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ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
In today's Washington Post:

A D.C. judge has ruled that a man who smokes medical marijuana in his apartment must stop after a neighbor complained that the odor from his marijuana crept into her home and caused a nuisance.

Judge Ebony Scott ruled late Monday that while Josefa Ippolito-Shepherd could not prove she is entitled to damages, she successfully made the case that the smell is a private nuisance, and Scott ordered Thomas Cackett to stop smoking. Scott said that Cackett is licensed to buy marijuana but “he does not possess a license to disrupt the full use and enjoyment of one’s land.”

“Indeed, the public interest is best served by eliminating the smoking nuisance and the toxins that it deposits into the air, toxins that involuntary smokers have no choice but to inhale,” Scott wrote in her decision.

Cackett is banned from smoking at his address or within 25 feet of Ippolito-Shepherd’s address.

The decision is believed to be the first of its kind and could open the door to additional legal action.

...

Federal disability protections do not extend to medical cannabis patients because of marijuana’s federal legal status.

...

J.P. Szymkowicz, an attorney representing complaining neighbors in a similar ongoing case, said Ippolito-Shepherd’s legal win does not set a legal precedent as an appellate decision would.

“If you’re faced with the neighbor that has a smoking problem and it’s coming into your house, you can go to them and say ‘Look we can do this the easy way or the hard way. If we go to court, it’s going to take money, it’s going to take time and eventually I’m going to win,’” said Szymkowicz, who is also an advisory neighborhood commissioner. “That’s the persuasive value.”


More at https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/06/06/marijuana-smoke-weed-smell-neighbors/

The successful plaintiff here did not use an attorney; she was pro se.

The judge serves on the Superior Court of the District of Columbia and was/is a lawyer.

ElleN editorial comment:
I hope the judge's ruling gets traction at condos.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
The trouble with court rulings and smoking bans in buildings is that they're not enforceable to the extent needed by someone with ailments such as COPD.

Rules and laws can only impose penalties after the fact - they can't actually prevent an action from happening. It's why I've commented in the past that if someone has lung conditions that require clean air, they need to have backup measures such as HEPA filters in place. Or avoid attached housing altogether, which is what I recommend. I understand that many people have little choice about this, though.

I know next to nothing about medical marijuana, but can't someone ingest it in some other fashion? People who live in areas where marijuana is banned have relied on edibles for years since you can consume them without alerting the neighborhood that you're breaking the law.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I love the attorney's comment “If you’re faced with the neighbor that has a smoking problem and it’s coming into your house, you can go to them and say ‘Look we can do this the easy way or the hard way. If we go to court, it’s going to take money, it’s going to take time and eventually I’m going to win.” In many ways, that's an approach that could work with other problems between neighbors.

think Cathy has hit upon something regarding the requirement of HEPA filters if people are going to smoke weed or tobacco, for that matter. If several people come to the board with a complaint (if it's only one person complaining, he/she needs to settle it with the neighbor), the board could direct the person to use them or an ashtray that absorbs smoke - or risk legal action on establishing or maintaining a nuisance. Ditto for landlords whose tenants love lighting up. I Googled it just now, and there are several available that won't break the bank.

Or they could just munch on edibles - there are cookbooks out that have all sorts of recipes (and not all of them are brownies).

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
I too thought the attorney's comment was great. Of course, I particularly love how he says his client is going to win. Truth is, he has no idea whether a court would rule in his favor.

The article notes that this was not an appeal court ruling, so the judge's ruling is not binding on any other court.

Aside: As a DC court system judge, the judge was U. S. Senate confirmed some months ago.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 06/07/2023 9:30 AM
The trouble with court rulings and smoking bans in buildings is that they're not enforceable to the extent needed by someone with ailments such as COPD.

Rules and laws can only impose penalties after the fact - they can't actually prevent an action from happening. It's why I've commented in the past that if someone has lung conditions that require clean air, they need to have backup measures such as HEPA filters in place. Or avoid attached housing altogether, which is what I recommend. I understand that many people have little choice about this, though.

I know next to nothing about medical marijuana, but can't someone ingest it in some other fashion? People who live in areas where marijuana is banned have relied on edibles for years since you can consume them without alerting the neighborhood that you're breaking the law.

Unfortunately in some places that allow medical MJ all you need to say is you fart too much and get a note from the high pastaterian from the church of the flying spaghetti monster to sign your medical MJ card.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
This is some welcoming news. I used to live in an apartment with adjoining balconies from a corner unit. The people there were chain smokers and never smoked inside their unit, always outside.
Their cigarette smoke would always waft into my apartment. Countless complaints to the leasing office and corporate literately went nowhere.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Until about 6 years ago, residents in my condo high rise were permitted to use smoking materials on their balconies. And, yes, that medical or or otherwise skunk odor wafted in the open window next to my desk. It wasn't even every day and probably depended on the Bay breeze's direction. Enough Owners complained, and the Board a passed a rule, after the mandatory 28-day comment period by owners --- prohibiting using smoking materials on our common area exclusive use balconies.

Smoking was still permitted in condo units. So I & other stills sometimes caught nasty whiffs of weed or cigars. A few residents smoked "inside" their unit with their hand & arm extended outside their balcony door since THEY didn't want that nastiness in their homes either.

Our 2022 CC&Rs rewrite prohibit the use of smoking materials anywhere in our entire premises including inside our units. A tiny handful of owners individually objected and refused to vote to approve the CC&Rs. But the large majority won. So....out on the sidewalks the smokers are. I'd say in an HOA of 200+ units, we may have a dozen smokers whom I've observed.

Such prohibitions are pretty common in CA and everyone's aware there are other ways to ingest weed without smoking it. I imagine it's different in the states.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I know this isn't true of all smokers, but has anyone else noticed that too many have NO REGARD WHATSOEVER for anyone else's feelings on the funk and mess they cause because of their habits? They don't care if little kids are coughing or sneezing from the smoke (including their own relatives), leave ashes and cigarette butts or roaches all over the floor or furniture, not to mention the burns? And some ignore personal space and get way too close to you with that smokers breathe that makes you gag!


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 06/08/2023 6:04 AM
I know this isn't true of all smokers, but has anyone else noticed that too many have NO REGARD WHATSOEVER for anyone else's feelings on the funk and mess they cause because of their habits? They don't care if little kids are coughing or sneezing from the smoke (including their own relatives), leave ashes and cigarette butts or roaches all over the floor or furniture, not to mention the burns? And some ignore personal space and get way too close to you with that smokers breathe that makes you gag!


They're addicts (to nicotine). Addicts only care about their next fix, and will trash anything and everyone in service to this.
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 06/08/2023 7:35 AM
Posted By SheliaH on 06/08/2023 6:04 AM
I know this isn't true of all smokers, but has anyone else noticed that too many have NO REGARD WHATSOEVER for anyone else's feelings on the funk and mess they cause because of their habits? They don't care if little kids are coughing or sneezing from the smoke (including their own relatives), leave ashes and cigarette butts or roaches all over the floor or furniture, not to mention the burns? And some ignore personal space and get way too close to you with that smokers breathe that makes you gag!



They're addicts (to nicotine). Addicts only care about their next fix, and will trash anything and everyone in service to this.

Way to throw an entire group of people under the bus. Unfortunately, I am a smoker and no I don't condone it. However, I bend over backwards to smoke away from others. When in public, I excuse myself and find a place far away from people before I light up. I also never flick my butt on the ground. Not all of us are evil addicts looking to mow down everyone in our way when we need a fix. Your one size fits all description of us is a load of shit.

Yes, there are rude cigarette smokers just like there are rude people of any subset of the population.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Nobody is throwing an entire group of people under the bus.

Sheila referred to some people who behave in a specific way, and even started her comment with "I know this isn't true of all smokers."

My response referred to the subset of individuals for which her comment is true.

And it's only "throwing them under the bus" if you believe that addicts should be condemned instead of being treated for their illnesses. I can grieve for people who are experiencing the h311 of addiction and also be frustrated and angry at the damage they cause as a result of that addiction.

I try to reserve my real ire for people who choose to behave like inconsiderate jerks without being driven to it in some way.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Well, John, nice to know you're one of the considerate ones, but...

My dad smoked a pack and a half of Pall-Mall cigarettes a day, and my uncle smoked Kools - he and my next door neighbor (where I grew up) both died of lung cancer. Before I bought my townhouse, my apartment was across from a guy who continued to smoke, despite having COPD and an oxygen tank. I knew of one lady who lit up while wearing her oxygen tank, set herself on fire and died. This despite living in an assisted living building where she'd been warned about smoking in a non smoking Facility!

And then there was the guy on the plane who snuck puffs from his e-cigarette.

Sorry you're in your feelings, but I said what I said and I meant every word.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 06/08/2023 11:15 AM
Well, John, nice to know you're one of the considerate ones, but...

My dad smoked a pack and a half of Pall-Mall cigarettes a day, and my uncle smoked Kools - he and my next door neighbor (where I grew up) both died of lung cancer. Before I bought my townhouse, my apartment was across from a guy who continued to smoke, despite having COPD and an oxygen tank. I knew of one lady who lit up while wearing her oxygen tank, set herself on fire and died. This despite living in an assisted living building where she'd been warned about smoking in a non smoking Facility!

And then there was the guy on the plane who snuck puffs from his e-cigarette.

Sorry you're in your feelings, but I said what I said and I meant every word.

I don't disagree with a single thing you said. Nicotine sucks. Addiction sucks. However, not all nicotine addicts are inconsiderate, rude and disrespectful to others. That was my only point.

I'm getting off topic now but my reaction was partly based on these ads I'm seeing that are public service announcements for anti smoking. One shows a women on her death bed talking about her regrets and how it's impacted her family. Another shows a woman with her toes missing and another one shows a women with half her face gone. While I support the underlying message I can't help but think how two faced we have become. Why don't we see pubic service announcements for obesity which is an outright epidemic now. Shouldn't they have an ad with a food addicted morbidly obese person having their leg cut off because of diabetes brought on by obesity?

How about public service announcements for people that can't control their drinking? Maybe the ad shows a drunk looking at a car wreck and a dead family inside that he/she just killed? Alcohol had filled our prisons, destroyed families and is associated with violent crimes such as gun shootings, spousal abuse, car deaths etc. Despite this the government choses to focus these public service announcements on nicotine and if we are honest we all know why. It's not politically correct.

As for the issue at hand, I fully support smokers, both cigarettes and pot, being banned from lighting up on any common or limited common areas. If the governing documents say you can't light up inside your home then smokers shouldn't do it. When we join an HOA it's up to us to see if any of the rules and regs are deal breakers.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I figure if we're not seeing PSAs for a particular problem it's because the lobby for that group is more effective. (Cynic, remember?) The tobacco manufacturers lost a number of bruising court battles. I suspect one of the turning points was when it was discovered that these companies manipulated the level of nicotine in their products to make them more addictive. The public turned against them in large enough numbers to outweigh any campaign contributions being thrown at politicians, and politicians who want to remain in office know how to tell which way the wind is blowing.

You're not wrong about obesity, but there are a number of issues with that. One, it isn't contagious, and someone's obesity doesn't harm me except indirectly. Second, people who are addicted to substances other than food/sugar/whatever can just avoid the substance altogether. Overweight people instead are expected to consume moderate amounts of their problem substance, which our experiences with things like alcoholism and smoking suggest won't work. Third, it's pretty clear we don't understand the mechanisms of obesity. I've known plenty of folks who eat sparingly but are still obese, and others who eat whatever they want and remain lean. Finally, it's not like people don't know they're obese. They don't need a PSA to tell them, they're reminded every time they look in the mirror.

I think PSAs are actually not very useful no matter what group they're targeting. People change their behavior when the negative consequences of the behavior to them personal outweigh the benefits. Which suggests that strictly enforced laws and other limits are the way to go, unsatisfying as this may be as we wait for people to wise up. Which brings us neatly back to the article that ElleN posted.

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