Repair

MiaR1 (Illinois)
Posts: 46

Posted:

Here’s the scenario: unit damage from common elements failure. HOA files master claim and agrees to pay for damages but insists on using its maintenance personnel for repairs instead of a licensed contractor. Homeowner has objections to this arrangement because owner would have no recourse for shotty workmanship done in his home, whereas licensed contractor would provide that relief. With letting maintenance personnel do the repairs, owner can run into expensive building code violations when selling his place and would either have to fix the violation at own cost or reduce selling price due to no fault of his own.

Two points for this scenario: (1) if damage had occurred from unit to common element, HOA would’ve demanded from owner nothing short of a licensed contractor for repairs to common elements. Does the owner not have the same right?

(2) as it’s true with car accidents that owner of damaged vehicle can take his car for repair to mechanic of his choosing even if the other party pays, does that concept legally apply to property damage? Why or why not?

Your thoughts and guidance would be greatly appreciated.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

How do you know building code violations will occur if the maintenance personnel do the repair.

Some repairs may appropriately be made by a handyperson.

Do you have the attitude that the HOA is a corporation and business distinct from yourself? Because I think the relationship between owner and association has more dimensions to it than this. The HOA board has a responsibility to be cost efficient, without affecting quality in a meaningful way.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Typically the HOA can hire whomever they want to do the repairs if it's on their expense. The owner doesn't have much of a say if they are not paying for it. If these are paid maintenance people whom work for the HOA, then that should come with some protections for "bad work". However, that has yet to be determined until the work is done.

Former HOA President

MiaR1 (Illinois)
Posts: 46

Posted:

Ellen and Melissa, thank you for reading my post and for your valuable replies🙏

Ellen, to answer your question, I don’t have any kind of attitude to distinct myself different from the Association. However, my experiences with my condo Association has automatically situated such distinction. While I realize that not everyone has had the same experiences as I’ve had. There’s a general notion in the HOA, COA community that Associations can use maintenance personnel/handyman for repairs to units. Minor repairs sure no sweat. But certain inspections and repairs ought, especially either bigger repairs and/or repairs to plumbing, electrical things to be done by licensed professionals in my humble opinion to protect the COA/HOA in the long run which also provides assurances to the homeowner(s) that in case of problems, there would be available remedy to correct the problem. In my Association, there’s too much personal bias, narratives and drama exerted by the Board in their decision making and less objectivity and problem solving skills.

I was curious to know forum members’ thoughts about how your associations handle damage repairs to units for which the Association is responsible to do. Do they communicate with you? Do they give you the opportunity to discuss repairs to your homes for which they might be responsible? Or do they give you no option? Has any HOA/COA tried to minimize your damages hence repairs? How would the forum members feel if your Association tried to have the Association maintenance guy do repairs in your own home, would you be comfortable and confident in his work?

I belong to an Association with complete apathy and that prides itself in ruling over the homeowners and does pretty much whatever, no questions asked.

Melissa, always to the point reply to my inquiries.

In case it helps forum members in any way, attached is a link to article from NewEngland Cooperator for good reading:

https://newenglandcondo.com/article/who-does-what

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Unlike your condo HOA, our condo HOA does not have insurance to cover damage done inside Units from common area failures except to replace sheetrock. So....it's on Owners to hire repairers. It's on Owners to get permits, if required. If like my condo building, by far the most common damage is done by water intrusion.

As a high rise, we have a building engineer and his asst., both full-time, to care for the common areas. Their employers do not permit them to do any work in our separate interest Units except to try to stop water from flowing that's causing issues, i.e., find the right valve and turn it off.

Your Assoc. seems to pay for insurance to cover damage done in Units due to common area failures. So I think the HOA has the right, as Melissa notes, to choose who works in your Unit.If the HOA pays to replace damaged hard surface floors or carpeting, they may hire the vendors they choose. I assume the person(s) entering your Unit to do the work are direct employees of your HOA? In my condo building, it's hard to think of repair work for water damage in Unit to involve needing building permits.

I can't recall, Mia, and regular posters here whose HOAs do work inside condo units Plus, we don't have many posters who live in condos. So I think that's why you don't see much response. Does the insurance section of your CC&Rs help at all, Mia?

JolantaW (California)
Posts: 2

Posted:

I am a new member of Board of directors on HOA. We are trying to get loan for roof replacement as our roofs are old and leaking. They do need replacement. My problem is that I don't feel confident as a board member about the estamate of the loan that is not currently presented to us. I have heard many contradicting statements during closed HOA meetings. I reviewed bids from last year and the current estemate is a lot larger than last year. I am getting feeling that other board memebers just want me to vote on that what they are presenting. I think, the budgeted amount for the roof replacement is greatly over estimated as ( it was said before " we should remove other things from the loan" which was than retracted by few people that have been working on it the longest.) This made me suspecious. Basicly it looks like HOA wants to take a loan for the roofs and hide in it additional money for another project. The problem is that many home owners may not be able to pay. They may not be able to pay even the lower loan and either way we all would be in trouble. There was even saying about going to court if the home owners don't approve the current loan amount that HOA wants to take and impose court order on the whole community. I can not and I don't want that even as a Board member. I think Board should give home owners different proposals to complete this project possibly in smaller intervals Other Board members just don't want to give home owners any leverage.

I have spoken to Board members but they are closed on any other options for home owners. They set up the meeting with the management company that is responsible for this, in my opinion, greatly over estimated budget as they want to convince me to vote for approval on this huge loan. I just feel the president of HOA and other guy is not honest with me about actual costs needed just for this roofing project. I told them that I would like to see the actual bid from the potencial contractor but they are reluctant to do this. I am just afraid for the whole community and how this could end up. The loan would put contingency on every unit to make payments over 15 years for the loan taken by HOA. How can I protect HOA and the home owners? How to ask the management company and what to ask for in closed HOA meeting so I get to the bottom of it? Can HOA , in California, impose court order on the whole community and make the owners forcefully accept the inflated loan and bind them to payment. Can the HOA impose this even on the home owners who are current on HOA dues? If yes, what should home owners do or can do? What the home owners can do if they found out after 3 years that there is quite big amount of money left after project is done and( term of roofing project) that they were force to take loan so they HOA can just have additional funds for spending as they wish. I am afraid here about uncontrollable spending. This has been one of the problems so far? In edition, one of the Board members wants to remove from CCN'Rs the need of the home owners vote for approval of the loans in the future. Just alarming ideas left and right. I know this is long, but I would appreciate help. One more question. What direct questions do I ask the managment company to get to the bare min. of the cost of roofing project? Thank you

JolantaW (California)
Posts: 2

Posted:

I am a new member of Board of directors on HOA. We are trying to get loan for roof replacement as our roofs are old and leaking. They do need replacement. My problem is that I don't feel confident as a board member about the estamate of the loan that is not currently presented to us. I have heard many contradicting statements during closed HOA meetings. I reviewed bids from last year and the current estemate is a lot larger than last year. I am getting feeling that other board memebers just want me to vote on that what they are presenting. I think, the budgeted amount for the roof replacement is greatly over estimated as ( it was said before " we should remove other things from the loan" which was than retracted by few people that have been working on it the longest.) This made me suspecious. Basicly it looks like HOA wants to take a loan for the roofs and hide in it additional money for another project. The problem is that many home owners may not be able to pay. They may not be able to pay even the lower loan and either way we all would be in trouble. There was even saying about going to court if the home owners don't approve the current loan amount that HOA wants to take and impose court order on the whole community. I can not and I don't want that even as a Board member. I think Board should give home owners different proposals to complete this project possibly in smaller intervals Other Board members just don't want to give home owners any leverage.

I have spoken to Board members but they are closed on any other options for home owners. They set up the meeting with the management company that is responsible for this, in my opinion, greatly over estimated budget as they want to convince me to vote for approval on this huge loan. I just feel the president of HOA and other guy is not honest with me about actual costs needed just for this roofing project. I told them that I would like to see the actual bid from the potencial contractor but they are reluctant to do this. I am just afraid for the whole community and how this could end up. The loan would put contingency on every unit to make payments over 15 years for the loan taken by HOA. How can I protect HOA and the home owners? How to ask the management company and what to ask for in closed HOA meeting so I get to the bottom of it? Can HOA , in California, impose court order on the whole community and make the owners forcefully accept the inflated loan and bind them to payment. Can the HOA impose this even on the home owners who are current on HOA dues? If yes, what should home owners do or can do? What the home owners can do if they found out after 3 years that there is quite big amount of money left after project is done and( term of roofing project) that they were force to take loan so they HOA can just have additional funds for spending as they wish. I am afraid here about uncontrollable spending. This has been one of the problems so far? In edition, one of the Board members wants to remove from CCN'Rs the need of the home owners vote for approval of the loans in the future. Just alarming ideas left and right. I know this is long, but I would appreciate help. One more question. What direct questions do I ask the managment company to get to the bare min. of the cost of roofing project? Thank you

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JolantaW on 06/12/2023 3:00 PM
I told them that I would like to see the actual bid from the potencial contractor but they are reluctant to do this.

You remind the board that the vote must be done in an open meeting. When the topic comes up on the agenda, you explain that the manager and board refused to share the bid with you; you are concerned about why they are denying a lawfully elected director information critical to her decision-making; you encourage owners to ask questions during the open forum segment of the meeting; and until you have seen the bid and been persuaded that it and the loan are appropriate, because of your fiduciary duty you must vote against taking the loan.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

This really isn't related to the subject in this conversation- start a new one with your questions (just cut and paste this stuff). Shorter paragraphs would also be easier on the eyes.

Now, having said all that- if you know anything about the cost of living, you prices do increase, some faster than others. This is why you should get more than one quote, especially if the thing or service is likely to be expensive, like a car. How many quotes did you get? Fir something like new roofs, you should get at least three. These days, we have inflation, labor shortages and supply issues, with tge cost of materials going up - that likely explains this bid.

I'm also wondering about your reserve fund. Do you have one? When was tge last time you had a reserve study (if it's been over 5 years, you're way overdue for a new one.) Has the community funded it according to the recommendations in the study? If you're talking loan, it doesn't sound like jt. When was the last time the roofs were replaced? And have your assessments kept up with inflation? Probably not, because homeowners HATE assessment increases, and too often, the board cares because they want to be re-elected (like most politicians), and some people can't handle ths truth (remember Surfside?) Instead, they hope the repair can be put off until they sell and then it'll be someone else's problem.

By the way, the management company works at the direction of the board. You don't say how long you've been on the board, but it may be your colleagues are lazy and prefer the manager do the thinking for them
It seems strange you're a board member and can't see the bid - THAT'S a big problem and you may have to alert your neighbors to apply pressure to them (especially the guy who wants to change the CCRs so homeowners can't vote on loans). Apparently this bozo has forgotten the documents can't be changed without a certain percentage of homeowners voting for it and I doubt anyone would vote for this.

You might be the only on on that board with some sense, so speak up and speak up often. Regular board meetings may be closed, but I would hope your documents allow for special homeowners meetings to discuss and perhaps vite on jot topics. You need to get a group together to spearhead thus.

And prepare for war - your colleagues might not like you anymore once this starts, so decide now how far you're willing to go. Meanwhile, you might not be able to get away from a loan for tbe roofs if your finances are jacked up. They may not like it,, but homeowners will have to accept that too - or learn to live with buckets everywhere and water damage.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

With Shelia, Jolanta, start a new thread. Please try to write just the main points--your main concerns. Do know that in CA, contracts are not required to be approved in open board meetings (though many boards, including mine do).

Also with Shelia, let us know in your new thread if your HOA has a reserve account where funds have been contributed every year to repair and replace things like roofs.

You must read the proposals- 3, as Shelia advises. It IS possible, these days, that the bid(s) are a lot higher than a year ago. Your board must get an opinion from your HOA attorney on this proposal, l AND on a bank loan to make sure the association (all owners) are protected. You must read that too.

MonaB (Florida)
Posts: 1

Posted:

The answer here might depend on your state regulations also. If the repairs involve anything that would fall under Building Code, thé HOA would have to hire a licensed contractor to do the work, not a maintenance person. The unit owner should also be able to get an answer from the insurance company. They also have state requirements on repairs.
I’m glad your HOA realized that while you might not be responsible for anything other than common elements, secondary damage to a unit resulting from failure of the common elements IS the HOA’s responsibility.