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RockyR (Arizona)
Posts: 3
Posted:
I am the Standards Director of a ten year old community of 9500 single family homes. We keep files on each home, including landscaping, change in ownership, non-compliant issues etc. I would like to find a way to scan these files and keep all future files on the computer. Does anyone have any suggestions?
GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022
Posted:
RockyR - Time to get a good shredding machine!! : ) You present an interesting challenge to many associations; the efficient storage of association related documents. Even if you had 1 page per SF home that would be an enormous amount of information to scan. Seems to me the first step, prior to scanning is to eliminate unnecessary material based upon a preset criteria. Such as any material that pre-dates a certain date or any material that pertained to more than two previous owners of the same parcel, or something to that effect. If the information is tax related in any way you would have to base the criteria upon tax law. See my point? After you accomplish that first step I would create a spreadsheet in Excel and write any relevant information in a table of some sort.
JanP1 (Arizona)
Posts: 76
Posted:
I respectfully disagree.

I personally have been the subject of the shredder - albeit by a nasty board member who came after us because a previous manager was of the shredder mentality destroyed the approval for my ARC improvements - I had our approval right in the same file at my house with the building permits obtained to do the work.

There are companies that will scan and create searchable files of records. Many management companies are going totally paperless (bless them one and all!!!!) Discuss shredding with your insurance agent as they are the ones who will have to defend your board if you decide to shred. I would word search a document scanning service and discuss what capabilities they can provide.
GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022
Posted:
JanP1 - You disagree with what? You think it's necessary to keep outdated files, ARC changes, and materials that aren't relevant to current ownership or the association? I wasn't suggesting anyone destroy relevant documents, if you read I was stating that a criteria be established for keeping records. At some point however, a "thinning out" becomes necessary, and a shredder is the most appropriate so as to protect names, etc. To suggest otherwise means that an association must keep all records to infinity. That's unrealistic and one big storage facility. Even electronic files degrade or can be deleted by accident over time. Even most real estate brokers are required to keep documents of closes and non-closes for certain periods of time. With all do respect your scenario of a nasty board member isn't really relevant to this non-hostile situation and methodical question and suggestion.
JanP1 (Arizona)
Posts: 76
Posted:
Thank you for your view point Gerald. My example was exactly an ARC approval that was 10 years old. My suggestion still stands that it is a matter to discuss with your HOA's insurance agent and legal counsel and get their input as well as the suggestions you made. Then if it ever does come back to bit you it's on their errors and ommissions insurance, not the Board's.
GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022
Posted:
JanP1 - In your scenario the ARC approval was 10 years old. If it were up to me the criteria would be to document the ARC approval in a spreadsheet, or keep ARC approvals and denials on file. Those are critical matters even when ownership changes. However, the new owners by purchasing the home also inherit the existing alterations that required ARC approval. The transition of paper to electronic creates an interesting, delicate, and methodical balance. One way or another someone is going to have to literally wade their way through the material, paper or otherwise. It's very easy to do that in an excel spreadsheet or database, but the info is only as good as it is entered. Might be more wise to just keep what exists in paper form and move forward creating everything electronically, and slowly convert the paper to digital over time with some dedicated objective (unbiased) volunteers with clear instruction. Sorry to hear you encountered a board member with an obvious bent towards being controversial!! : )
JanP1 (Arizona)
Posts: 76
Posted:
I'm not a fan of wading through paper. I still think it is worth at least investigating. Only because when interviewing management companies, I saw in action a scanning machine that took volumes of paper, scanned it and made it searchable quick as a blink. The operator just took the document and named it. So technologically, I think it can be done. And if the file degrades... well wouldn't the scanning company have some responsibility. Technology changes, it doesn't hurt to check and see what it costs. Excuse me while I go check the carbon on my memograph machine ;)lol
RaymondC (Minnesota)
Posts: 64
Posted:
We are a small 77 member community who have converted all our documents to PDF files on computer. Some were discarded, but most were scanned with a document feeder on an office Multifunction machine. It took an afternoon twice, to scan a bit over 8,000 documents. They consume about 300 MB on a disk. We have extensive backup, and off site storage of backups as well. As secretary, I did all the work and maintain it all now. I distribute copies of all documents each month to each board membe on a cd or a flash drive. They are organized by various folders in a sensible manner that works for us.

The originals were shredded. The management company also has a copy of all documents as well.

Is is quite easy to find an older document and print it as needed. We have 12 years of records on this system.

Good luck.....
hoatalk (California)
Posts: 603
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RaymondC on 01/15/2008 7:27 PM
We are a small 77 member community who have converted all our documents to PDF files on computer. Some were discarded, but most were scanned with a document feeder on an office Multifunction machine. It took an afternoon twice, to scan a bit over 8,000 documents. They consume about 300 MB on a disk. We have extensive backup, and off site storage of backups as well. As secretary, I did all the work and maintain it all now. I distribute copies of all documents each month to each board membe on a cd or a flash drive. They are organized by various folders in a sensible manner that works for us.

The originals were shredded. The management company also has a copy of all documents as well.

Is is quite easy to find an older document and print it as needed. We have 12 years of records on this system.

Good luck.....

Just curious: How did you categorize 8000 documents so quickly? Did you do mass scans into specific folders or did you have to enter names, categories, etc for each of 8000 scans? Thanks.

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RockyR (Arizona)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Thank you one and all. I've been advised by legal not to discard anything. Each file,has about thirty sheets of information, about 285,000 total, ranging from 8 1/2 x 11 to landscape plans of about 23 x 35 inches. There has to be a company out there that can convert this information. If not, maybe I've found a nitch to develope. As a former Board member, and now a Director, converting these files makes a lot of sence. If I do find a sorce, I'll pass it on. Rocky
GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RockyR on 01/16/2008 10:34 AM
Thank you one and all. I've been advised by legal not to discard anything. Each file,has about thirty sheets of information, about 285,000 total, ranging from 8 1/2 x 11 to landscape plans of about 23 x 35 inches. There has to be a company out there that can convert this information. If not, maybe I've found a nitch to develope. As a former Board member, and now a Director, converting these files makes a lot of sence. If I do find a sorce, I'll pass it on. Rocky

RockyR - If you used RaymondC's method it would take you a little over 35 afternoons of scanning.

Keep the landscape plans as is. Those are much easier to read, and functional as is, rather than on a computer screen. Your legal said don't discard anything, which you won't technically be doing once, or if you scan everything.

You've confused me a bit by your statement "As a former Board member, and now a Director...".

Directors are Board members in my lingo and gov. docs.

Did you mean to state "...and now an Officer"?
RaymondC (Minnesota)
Posts: 64
Posted:
We simply used meaningful folder names. Resident Issues, Quotations, Facility Problems, Meeting Documents, etc. Then used meaningful filen names. Letter to board by XYZ 11-15-07, etc..

Good luck! Your attorney was the wrong person to ask about document retention. A better source would be your accountant or auditor. There are a number of websites with good guidelines on this issue. Other than deed related items, or payroll, you really don't need to keep everything. Besides, as another poster pointed out, scanned records are kept records. Many attorneys seem to be willing to offer excessively conservative opinions on subjects of which they have little knowledge. I presume it covers their butts.
RockyR (Arizona)
Posts: 3
Posted:
GeraldT4 To clear up my status, I was a member of the Board of Directors. I resigned last May when offered a paying position as the Standards Director of the community. From my first day living here in Arizona, I've been involved in the Architectural Review Committee. In a community as large as this, understanding the RDG's isn't easy.
I have found a company who is working up a bid to convert our documents. I'll let everyone know the outcome. Thanks again for your input. Rocky
GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022
Posted:
RockyR - I've a degree in Environmental Planning and began my major in Landscape Architecture. Even if you convert the landscape plans to digital, I strongly recommend you keep them in their original paper form. They are drawn to scale and here in the northeast can be costly to have reproduced.
GloriaM (North Carolina)
Posts: 829
Posted:
Adobe Professional 8 is a wonderful program having the ability to not only convert Word documents, Excel, Publisher but can also group documents into one folder for you. The the document can be named and transfered onto a CD. Its an expensive program, but as an MC well worth the investment.

Retention of certain documents in paper format is crutical, but 10-year old ARC's should be placed on an ARC Master Lisitng and could be placed on CD and discarded.

Of course our copy machine scans documents quickly for us by placing pages upon pages into the feeder and it scans to wherever we need it to go.

Back up storage is also important with offsite storage of the external hard drive.

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