Ring Doorbells

Started by MaryP24 • 23 replies • 1323 views

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MaryP24 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 68

Posted:

There are discussions among our owners regarding the installation of a ring doorbell and owners privacy.
Are there any suggestions how such case has been handled by your boards?

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaryP24 on 07/02/2023 9:56 AM
There are discussions among our owners regarding the installation of a ring doorbell and owners privacy.
Are there any suggestions how such case has been handled by your boards?

M initial blush is it must be directed/aimed to their property and their property alone.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

It may make a difference if this is an HOA or a condo community.

For condos, the rules of thumb is that people have no expectation of privacy when they're on the common elements. In an HOA, it can be difficult for the camera to capture the front porch without also capturing the sidewalk, street, and possibly houses across the street.

There may potentially be issues if the doorbell is capturing conversations and you're in a state that requires two-party consent.

I haven't heard of any lawsuits over this. But so many people nowadays are aware of Ring doorbells or similar devices that it's not reasonable to expect privacy when you're walking past someone's home. My personal rule of thumb is to assume I may be under surveillance when I'm outside my own four walls. If it isn't doorbells, it's mobile phones - it's the world we live in.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 07/02/2023 11:30 AM
It may make a difference if this is an HOA or a condo community.

For condos, the rules of thumb is that people have no expectation of privacy when they're on the common elements. In an HOA, it can be difficult for the camera to capture the front porch without also capturing the sidewalk, street, and possibly houses across the street.

There may potentially be issues if the doorbell is capturing conversations and you're in a state that requires two-party consent.

I haven't heard of any lawsuits over this. But so many people nowadays are aware of Ring doorbells or similar devices that it's not reasonable to expect privacy when you're walking past someone's home. My personal rule of thumb is to assume I may be under surveillance when I'm outside my own four walls. If it isn't doorbells, it's mobile phones - it's the world we live in.

I could be wrong, but the two party consent clause gets tossed out the window because the object of the Ring doorbell is for lawful personal security at home. any conversations or images captured is subsequent to
the devices lawful purpose and no right to privacy is expected. On the other hand if the camera or recording device is intentionally set to capture people waling on a public or common element right of way, then that is a whole
different story.

There is a house on my street that has their camera set to motion detect every time someone walks on the sidewalk. I know this because every time I pass this house a hear a audible whistle. It is the bird chirp that twitterer used
when you sent a tweet. Not much the HOA can do about it.

MikeB23 (Louisiana)
Posts: 109

Posted:

I don't have Ring Doorbells. but I do have Ring camera watching the balcony walkways leading to my condo. Anything I can see out my window is fair game as far as I'm concerned.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

I live in a one party State.
Technically, I have zero right to record a conversation I am not part of (at least not without permission of one of the parties).

Therefore, I turned the microphones on the cameras off.

Unfortunately, that does not appear to be an option with the ring cameras at this time.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

It seems strange no one's googled this to see what type of stuff's out there on this subject - otherwise, they could look at stuff like this:

https://ring.com/privacy

Or this

https://www.makeuseof.com/why-you-should-not-get-ring-video-doorbell/

And especially this:

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/07/privacy-loophole-ring-doorbell-00084979

Not to mention:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/may/31/amazon-ring-doorbell-spying-ftc#:~:text=A%20former%20employee%20of%20Amazon's,the%20company%20over%20privacy%20violations.

As you can see, there are ups and downs to anything, so you can start by looking at this stuff and perhaps running a homeowner poll to see what issues people are concerned about. Between that and consulting the police and your association attorney, you might have the beginning of a policy, or table the entire matter and see what sort of problems come up. if there aren't any major issues right now, it may be best to leave it alone until it becomes a problem.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568

Posted:

Quote:

Are you condos, Townhouses, or single family homes?

MikeB23 (Louisiana)
Posts: 109

Posted:

An 1800's hotel converted into condos.

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

Since Ring doorbells are installed in public view, I highly doubt they'd run afoul of anti-wiretapping laws. But, I agree that they are awfully "nosy" technology and I'd wager the data isn't all that safe.

Oh, and Oregon's anti-wiretaping/hidden microphone law was just tossed as unconstitutional by the Ninth Circuit......eh.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Below is a good article about smart doorbells written by an attorney. It basically says that in most cases they are not an issue. They do mention that in some cases there may be issues with State laws but those would be rare. I don't know when the article was written.

Doorbell Cameras: Legal Issues and Controversies

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KellyM3 on 07/05/2023 10:19 PM
Since Ring doorbells are installed in public view, I highly doubt they'd run afoul of anti-wiretapping laws. But, I agree that they are awfully "nosy" technology and I'd wager the data isn't all that safe.

Oh, and Oregon's anti-wiretaping/hidden microphone law was just tossed as unconstitutional by the Ninth Circuit......eh.

For those that may be interested:

Ninth Circuit guts Oregon recording law: The ruling overturns a state law passed to ensure that journalists have the consent of any individual they record.

MaryP24 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 68

Posted:

Hello, JohnC46

Thank you for your input!

MaryP24 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 68

Posted:

Hi, CathyA3

We are a condo building of 190 units. Yes, we are in a state that requires two-party consent.

Valuable points leaving in a technological society!

I agree with you that there is no privacy in common areas since there are surveillance cameras.

Thank you so much!

MaryP24 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 68

Posted:

LetA,

Thank you for your comments!

MaryP24 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 68

Posted:

PatJ1,

We are a condo building of 190 units.

Thanks!

MaryP24 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 68

Posted:

KellyM3,

Thank you for your input!

MaryP24 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 68

Posted:

TimB4,

Thank you so much for the attorney's blod on Doorbell Cameras as well as for the link to the Oregon Ruling Law! Excellent resources!

MaryP24 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 68

Posted:

HeiliaH,

Great links and I like the owners' poll to find out on the potential concerns they may have as well as the other options you state!

Thank you!

MaryP24 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 68

Posted:

TimB4,

Sorry for misspelling blod VS block😞.

MaryP24 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 68

Posted:

MikeB23,

Good point! Thank you!

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Privacy, speaking of which. We're condos in an elevator building. My neighbor, a woman in her late 60s, had a much younger boyfriend for quite a while. She giggled to me once that he would get "frisky" in the elevators. I laughed too. I hated to spoil the moment, but as delicately as possible suggested that perhaps she hadn't noticed the cameras in the elevators. She had not, and was very embarrassed because our 24/7 security officers view their monitors all of the time.

Heard it thru the grapevine that these officers have viewed some amazing conduct in the elevators.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 07/14/2023 1:24 PM
Privacy, speaking of which. We're condos in an elevator building. My neighbor, a woman in her late 60s, had a much younger boyfriend for quite a while. She giggled to me once that he would get "frisky" in the elevators. I laughed too. I hated to spoil the moment, but as delicately as possible suggested that perhaps she hadn't noticed the cameras in the elevators. She had not, and was very embarrassed because our 24/7 security officers view their monitors all of the time.

Heard it thru the grapevine that these officers have viewed some amazing conduct in the elevators.

From someone that watched surveillance monitors and some in elevators, WHOAH BABY!!!

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