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LizD3 (California)
Posts: 200
Posted:
I recently moved into a very small condo building. I’ve lived in condos before and know to follow the CC&Rs but the other owners are new to condos and do not believe we have to follow them – and they don’t.

- I’ve explained we are legally obligated to follow the CC&Rs – they don’t believe me or care
- I’ve explained the benefit of following the CC&Rs – they don’t believe me
- I’ve asked the Board to enforce the CC&Rs – they refuse (they are the one’s violating the CC&Rs)
- I can’t get the homeowners to force the Board to enforce the CC&Rs – they are all on the Board (small building)!
- I’ve tried quoting relevant passages from the CC&Rs regarding whatever is being discussed or voted on – they don’t care
- Engaging a lawyer or property manager will not work – they will not agree to hire, pay, or listen to them

I’m not prepared to move and I a prefer not to escalate (arbitration, the nightmare of receivership, court, etc.), but unless I can find a way to convince them, I have no other options.

So does anyone have any helpful suggestions on how I can convince my neighbors to comply with the CC&Rs?
JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398
Posted:
the Board is the problem. You need a new Board which often becomes a futile task. I feel your PAIN!
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I agree with Jackie. I think there are people who naturally go along with the rules, and others who don't give a hoot. The first group can respond the reasoned discussion. For the second group, you have to make the consequences of their actions *to them personally* outweigh the benefits. Easier said than done, unfortunately. This is a human nature problem - the many rules and laws governing HOA operations just make the problem more obvious.

I think that living in a community association requires a certain tolerance for imperfection, otherwise you'll go slowly crazy. Everybody will assess "imperfection" differently...
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
What makes it extra tough for Liz is that she, I think, is in a 4-unit HOA.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Liz

If a 4 unit association and the other 3 are on the BOD your only alternative will be legal action. Are you prepared to do this? If not, learn to live with it.
LizD3 (California)
Posts: 200
Posted:
I’m not an enormous stickler for the CC&Rs. We are a small building with small resources, so we need to take that into consideration. But we should not purposely violate our responsibility to our neighbors by using HOA funds in violation of our CC&Rs. Or voting on things the CC&Rs prohibits. Or ignoring the result of votes we don’t like. Or doing dumb things like knowingly hiring uninsured vendors.

I hope against hope I can find a way to get everyone to be honest and ethical.

I know legal action is next.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
you think you've got problems now? just wait till you start suing your other 3 neighbors, then the fun really begins. I"d move out.
a 4 member COA where you dont' get along with the other 3 will be a nice little hell on earth imho.

vis ta vie
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I agree 100% with Wendy. If you think your HOA has minimal resources now, wait 'til it has to pay to defend against a lawsuit. If the HOA's insurer has to cough up to pay, they'll probably dump your HOA as a client, and other insurers won't be lining up to get your business.

You'd do better to just empty your bank accounts and set the money on fire. It accomplishes the same thing in much less time, without making your neighbors hate you.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
LizD3, what percentage of owners does it take to amend the covenants?

What I am getting at: If someone sues, what will stop a super-majority from amending the covenants, resulting in the lawsuit being moot?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
How we followed the rules is by referring to them when issuing out violations or question answers. You submitted a question or a violation, then we respond with the exact quote from the documents.

Plus I brought ours to every meeting. People could read them or we could reference them.

Keep in mind the documents are set up to make changes if a majority of people do not agree that should be enforceable anymore. It may need updating to current times or common sense.

Former HOA President
LizD3 (California)
Posts: 200
Posted:
Cathy – I am already a pariah for daring to suggest they have to abide by the CC&Rs. I’m not concerned about being disliked by people I dislike.

Ellen – They are welcome to amend the covenants. I’m already abiding by the statutes (and any amendment would have to abide by them).

Melissa – That is my point. I refer to the CC&Rs, but they ignore them. They just don’t care. So is there anything I can do to make them care?
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
If you want to change people's behavior, you have two options: persuasion or force. They have to be convinced that it's in their interest to behave a certain way: either they can see the benefits to them personally, or they understand the negative consequences to them personally if they do not behave that way.

That's it.

There are situations for which there is no solution that a person will like. In this case, the person either accepts that this is the way things are, or they refuse to accept it and go on fretting. Refusing to accept the only available options will not create additional options.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Are you wanting compliance to the rules simply because they exist? Or do you want compliant because things will be better if adhered to? There is a difference. Just because a rule exists doesn't mean you have to apply it. Some rules just don't make any kind of sense but they are written down somewhere. Like you can't chew gum on a Sunday while walking down the sidewalk. That is written in your rules are you going to make sure no one chews gum on Sundays? Or you going to call those people who don't enforce the rule not caring?

Be careful of what you wish for. You may just get it...

Former HOA President
LizD3 (California)
Posts: 200
Posted:
Melissa – I want, need, and am entitled to reasonable compliance because the lack of it will impact my home. And, yes, I hope very much to get what I wish for.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Well then follow them yourself. Do not gove an excuse of if no one else does then I am not. That ruins everything your trying to accomplish.

Former HOA President
LizD3 (California)
Posts: 200
Posted:
Melissa - excellent advice! It's what I'm doing.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
The only remedy is to hire an attorney and sue or threaten to sue the other owner.
Even that might be a craps shoot.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I agree with Wendy and have to wonder if the previous owner of your unit gave you the 411 on your neighbors (it could be he/she/they had the same problem and got the hell out). There are only 4 owners and you'd think everyone would want to work together. Instead this proves to me that an HOA smaller than 15 units is a waste of time. At least a larger HOA has the potential to boot out the board members with a God complex.

I've seen of your other posts and it doesn't seem like anything will change unless a court orders it and then as Wendy noted, everyone will get really pissed and make your life miserable. You msy have to ask yourself if this home is worth it and if you go the lawsuit route, you're going to need more than a winning one case. You may need to ask the court to put this place in some sort of receivership where someone can ensure the documents are being followed until at least two homeowners move out. How long will that take?

Or you can determine which CCRS and bylaws are more critical and focus on convincing the others to at least follow those as written, then deal with the other stuff later. Perhaps some parts aren't necessary at all and some simplicity would help make the association easier to run.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
LizD3 (California)
Posts: 200
Posted:
Entire building ownership essentially changed around the time I bought, so can’t blame the past owner. Also, I’m pretty sure I’m the only one who owned a condo before, so that doesn’t help.

We are a small building (with small resources), so it is unreasonable to expect us to strictly follow the CC&Rs (so am agreeing with you, here), but we should not have unapproved expenditures, unauthorized people with bank access/writing checks, etc.

Neighbors already dislike me because I say, no, we can’t use HOA funds for exclusive areas; yes, we have to maintain the common area; yes, we have to have elections, and so on. I rarely ever see them (months can go by), so that’s good (and I get along very well with the neighbors not in my building).

Really don’t want to sue my neighbors, but right now, there is no oversight and plenty of past examples (when there was some oversight) of very concerning issues. And I have reason to believe things are getting worse.

I can’t move. I don’t want to fight. But it looks like I’ll have to. So I will.

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