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CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
As we approach the second anniversary of the Champlain Towers collapse, this essay looks at the aging condo infrastructure and what may be on the horizon for those who don't want to or can't afford to living in single family homes. (I hadn't heard of this publication before, and it appears to be worth a closer look.)

Condocide: Death of a Building Type

The essay focuses on reserve funding and echoes some of the discussions we've had here, namely that condo boards are probably not up to the task of managing their properties for the long-term. I'll add a comment that I've made before. This isn't entirely the fault of the board. Condo owners who insist on keeping assessments unrealistically low (and who may have the authority to vote down budgets and assessment increases) force boards into short-term thinking - much as living paycheck-to-paycheck makes it almost impossible to plan ahead. I also fault lawmakers for not addressing the reserve funding issue except around the margins.

The essay also cites the growing trend to condo de-conversion, which may end up being the answer to aging buildings. My opinions about investor-owners may need some revising, although I suspect that individual small investors (as opposed to the large, well funded investor groups) will have the same shortcomings that we see playing out right now.

Lots of thoughtful observations from an experienced board member.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Gee, this article sums up what goes on with tge discussions on this website all day, every day! And not everyone lives in a high rise condo. Making the tough decisions and finding a way to pay for it isn't easy for anyone. Still it seems weird that people who put down a roomful of stacks for the place they live in will also turn around and cheap everything out.

Sadly this will get worse before it gets better, so I definitely see de-conversion taking hold. Unfortunately, it'll do nothing to resolve the affordable housing problem.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Yeah, I was amazed/amused at how much the article echoed what we say around here.

I also agree that many of the problems with condos boil down to unaffordability - see the recent articles about owners in Florida fighting legislators' attempt to beef up maintenance requirements. Unfortunately, the de-conversion movement may keep some high rises from collapsing, but will also put home ownership further out of reach for folks with modest means (and of course put more money in the pockets of those who already have plenty). It helps solve an immediate problem but exacerbates one of the causes of that problem.

Humans, eh? Always with the quick payoff, and let the future take care of itself. Maybe if we all lived to be 500 years old we'd have more of an interest in not trashing the place.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
There is an old joke that Condos are for the newly wed and the nearly dead. Both types fight dues increases. Newly wed say they will not be here when repairs are needed so keep dues low. Nearly dead said I am on a fixed income so do not raise the dues.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Yes. Condos attract segments of the population that have a shorter-term focus than those living in HOAs with single family homes on decent sized lots.

I also came across an article that discusses some of the broader issues underlying various housing issues, not just those seen in aging condos, although there's definitely overlap. Single-Stair Layouts Are Not Going to Fix the Housing Crisis was written by Kate Wagner, an architectural commentator who is the author of the McMansion Hell blog among other things.

Quote:

"The key problem, then, is not double-loaded corridors. It’s capitalism, It’s exploitation. That exploitation manifests architecturally in scenes ranging from horrific, visible negligence to fresh paint and quartz countertops in the deconverted two-flat on my block, where two working-class families once lived. Single-stair is not going to fix the housing crisis, because the housing crisis stems from an economic system in which housing is a commodity and a money-making scheme instead of a human right to shelter ... Making sure those buildings are and remain safe, equitable, comfortable, and stable is a political struggle waged against the landlord and developer class on behalf of the commons."

Bringing this back to the article linked at the top of the thread, it's no wonder that condo boards are not up to the task of managing their properties for the long term. Too many factors are outside of their control. I once commented in a blog post that I thought the whole condo scheme (and even HOA scheme) was designed to fail. Afterwards I thought that I may have overstated the case a bit, but now I'm not so sure.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Nope, you hit the heart of the matter. People want things now and they want it cheap – basically, it’s how this country was established (a whole ā€˜nother conversation). I live in a townhouse community and the same issues exist there because people want the benefits of homeownership while pretending to live in an apartment where ā€œthe associationā€ will take care of everything (by everything, I mean the litter and dog poop around the community and the noisy neighbors because no one knows how to talk to people and work out their problems without someone throwing punches, cursing, screaming or just pulling out a Glock and turning the neighbors and everyone around them into Swiss cheese.) Then the property values will rise without them lifting a finger and then they can leave just before the board has to recommend a special assessment to replace the roofs.

I continue to say (1) people need consumer education in high school where they can learn the truth about the cost of living (actually, we should probably start in grade school and add assorted concepts as kids get older) and (2) banks and mortgage companies REALLY need to start considering assessments as much as they consider everything else when it comes to a mortgage application. Yes, I know there may be issues with figuring out if the community is self-managed or has a property management company, and which one’s doing it, but we are past the point where they can or should get away with ā€œit’s too difficult so we can’t/won’t do it.ā€ (They really mean it’s too expensive and will reduce their profits).

This will mean HOA boards will have to get some training (continuously) on a number of issues, and they must be upfront with homeowners and tell them the truth, and not worry so much about being re-elected. You may not get re-elected and homeowners may reject the budget, but they still have to face reality, no matter how repulsive it is. As I get older, I plan to stay in my home as long as I can, but I also know if it becomes too expensive or too much for me to handle maintenance-wise, I may have to do something else. Which might then lead to another problem in finding adequate senior housing. I recently read a New York Times article where middle-class seniors are finding their current home no longer suits them, but it's too expensive to move to some of these senior communities that have all the pickleball courts and golf courses (like that 55+ community in Florida some call Disneyland for grown-ups {Florida people know the one})

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 05/24/2023 10:21 AM
I continue to say (1) people need consumer education in high school where they can learn the truth about the cost of living (actually, we should probably start in grade school and add assorted concepts as kids get older) and (2) banks and mortgage companies REALLY need to start considering assessments as much as they consider everything else when it comes to a mortgage application. Yes, I know there may be issues with figuring out if the community is self-managed or has a property management company, and which one’s doing it, but we are past the point where they can or should get away with ā€œit’s too difficult so we can’t/won’t do it.ā€ (They really mean it’s too expensive and will reduce their profits).

The days of teaching home finances in high school are long over, and will never happen again. As far as mortgage companies impounding assessments, NEVER going to happen, and not for the reason you state.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Your first comment I agree with (regrettably, but I suppose people are too busy banning books to teach something the kids can actually use).

As for the second, I can be rather cynical about some things, so we'll have to agree to disagree on this point. After seeing how the banks and mortgage companies did little or nothing with the foreclosures THEY instituted in our community and we were left without a dime, I haven't seen anything they've done that convinces me they actually want to try to do something novel that might protect their investment. I recall you said you once worked for Countrywide, so I trust you remember the class action lawsuit against them for discrimination against people of color in their lending practices, yes? Remember the settlement of $335 Million with the Justice Department? Why should I believe anything they or other mortgage companies say about anything?

(Looking at you, Wells Fargo, and that $3.7 billion settlement you negotiated with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau last year for "long-running accusations of widespread mismanagement that led to everything from incorrectly-charged interest to wrongfully possessed customer cars and foreclosed-upon homes".

You mentioned the problem with keeping up with which community is self managed vs. being managed by a property management company, but to be blunt, just because it's hard doesn't always mean you don't have to do it. Many things are possible - you may have to go to a few changes to get there, but if you want it and you can see the benefit in it, you'll usually make the effort. Granted, I've never worked in the industry, but perhaps you start with surveying the HOAs that do have property management companies and go from there. In fact, didn't someone start a company some years ago to help HOAs identify mortgage companies so they'd know who to contact if they were doing a foreclosure and there were (and still are) issues with figuring out who held the note? Someone has the answer somewhere and even if we wind up with databases in each state listing all the HOAs, we might get somewhere. It may not happen in your lifetime or mine, but we cannot continue as we have been.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
I read about the settlement, but it was 3 years after I left and that amount of time that B of A took over Countrywide. B of A settled some cases because it was cheaper to settle than to litigate. Many of the cases involving the minority community stemmed from the underwritten engines of Fannie Mae, Ginnie Mae, and Freddie Mac. I read the BS articles, one saying that Countrywide specialized in "subprime" loans. The truth is less than 8% of their production came from subprime and 92% were well-performing loans. I am sure that the parties affected were justly compensated, hahaha. The government kept every penny, so who is calling the kettle black?

FYI, it was Countrywide that developed the MERS system with tracked every mortgage assigned a MIN, just like we do with a VIN on a car. I use it all the time in working with loan servicers.

It would be great if the industry found a way to impound HOA dues. The interest made on those deposits would be greater than the taxes and insurance combined, but it could only be done if paid on an annual basis. Sorry, as much as you think there is a solution out there, there isn't one.

TamaraG6 (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Recently, I left an on-site condominium which has been in deferred maintenance for at least over ten years. I sent weekly reports to the Board explaining that once they knew that stairs were in seriously bad shape, it was their fiduciary responsibility to repair/replace; buildings as well. I sent this report weekly for over 52 weeks.

Their reserves were underfunded, the Board refused to raise fees, all in the name of "for the people". Luckily, they cancelled the contract with my company and went with a new management firm.

The manger whether on-site or portfolio can only "recommend" actions that the Board should take...let that sink in.

No Board of Directors can say, " we can't do the repair/replacement because we have no money". Their duty is to raise maintenance, special assess or take out a loan.

If the owner can't afford the price increase then yes, they will be forced to sell. My thought is that termination of condominium will begin within the next two years, especially in Florida with the price of insurance and results of milestone inspections plus SIRS. If the building doesn't pass first inspection, the results of roof replacement, stack pipe, electrical, etc. will amount to millions per building.

The day of the condo is over.
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Getting a loan these days for a condo association to make repairs is not easy. I was speaking with our representative at the bank where we just signed our line of credit. They just turned down a condo association for a loan for repairs from Hurricane Ian. He said they had underfunded reserves, very little funds in their operating account and were looking at a large special assessment. The bank just couldn't take the risk and they do a lot of HOA and condo business.

I agree that the rising insurance costs, the new laws forcing inspections and the requirement to accurately fund reserves is going to have a huge impact on the condo industry. Adding to the problem is that once the condo association is involved in any kind of lawsuit (like against their insurer) it's almost impossible to get a mortgage if you want to purchase a condo. So then only people who can afford to pay cash can buy in.

I've said this before, but we are seeing this problem in all parts of our community. Those who bought condos or duplexes when they retired are priced out of their own homes. They can't afford the increase in monthly dues, the special assessments and the increase in insurance payments. Our duplexes aren't condos so they have to pay for their own roofs and other maintenance - and at 20 years old, the buildings are needing work. It's forcing a lot of older people to move out of the area, since despite all the issues with real estate, it's still one of the fastest growing areas in the country and real estate prices have not weakened. These people can't afford their homes but can't afford to move anywhere else here either.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 05/23/2023 2:03 PM

Condocide: Death of a Building Type

The essay focuses on reserve funding and echoes some of the discussions we've had here, namely that condo boards are probably not up to the task of managing their properties for the long-term. I'll add a comment that I've made before. This isn't entirely the fault of the board. Condo owners who insist on keeping assessments unrealistically low (and who may have the authority to vote down budgets and assessment increases) force boards into short-term thinking - much as living paycheck-to-paycheck makes it almost impossible to plan ahead. I also fault lawmakers for not addressing the reserve funding issue except around the margins.
I think the following supports the points the author of the article makes.

April 2023 commentary from the condo board of a friend:

[Director Y] gave a verbal ā€œheads upā€ to all owners that his analysis of last year’s reserve study of the condominium's financial funding of reserves necessitated a significant increase in Assessments as of January, 2024, that could be as high as thirty-five (35%) percent. This is not a Board position, which will only come after all members of the Board study the needs, investigate all options, including a ā€œstepped increaseā€ plan with changes each year to ease the personal financial stress on all owners.

Director Y has served as treasurer for around ten years.

The board had recently, previously indicated that it would be directly involved in confirming remaining useful lives and costs to replace of the various reserve components.

I believe the percent funded figure for the condo is at about 30%. "Percent funded" is the amount of money the association actually has in its reserve accounts divided by what it should have in its reserve account //at this point in time//.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
That's pretty much what our board president said last year at our "not annual meeting" (didn't make quorum but the reserve study specialist had been invited to make a presentation on his findings, so the 7-8 of us who did attend said carry on).

The documents only allow a maximum of 5% increase over the current years budget without homeowner approval, and you know how that would go, so we'll, just live with the maximum increase every year fir now on and pray we don't have to resort to a special assessment. I wish tge board would gloat the idea at least- I don't want to pay sky-high assessments either, but I like new roofs, siding, etc. so we ah have no choice but to bite the bullet.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
If I lived at my friend's roughly 30-year-old condominium (around 200 units), then what would bother me are the signs that the Board either (1) does not understand the reserve study's recommendations; or (2) is "spinning" the results of the reserve study.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I had to talk our board into updating our reserve study just before I stepped down.

Someone had said "we already know we're way behind, so wh7t will a new study tell us that we don't already know? " I replied. "we still need an updated study do we can work with current figures. This may help us drive home the point that everyone has to work together to care for the property and we've gotten tougher on delinquencies for a reason."

I was board treasurer by then, as well as newsletter editor, so after we reviewed the draft with the specialist and made some adjustments to the pool numbers, we published a summary, invited homeowners to contact the property manager for a copy and then had the specialist attend a meeting to give a presentation on what the numbers said and why homeowners had to brace themselves for higher assessment increases.

I don't know how many people actually requested the report, but we didn't hear a lot of pouting about fee increases after that.I know the sayings "there are lies, damned lies and statistics" and "figures don't lie, but liars figure," but spinning numbers has never been a strong suit for me because too many people would ask questions and I can only BS for so long.

Having the specialist give a presentation, I hoped people would understand we weren't making things up. Maybe if more boards would take this approach, we might reduce some drama. If not, at least you tried - and then the homeowners would have to live with the consequences.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 05/27/2023 12:31 PM
I had to talk our board into updating our reserve study just before I stepped down.

Someone had said "we already know we're way behind, so wh7t will a new study tell us that we don't already know? " I replied. "we still need an updated study do we can work with current figures. This may help us drive home the point that everyone has to work together to care for the property and we've gotten tougher on delinquencies for a reason."

I was board treasurer by then, as well as newsletter editor, so after we reviewed the draft with the specialist and made some adjustments to the pool numbers, we published a summary, invited homeowners to contact the property manager for a copy and then had the specialist attend a meeting to give a presentation on what the numbers said and why homeowners had to brace themselves for higher assessment increases.

I don't know how many people actually requested the report, but we didn't hear a lot of pouting about fee increases after that.I know the sayings "there are lies, damned lies and statistics" and "figures don't lie, but liars figure," but spinning numbers has never been a strong suit for me because too many people would ask questions and I can only BS for so long.

Having the specialist give a presentation, I hoped people would understand we weren't making things up. Maybe if more boards would take this approach, we might reduce some drama. If not, at least you tried - and then the homeowners would have to live with the consequences.
I say: Well done in every way.

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