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LindaM37 (Missouri)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Apologies for the long story. I am a fairly new board member in a very small HOA. We have no amenities, just lawncare and snow removal as needed and outside building maintenance. One of our 3 board members violated our CC&R. It was an ugly situation with words and accusations being made toward the now president. Now the HOA president wants me to vote along with them to remove this member, leaving only 2 members on the board. The current HOA president has been in the position for the last 10+ years and done a good job of keeping fees low and maintenance up to date. They now want to resign due to the situation. I do not want the position. No one expresses any interest in becoming involved on the board, therefore, the current pres is looking for an HOA management company. The violating member who in the past wanted to dissolve the HOA has enlisted the support of 2 of his neighbors to join against the remaining board. I am in the middle of a rock and a hard place. If I agree to vote the violating member out, I will make enemies of at least 3 of my neighbors. If I do nothing, the violating member (who has expressed interest in becoming president of HOA) remains on the board, possibly keeping peace for now. If the HOA ends up hiring a management company, fees will increase and owners will have less control. I don't think the owners realize what a can of worms was opened up. I would like to be able to speak to ALL of my neighbors and this mess is definitely not what I had in mind when I joined our small HOA board. Hope this makes sense, without giving specifics. Any Advice please? And no, I can't move with the interest rates hiking up!
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
If a CAM is hired fees will go up, that's true. but you won't lose control you will have more guidance.

IF you dissolve your HOA, are you SFH or Condos? If you are in Condos you likely should not dissolve due to too many obligations
that need to be met for the community.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Unless your association is very unusual, the only people who can remove directors from the board are the homeowners via recall or normal election. Other board members can remove a director from his officer position, but the director remains on the board. The only exception I've seen to this is in the case of a director who hadn't been elected but instead had been appointed by the board to fill a vacant position, in which case the board may remove the appointed person. But this is not universally true and may even be the exception to the rule (in my community, appointed and elected board members are subject to the same rules). Check your bylaws and/or state law about this, but for now assume that the board can't remove this guy.

Second: a manager cannot replace a board member. They're two different roles, and the manager works under the direction of the board. The manager does not have any authority to tell the board what to do or to vote on any issues before the board. That said, if your goal is to have another set of hands to do the work, then a manager may make sense. The rule of thumb is that the smaller the HOA, the less cost effective hiring a manager may be. Some small HOAs farm out only certain tasks, such as hiring a bookkeeper to handle the money. Many management companies offer a menu of services so that their clients can pick and choose what they need.

I recommend your entire board educate themselves on how HOAs work because you're making this harder for yourselves (and it's hard enough as is). You also risk violating your bylaws and generating even more squabbles if you're not familiar with corporate governance, which is what you're dealing with.

Community Associations Institute has a number of excellent resources under the Learning tab, but you do have to pay for much of the info. There are also numerous free resources on the web.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
One of the many advantages of serving on the board is that you find out exactly what it is you've bought.

One of the disadvantages is that you'll see your neighbors in a different light, and some of them will not be at their best. This is often a shock to first time board members. Almost every community has some who don't give a hoot about civility and who thrive on conflict, and HOA boards are often a favorite target.

Even homeowners who aren't looking to start fights can get very upset when they expect certain things in HOAs and don't get them. In fact, some of the angriest owners I've come across were actually upset by things that are normal business practices. They were expecting a social club/democracy. What they got is a corporation - and they're shareholders, not decision-makers except in some specific and limited ways. Many people don't understand the extent to which community associations are regulated by law, starting with CC&Rs and bylaws and up through state and federal law. Not even the board can do whatever they like - in fact in some ways their actions are even more constrained than those of their neighbors. But still, it's the board that says what gives, consistent with the various laws.

All the turmoil goes with the territory to a large extent. I wish that somebody would hand out crystal balls and a thick skin to new board members. Sadly, they don't. But newbies can develop a thicker skin over time. They just have to stick with it and survive that first year or so of "OMG, I don't know anything, what was I thinking, should I resign, why did my nice neighbor suddenly become my enemy, why did nobody tell me this, should I resign...????" The first year is A LOT.

The good news is that there are some techniques for handling those who want to cause drama. Basically they boil down to not giving them the drama. You need to be consistent and stick with it - if at some point they simmer down and you think they've seen the light, they'll go right back to the drama if you stop being consistent with your communications. My mantra for these interactions is "brief, bland, boring."

The bad news is that you're not going to be able to kick back and chit chat with your neighbors as long as you're on the board. You have to watch everything you say, including never talking about association business outside of board meetings except for things like "please put it in writing and email it to the board email address". If you do talk, your audience will hear it as "the board says" no matter how many disclaimers you put in front of your comments. This can create liability problems for the association. (A former board president in my community resigned in a huff a couple years back. Details were lacking, but our manager who announced this admonished homeowners not to bring their issues to an individual board member but instead send them to the manager "because of liability issues".)

Not sure how much this helps, just know that board service is one tough job and that it's normal to feel overwhelmed and clueless.

LindaM37 (Missouri)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Condos
LindaM37 (Missouri)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Thanks for all the comments, suggestions and advice. Yes, so true...seeing neighbors in a different light isn't always a good thing!
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
As Cathy so wisely said:

Even homeowners who aren't looking to start fights can get very upset when they expect certain things in HOAs and don't get them. In fact, some of the angriest owners I've come across were actually upset by things that are normal business practices. They were expecting a social club/democracy. What they got is a corporation - and they're shareholders, not decision-makers except in some specific and limited ways. Many people don't understand the extent to which community associations are regulated by law, starting with CC&Rs and bylaws and up through state and federal law. Not even the board can do whatever they like - in fact in some ways their actions are even more constrained than those of their neighbors. But still, it's the board that says what gives, consistent with the various laws.

HOA's are not a democracy.
BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 974
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 05/22/2023 6:40 AM
... In fact, some of the angriest owners I've come across were actually upset by things that are normal business practices. They were expecting a social club/democracy. What they got is a corporation - and they're shareholders, not decision-makers except in some specific and limited ways.

Oh yeah.

Apologies for griping. But "they were expecting a social club/democracy" really caught my eye. I'm fairly new at all of this, but I believe I know exactly what you mean. And in fact, some of my neighborhood's most frustrating problems are compounded by problem people who are "just trying to help" with the decision-making. And it's like there's this meme virus that has infected most of the 'hood where they *excuse* the meddling: "well, yes, so-and-so is a pain, but at least they care and they're trying to help." Over time, people have learned not to say that to me anymore, because I'm a pretty even-tempered guy but no, they're *not* "trying to help" and don't you dare try to make excuses for them. If anything, I think they - the meddlers - are beset by a form of mental illness: there are people who can't be bothered to join the Board or a Committee, but they're always happy to tell other people what they need to do. And then skip off with zero responsibility for any chaos they cause. And if there's any positive outcome, they will absolutely take full credit for it: "Oh, yes, I'm the one who got the Board to fix ____".

Admittedly, I've done a lot of learning on my own over the past couple of years. Being a Board member is extremely educational.

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

ā€œYou can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactorā€
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillD16 on 05/25/2023 8:43 PM
If anything, I think they - the meddlers - are beset by a form of mental illness: there are people who can't be bothered to join the Board or a Committee, but they're always happy to tell other people what they need to do.
I think the typical "meddler" is not mentally ill but just frustrated because (1) they do not understand that covenants exist and what covenants are; and (2) they do not like being so "regulated."
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I completely agree on the educational value of being on the board. I think people don't really understand what they've bought until they do time in a decision-making role.

Regarding well-meaning advice, keep in mind that unsolicited advice is nearly always self-serving. I pretended to misunderstand and "assumed" they were volunteering (after a while people learned that I was only too happy to give them a job, and they avoided me). This works because it changes the narrative. They wanted to feel good about themselves without doing anything to deserve it, and instead found themselves forced to say "no" and therefore felt worse about themselves.

Is that Machiavellian? I definitely became more Machiavellian while on the board. /evil-grin

You know what else I've found helpful? I regularly read the Ask a Manager blog. The site tends to skew female, but there are plenty of men there as well - and business problems generally affect everyone and can also apply to what goes on in HOAs. I'm occasional surprised at how much management know-how I've absorbed just by reading all the time.
BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 974
Posted:

> Is that Machiavellian? I definitely became more Machiavellian while on the board. /evil-grin

But - on you it looks good. *grin*

> You know what else I've found helpful? I regularly read the Ask a Manager blog.
> The site tends to skew female, but there are plenty of men there as well - and business problems generally affect
> everyone and can also apply to what goes on in HOAs. I'm occasional surprised at how much management
> know-how I've absorbed just by reading all the time.

*laugh* I used to be a regular there myself! (this was 8-10 years ago?) It does indeed ā€œskew femaleā€ (and I often felt targeted because of that{1}). And I felt there was often a lot of ā€˜group think’ going on: if the majority believed the sky was pink, you were in for a tough time if you pointed out that it was in fact blue{2}. But I agree that AAM was home to many interesting discussions, and ā€œmanagement skillsā€ are useful in not only business and work, but parenting, HOA work, social situations, and many other aspects of the human experience.

I eventually stopped participating because there came a point when I found I could correctly anticipate the answer to every question that came up. I figured I had learned all I could learn, and moved on.

{1} I didn’t mind. I’ve been using the Internet (and some form of social media) since 1980; I can hold my own in an argument.

{2} To give you an example: someone wrote that their daughter was considering getting a tattoo, and they wondered how that might be viewed by any hiring managers? This came up when I had been working as a hiring manager for over a year. I answered honestly and, I think, as kindly as possible - it did not go over well.

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

ā€œYou can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactorā€

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