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LlW (Oregon)
Posts: 17
Posted:
New member here again, 2nd question. What is the process, and what are the repercussions for HOA Board members that you know for a fact are regularly conducting 'illegal' Board meetings. So much so, that they call them the Illegal Monday Morning Meeting. The Chairperson (aka President) starts a call, and one by one, conferences the rest of the Board members in. Is there anyone that should be alerted? What, if any, repercussions are there for the Chairperson and the Board members that knowingly participate in these weekly meetings. (Owners are definitely not notified, and there are not minutes. No voting actually takes place in these meetings, but decisions on actions to take before the next officially scheduled Board meeting do take place during these meetings.) I had suggested that 'workshops' could be held between the regularly scheduled monthly Board meetings, to discuss topics that would be covered and voted on during the monthly meetings. That way, the monthly meetings wouldn't go on for hours and hours. We did this once, and owners attended. I thought it actually went really well, and the Chairperson let the Owners participate as well. Then, after one successful meeting, it was turned into the weekly 'illegal' meeting. Thank you for your expertise, to a new member here, and a new Board member as well.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LlW on 07/02/2023 6:31 PM
New member here again, 2nd question. What is the process, and what are the repercussions for HOA Board members that you know for a fact are regularly conducting 'illegal' Board meetings. So much so, that they call them the Illegal Monday Morning Meeting. The Chairperson (aka President) starts a call, and one by one, conferences the rest of the Board members in. Is there anyone that should be alerted? What, if any, repercussions are there for the Chairperson and the Board members that knowingly participate in these weekly meetings.
Oregon statutes require Board meetings to be open to owners. Your COAs bylaws might also require open board meetings.

It does not matter that no votes are taken at this Monday morning meeting. This meeting is supposed to be open to owners.

Please proceed to this Oregon Condo Act site: https://www.oregonlegislature.gov/bills_laws/ors/ors100.html . Search the site for the word "enforcement." After reading the three sections that use the word "enforcement," report back here with any questions you have. If you cannot take the latter steps, then you should hire an attorney.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
LIW, these Monday meetings are, indeed, illegal. You may not even discuss board business let alone "decide!" Your board meetings must be open to owners who must be given the xx-hour notice that you wrote in your last post. That the chair phones directors one at a time, or your idea of "workshops" similarly are NOT legal workarounds. Owners must be able to see and hear the board's decision-making processes.

I don't know about Oregon, buy typically, you're on your own to try to persuade the rest of the Board to follow the laws. If your Board and HOA attorney get along well, s/he may be able to persuade the Board to stop acting illegally by having secret, hidden meetings that Owners cannot see and hear.

That way, the monthly meetings wouldn't go on for hours and hours. Your Board's or chair's excuse for breaking the law is: "That way, the monthly meetings wouldn't go on for hours and hours." Why would monthly meetings last so long???? Does your HOA have a lot of complicated items?

You have about 100 homes in your HOA, but no community manager (here called property mgr. or PM). I suspect that's one of your problems.

Please tell us about the kinds of amenities and common area items that the HOA is responsible for. Pool? clubhouse? playgrounds? parks? Who manages, say, the landscapers? The pool guy? In other words, why do your meetings need to be so often?? Is it because directors do all of the work?

Who collects owners assessment payments? Who puts together a report for you directors every month about your expenditures to review at board meetings ? Do you have a web site for Owners? Are there any committees? Who makes architectural request decisions? Who sends notices to owners if they violate the rules?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
In SC that Monday Morning "discussion" would be fine as long as no motions nor voting take place.
LlW (Oregon)
Posts: 17
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 07/03/2023 2:36 PM
LIW, these Monday meetings are, indeed, illegal. You may not even discuss board business let alone "decide!" Your board meetings must be open to owners who must be given the xx-hour notice that you wrote in your last post. That the chair phones directors one at a time, or your idea of "workshops" similarly are NOT legal workarounds. Owners must be able to see and hear the board's decision-making processes.

The workshops (well, only one workshop) were open to the Owners, and Owners did attend, and even participate in the one and only workshop that was held.

I don't know about Oregon, buy typically, you're on your own to try to persuade the rest of the Board to follow the laws. If your Board and HOA attorney get along well, s/he may be able to persuade the Board to stop acting illegally by having secret, hidden meetings that Owners cannot see and hear.

That way, the monthly meetings wouldn't go on for hours and hours. Your Board's or chair's excuse for breaking the law is: "That way, the monthly meetings wouldn't go on for hours and hours." Why would monthly meetings last so long???? Does your HOA have a lot of complicated items?

We have had a TUMULTUOUS last couple of years. Lot's and lot's and lot's of issues. Managed by an external 3rd party so-called property management company, and it was a nightmare. We ended our contract with them last month, and are trying to get back to our prior management model (internally hired, live on-site, management team).

You have about 100 homes in your HOA, but no community manager (here called property mgr. or PM). I suspect that's one of your problems.

We now have an on-site property management team back on-site.

Please tell us about the kinds of amenities and common area items that the HOA is responsible for. Pool? clubhouse? playgrounds? parks? Who manages, say, the landscapers? The pool guy? In other words, why do your meetings need to be so often?? Is it because directors do all of the work?

Pool, very small playground. We have a maintenance man, maintenance helper, landscaping contractor, and hired staff of cleaners (38 of the units participate in a 'rental pool' for short-term vacation rentals), as well as our newly hired hotel manager husband/wife team.

Who collects owners assessment payments? Who puts together a report for you directors every month about your expenditures to review at board meetings ? Do you have a web site for Owners? Are there any committees? Who makes architectural request decisions? Who sends notices to owners if they violate the rules?

Much like the 3rd party 'management' organization that was brought in for the last two years, management of HOA fees, assessment payments, reports and expenditures was also outsourced, an Owners on-line 'portal', etc., and that didn't go well either. Wrong company, just like the wrong management company. So this Board has been trying to 'right the ship', and there have been monthly meetings, which were just not enough to be able to make all the decisions that had to be made in a short 90 period of time (the length of time we had to provide to the prior management company to not renew our contract with them). We have a budget committeee (now), but that is the only committee at this time. We are a 100 year old property, and no architectural requests other than the maintenance of our current historic design. (We are not yet on the Historical Registry, but that is being discussed.) Violations were supposed to have been addressed by the prior 3rd party, but were not, so that will have to start back over again with the new on-site management team.
LlW (Oregon)
Posts: 17
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 07/03/2023 6:56 AM
Posted By LlW on 07/02/2023 6:31 PM
New member here again, 2nd question. What is the process, and what are the repercussions for HOA Board members that you know for a fact are regularly conducting 'illegal' Board meetings. So much so, that they call them the Illegal Monday Morning Meeting. The Chairperson (aka President) starts a call, and one by one, conferences the rest of the Board members in. Is there anyone that should be alerted? What, if any, repercussions are there for the Chairperson and the Board members that knowingly participate in these weekly meetings.
Oregon statutes require Board meetings to be open to owners. Your COAs bylaws might also require open board meetings.

It does not matter that no votes are taken at this Monday morning meeting. This meeting is supposed to be open to owners.

Please proceed to this Oregon Condo Act site: https://www.oregonlegislature.gov/bills_laws/ors/ors100.html . Search the site for the word "enforcement." After reading the three sections that use the word "enforcement," report back here with any questions you have. If you cannot take the latter steps, then you should hire an attorney.

I have read all of the sections referenced, as well as each section within those 3 sections, but I didn't actually find any information on who this should be reported to (although I'm guessing with would be the Secretary of State), and what the repercussions would be, again other than perhaps a $1000 fine per incident, but I don't know charged to who). Would anything happen to the Board members that knowingly participated in these 'illegal' meetings?

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LlW on 07/04/2023 9:52 AM

Please proceed to this Oregon Condo Act site: https://www.oregonlegislature.gov/bills_laws/ors/ors100.html . Search the site for the word "enforcement." After reading the three sections that use the word "enforcement," report back here with any questions you have. If you cannot take the latter steps, then you should hire an attorney.

I have read all of the sections referenced, as well as each section within those 3 sections, but I didn't actually find any information on who this should be reported to (although I'm guessing with would be the Secretary of State), and what the repercussions would be, again other than perhaps a $1000 fine per incident, but I don't know charged to who). Would anything happen to the Board members that knowingly participated in these 'illegal' meetings?
LlW, you will need an attorney to help you. Here's why:

You say this property is historical and some 100 years old. The Oregon Condominium act applies only to those associations that have legally indicated that they are subject to the act. See the "Definitions" section of the Oregon Condo Act. Figuring out whether your association is subject to the Act is beyond many laypersons' abilities.

If per chance the governing documents (declaration et cetera) subjected this property to the Oregon Condo Act, then this inter alia applies:

ENFORCEMENT

100.900 Civil penalty. (1) In addition to any other penalties provided by law, the Real Estate Commissioner may impose a civil penalty for violation of the provisions of ORS 100.015, 100.635 to 100.730 and 100.740 to 100.780 or any of the rules adopted thereunder. No civil penalty shall exceed $1,000 per violation.


It appears to me you do not know the Real Estate Commissioner from the Secretary of State. You will need an attorney to explain this to you.

I do not expect anything to happen personally to the directors. E.g. they will not be forced to pay from their own pockets for any fines. Instead, a court would simply either enforce the association's bylaws (with regard to meetings et cetera); enforce the Condo Act; or both. The cost for the association to defend itself (with an attorney) will be paid collectively by the members, via the association's bank account.

If your association is not subject to the condo act, then it's possible that meetings do not need to be open to owners.

See how complicated this is?

Hire an attorney.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
What/who are these people? The assoc. also has, '"... our newly hired hotel manager husband/wife team." Do they hold nay kind of certification? They live on your premises? Are they direct employees of your association? Or do they work for a company? Is the maintenance person a director employee of your assoc. or does he & his asst. work for a company?

ElleN provides a lot of info IF you want to get some else to "make" your board behave legally, and IF you're subject to the Condo Act.

But think about it this way. As a director, your first obligation is to act in the best interests of your Association. This means, imo, before you even think about wading into a legal mess, that will get everyone mad at you and cause turmoil--very bad for your assoc.--you try to urge your fellow directors to follow the open meeting statutes. You're telling us that the one board meeting that was held and was successful was called a "workshop." Why? It was simply an open meeting of the board conducted the way it should be!

Remind your fellow directors how well it turned out. Remind them that they must follow statute or some owners could come very angry and take legal steps Here, you're finally getting things back on an even keel. Let's not threaten that, you might say. Get the drift, LIW? If monthly meetings aren't bough right now, schedule two a month.

Again, who puts together the agenda and the materials for your board meetings?

I must say, I don't recall ever seeing on this forum an HOA with a STVR element of several units within it. It seems like it could cause a lot of confusion in your finances ???

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