I sense that the developer is still running the show since you refer to him as 'he' and he made you President.....

Once this is determined, we can better assist you.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Vicki, if the Treasurer acts in the manner you described they should be replaced. We encourage all Board members to be signees on all accounts and provide financial statements to all Board members with an email address copies of the monthly financial statements. IMO the more open the better.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
You have authorization as president from the time you "took office.'

So the books are starting out new. You (and the rest of the Board) now have a right to see all financial reports.
BruceC2 (Virginia)
Posts: 54
Posted:
Vicki,
No strangers on this site we all have a common intrest,No such thing as dumb questions we are all here to learn and share! I have found PaulM asks direct questions and those questions are important read your By-Laws and see if the Developer has handed over the development to the homeowners first and then we can see what you need to do.As President you control all the questions to be answered and dont be afraid to demand answers you are the President of a not for profit Corporation I am sure.As for my turn out I have a real good Sec/Tres she and I are on the bank account and I can go online at anytime and view account activity all statements come to my house I am listed with the State Corperation Commision as being the office for our POA so I should see eveything first.
VickiD1 (West Virginia)
Posts: 34
Posted:
The property has been turned over to us but they sent the check for the balance of the dues to the treasure and he has put my name on there today. After a year he still refuses to contact or add the Vice President. None of us know each other but the vice and I are very concerned about this. The funny thing is, is that he closed the account and reopened it a few days later at the same bank. Now I can see everything for the past month but not the past year...sounds crazy to me. I have launched and investigation at the bank because the treasurer only want me to deal with one person at the bank. I asked our lawyer what the cc&r is he has no idea. We have something called tha Artical of Corporation and Reservations and Restrictive Covenants could this be something like the cc&r? This lawyer also told me I could come in and look at the law books...I guess I will need to take some law classes just to keep my neighborhood nice and to atleast look at a bank statment...I Will Not Give Up...Thank you everyone for your help...Please don't give up on me...Vicki
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
VickiD1: Here I am with more questions....!!! Sorry, but we are still not clear on who 'he' is, and has the association gone through a turnover. Don't know if you mean your 'property/unit' has been turned over to you (settlement)
or the entire assn. has been turned over to resident control.

You state there are 3-Board members...but were they elected by residents to be on the Exec. Board? or appointed by the Developer? The CC&Rs document (Covenant Restrictions) is what you need to study especially the Bylaws where it will describe the developer's role before turnover and after. Every unit owner and member of the Association should have received a copy of the official documents at purchase of your home, since this is your Association's 'Rule Book' for compliance to your assn's restrictions.

VickiD1 (West Virginia)
Posts: 34
Posted:
Well just talked to the Developers Representative and there are no by laws. We are to create them. I am lost we do have what is called ristrictions and covenants but nothing about the voting process or anything. Where do you even begin?
VickiD1 (West Virginia)
Posts: 34
Posted:
sorry I spell wrong when I get upset ......"restrictions"
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:
Vicki,
Do you have Articles of Incorporation? In other words, are you incorporated in the State of Virginia as a "Not For Profit Corp? Does the State of Virginia have Homeowner Laws and Regulations? Virginia people, can you give us the site or numbers for the State laws if there are any?

VickiD1 (West Virginia)
Posts: 34
Posted:
We are in the state of West Virginia and the lawyer that represented the developer said that we can come in and read his law books. Is this how it is usually done? I am in the process of contacting all members to have us all meet. Any suggestions on how we can handle this sensitive problem? I do not want home owners to worry about their money if I don't have too. Thank you DonnaS. I have read other responses to people and it seems you are very good at this...thanks for taking time for us...Vicki
MichaelJ3 (Virginia)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Wow you are in quite a spot. It seems thats you will have to start at ground zero so to speak. You can take this as an opportunity to mold your board to work more smoothly. I think that it is good to talk to the lawyer and see if he can provide you with guidance and possibly a copy of condo assocation law binders for West Virginia. Also you may need to hold an executive session to explain this situation on how the treasurer position is going to be handled from here going forward. Once this is explained the home owners should understand and be compassionate.

I am a new board member (treasurer) for a 190 unit condo unit and one of the first things I did was to gain read only access to our bank account information. This should not have been a secret because it is the assocation finances as a whole.
VickiD1 (West Virginia)
Posts: 34
Posted:
Thank you for the compassion...that is a great idea. I will make an appointment with a lawyer and start from ground zero. This should not be so complicated...I mean we have only 15 properties and I have to get the one treasurer that doesn't want to play as a team....Do you have any idea how a proxy letter should look? Yeah I am at zero...
KrystaT (Florida)
Posts: 58
Posted:
Hi Vicki, I am a newbie pres. too! I'm not an expert like some of these people, but here's my 1 cent. If you are unsure about the treasurer and the bank account, you can try to make an appt. with the pres. or a supervisor at the bank. They will be able to give you the old account info. You have a right to see that info. It would be a good idea to go with the V.P. and any offical papers you have. You mentioned he only wants you to talk to one person, if you feel something is just not right with that person, you can even visit a different branch and talk to someone. It's sounds kinda fishy to me....or maybe the guy is a complete control freak.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Boy, did they leave you in a lurch . . .!!!

1) Contact a real estate attorney and have a sit down with him about what to do next.

2) Then go to the developer's attorney and get YOUR paperwork. (He has no right to withhold his client's paperwork that now belongs to you)

3) You need to study federal, state HOA statutes, your own Articles of Incorporation, your CCR's, your bylaws, and some basic parliamentary procedure for running the meetings. If you don't have these, see Number 1.

4) Your Board needs to understand the process of board dynamics. Goodle "Board Roles" and see if you need to have a study session on who does what.

Good luck! there are wonderful people on this board who can walk you thru most things . . .
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Vicki,
Let's take a look at the bright side of this equation.

It was very fortunate someone like your got stuck with all this.
When you have your open meeting or town meeting, act like the president, you are going to know more than most folks. Invite comments from your owners and anyone that speaks, as them to help.
I am sure there are associations in you area somewhere, talk to them.
If you have not hired your lawyer, don't, until after your meeting.
For information purposes CC&R's stand for Conditions, Covenants and Restriction's. Means in general, all your documents. Don't forget to pay a visit to your local Court house and ask about any documents on file there. You can usually get a lot of help there. UIse e-mail to communicate with your owners. Assign someone the job of building up an e-mail listing. Get some support and friends around you. Keep you expenditures at a minimum and get straightened out internally before planing much ahead.

Remember, you are not going to learn this in one fell sweep but you will learn in bits and pieces. Keep good record on what you do, and who is involved. Ask help and most of all your job and responssibility, as it is to all owners, is to the association, not to individuals.
VickiD1 (West Virginia)
Posts: 34
Posted:
Thank you for all the advice... I am doing everything mentioned. I did find out that there are no bylaws and no CC&Rs so I have to really start from scratch. It was mentioned that I should wait until after our meeting to go to a lawyer. How will that benefit all of us? Open and honest is how I want things to run but I don't want to scare anyone especially some of our seniors, any advice there. What a great group of people everyone is here...there should be a reward for such honest hearted people.....well I guess that reward could be sleep...I hope to get some soon...THANKS
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
VickiD1: If there are no officially recorded documents as CC&Rs (Covenant Restrictions), then what gives you the idea you are recorded as an Association with restrictions for members?
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
VickiD,
If it was me that said don't get a lawyer yet or not, there are good reasons not to. You are the president but you are in a tough spot, so keep good records and write everything done. It's not CYA, it's the smart thing to do. Also, the smart thing to do at your meeting is to Say: "look folks, this is where we are at. I am willing to do this job if each and everyone agrees. I will try and set this association up so it can be managed and I have some knowledge of what needs to be done. I want anyone to feel free to make suggests and also volunteer to help those that are going to do the work, and there is a lot of work to be done. If anyone has any personnel experience, ever lived or worked in an HOA, or has any property management experience, we can use you. Anyone that has a good computer background or a legal background, we can use you also. I need some of you to volunteer to sit down with us and talk this over.
I want to have a plan in three weeks that is going to set the course for our first year in operation. I need to know more about the association before I think about spending money for anything that is not absolutely necessary. Then open the floor for comments and see what you have.
Push hard for a big turnout, as hard as you can push, then talk about a lawyer later.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Very nice Robert. Be kind and just short of begging and hopefully someone will feel the sincerity and need of the situation.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Donna,
I remember in my younger days I did a little begging also. But that is a different story. But when it worked, I wasn't sorry.
VickiD1 (West Virginia)
Posts: 34
Posted:
MASTER THE ART OF DIPLOMACY....that sounds very effective. Good news he put me on the account but let me know that he will handle all correspondences to the home owners and I should not over step my job boundaries...is this comman. The treasurer is telling me how he wants this run. I feel like I am in the twilight zone. With no cc&r only art of cov. can he tell me how to do my job?
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
VickiD1: Is 'HE' someone who the developer appointed to the Treasurer role, or is 'HE' a resident of the community like you? Has there been an official 'turnover' to residents? This is of paramount importance and you need to determine.

VickiD1 (West Virginia)
Posts: 34
Posted:
The Treasurer is no part of the developer. We are all property owners. I am the only one that lives in this new sub division. The developer has made it clear we are on our own. All we have to go on is Articles of Incorporation,WV Certificate of Incorporation and Minutes electing the three of us into our position. The money and all the documents were turned over to the Treasurer and it took me a year+ to get access to see what was going on.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Hi Vicki,
I just started to read about your problems getting started and I read on your previous post that you DO have Protective Covenants along with your Articles of Inc. so that is a huge burdeon off of your shoulders. You did not reccognize when someone asked about your CC&Rs. The Covenants are the ruling documents as to what is allowed within your Developement, including some behavior and owner responsibilities. It is from those covenants that you write some of your bylaws and your Articles of Inc will tell you about association functions such as voting and requirements of meetings and Directors etc.
VickiD1 (West Virginia)
Posts: 34
Posted:
Thank you Donna I have also read your previous work...good stuff. There is only one paragraph that states that there is to be A President, A Vice President and Secretary/Treasurer. No voting procedures, and basic laws like (don't laugh) no poultry, no farm animals and no trailers. This area is in a very country setting. I am the first to build and live here and now there is just one other family that lives here.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Vicki,
How many total members are there so far? How many lots will there be when you are totally built out? And why did you have a turnover way so early? I am a little confused and that will help to sort things out for you.
VickiD1 (West Virginia)
Posts: 34
Posted:
There are only 15 properties. There are 12 owners that own all 15 of that 3 of us are board members. See this area did not want the responsibility of this road. That is why so easy to turn into HOA and then we have to take care of it. Which my husband and the one other person living here are doing. Plowing, cutting grass and fallen trees...basic stuff...at our expense.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Vicki,
If it were me, I would start looking into dissolving the HOA because of your size. How much common area do you have? Do not count the roads as they possibly could be turned over to your county or township. It might be something to consider as many small HOAs with little or no common property find it easier to live with what they have. And of course, there is the big issue of what your Articles of Inc state.
VickiD1 (West Virginia)
Posts: 34
Posted:
There are 15 properties all sold. 12 owners and of that 3 are board members. I am the only one living here on the board. There is only one other family here. So we take care of everything at our expense. We alternate cutting grass and my husband plows road and takes care of fallen trees basic stuff.
PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
VickiD1: Are owners/members of the HOA(?) required to pay an assessment fee to cover common expenses as detailed in the documents? Who is the check for payment made out to? and where does it get mailed, to an organization, Prop.Mgr. Company?

VickiD1 (West Virginia)
Posts: 34
Posted:
The money is sent to the treasurer and written to the HOA. We pay a yearly expense to take care of the road maintenance, etc... However my husband has been doing that at our expense because we have not been allowed near the account. Really we don't mind but it scares me that the checks and balances that are set in place are being hindered because of this situation. All checks are mailed to treasurer, all checks are made out to our HOA and the treasurer has all banking information.
TracyT (Maryland)
Posts: 228
Posted:
Hi there,

First, Vicki said "We have something called tha Artical of Corporation and Reservations and Restrictive Covenants" and some one else confirmed that this document/s is what we generally call the CC&R around here.

The/se document/s “should” define the association including all of the lots and common areas and the board's responsibility to maintain the common area and enforce the covenants. They should also define voting in terms class A and B members (don't get too tied up in that right now), what has to be voted on, what % of homeowners are required for voting such as CC&R changes, how much and which type insurance to carry and of course any use restrictions “no poultry, no farm animals and no trailers” (FYI common in HOAs), etc., etc. Have you read these cover to cover? e.g. your developer may be responsibile for the maintenance of the common areas or at the least you and your neighbor may be entitled to reimbursement.

Some posters here don't have by-laws and while they are helpful they may not be necessary. Posters can definitely help with operating procedures and frankly there are books available - you might consider Gloria M's for example - but lets be sure we all understand the basics first.

Second, where are the rest of the 12 homeowners? Will their homes be built soon or are they waiting for retirement in 10, 20, 30 years?

Third, how did you get “elected to the board”? By the other 12 members/owners or did the developer “appoint you” himself?

Finally, I think it was Robert who had indicated that you should "not commit" to hiring an attorney at this point and he is absolutely right. But, you had said the developer's attorney was willing to work with you and lend you his law books etc. This you should definitely do. In fact, until we find out exactly your situation make very nice with this lawyer.

Please help us help you and provide some details to the questions posed. Thanks.

Tracy
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Tracy,
You make several good points in your post Tracy.

We do tend to get misdirected from the original post and automatically start jumping ahead or assuming too much. However, that is normal for this kind of format, at least it seems to be here.
I suspect it is just the reactions different people have to the same words. Best case I suppose would be to have a monitor for each post to keep things orderly. That is not going to happen so we just stumble along. It the Navy they always had a expression years ago about teaching new members about their new jobs. That was, "If you throw enough crap up against the wall, some of it is bound to stick."
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Wow. Rough scenario. It always amazes me that people think they can get so controlling over money and information that doesn't belong to them.

One question: how much are your dues?

Second question: what do the dues cover? In other words, what, exactly, are you all supposed to be paying for?

Banks are pretty tough these days. I had to take the minutes of our board meeting that said the board approved me (the treasurer) to take possession of a debit card. Even though I was the one who started the account.

Plus, any time we change officers, we need to take the board minutes that show exactly who was allowed to sign on the account.

So maybe one of the things you might want to do is to call a board meeting and you and the vice president make a motion to allow you both to see all past financial records, then take that to the bank and make them show you the previous accounts.

Good luck. Hope it all works out well and that this is just a misunderstanding.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here

Terms of Use and Privacy Statement