DeniseA1
Posts: 19
Posts: 19
Posted:
Is the Board required to provide a proposal to a homeowner for plumbing work that the HOA will cover?
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Homeowner requesting copy of proposal
Started by DeniseA1 • 9 replies • 442 views
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JamesB37 (California)
Posts: 346
Posts: 346
Posted:
https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/I/Inspect-Contracts#:~:text=The%20Davis%2DStirling%20Act%20states,not%20otherwise%20privileged%20under%20law.
"Executed Contracts. The statute states that executed contracts must be produced. (Civ. Code § 5200(a)(4).) The Civil Code defines an executed contract as one where "the object of which is fully performed. All others are executory.” (Civ. Code § 1661.) That means members cannot review contracts until the contracted work has been fully completed. It is more likely the legislature intended executed contracts to mean "signed." The latter view is the generally accepted view in the HOA industry and the safer approach to follow."
Now with that being said, I recently got a copy of the "2023-Condiminium Bluebook" because I saw that the California Association of Community Managers includes it in their CACM course -> CMM121 PRINCIPLES OF CALIFORNIA LAW: SESSIONS 1 & 2.
The BlueBook mentions "Written board approvals of vendor or contractor proposals or invoices.
Weil, Berding; Weil, Berding; Bickel, Branden. 2023 Condominium Bluebook: A Complete Legal Guide to Living in a Homeowners Association in California (p. 94). Common Interest Publishing. Kindle Edition. "
https://www.amazon.com/2023-Condominium-Bluebook-Homeowners-Association-ebook/dp/B0BQ5FCW8S
https://cacm.org/education/course-descriptions/california-law-series-cmm121-124/
"Executed Contracts. The statute states that executed contracts must be produced. (Civ. Code § 5200(a)(4).) The Civil Code defines an executed contract as one where "the object of which is fully performed. All others are executory.” (Civ. Code § 1661.) That means members cannot review contracts until the contracted work has been fully completed. It is more likely the legislature intended executed contracts to mean "signed." The latter view is the generally accepted view in the HOA industry and the safer approach to follow."
Now with that being said, I recently got a copy of the "2023-Condiminium Bluebook" because I saw that the California Association of Community Managers includes it in their CACM course -> CMM121 PRINCIPLES OF CALIFORNIA LAW: SESSIONS 1 & 2.
The BlueBook mentions "Written board approvals of vendor or contractor proposals or invoices.
Weil, Berding; Weil, Berding; Bickel, Branden. 2023 Condominium Bluebook: A Complete Legal Guide to Living in a Homeowners Association in California (p. 94). Common Interest Publishing. Kindle Edition. "
https://www.amazon.com/2023-Condominium-Bluebook-Homeowners-Association-ebook/dp/B0BQ5FCW8S
https://cacm.org/education/course-descriptions/california-law-series-cmm121-124/
DeniseA1
Posts: 19
Posts: 19
Posted:
Thanks!
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,519
Posts: 14,519
Posted:
So, Denise, as you can see form James' post, the Board is not required to show your or provide you with proposals. It should provide you with Board approved & signed proposals.
JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 399
Posts: 399
Posted:
Denise, I sense your frustration and have a semi-similiar problem in CA. However, isn't a "proposal" close to "wishful thinking?" Once signed, sealed, and delivered = implemented; then members should have access. It's always suspicious when BOD + PM dodge transparency. My concern is what is THE RECOURSE when BOD + PM won't provide the document or minutes showing document was approved (ever)...but have been demanding $485. per ARC application? Repeat, our documents have no mention anywhere of this MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT. I am President of our 3 BOD and have started recruitment for next election BOD. Our legal is part of this SNAFU.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,501
Posts: 3,501
Posted:
Many proposals have a contract language written into them and once executed and signed, they are available to the members for review.
MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 885
Posts: 885
Posted:
As President of an 84-unit townhome association, when we have a similar situation, we keep the homeowner in the loop as the process moves along. Only a couple of times has this process invoked a small change to the plan based on the homeowner suggestion.
DeniseA1
Posts: 19
Posts: 19
Posted:
Thanks all for your replies...especially James! I am on our BOD and none of the Board members nor property manager had a definitive answer, but thanks to James, I was able to forward the answer to all. In all of the times I have served our HOA, this issue had never come up. I figured that we don't need to provide a bid or bids, but needed to know if this was somewhere in writing. When I asked our PM why the homeowner wanted the proposal prior to the Board even reviewing it and approving it, he said the owner just wanted to know the process of the work.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,968
Posts: 6,968
Posted:
And this homeowner didn't have sense enough to simply ask the board????? Then again, the board might have avoided this by responding:
We have to be careful about showing proposals because some of them may have proprietary information and there are people who may use the information to show to a competitor who will try to underbid the project or try other means to get the work, which are unethical (or downright illegal). Instead, we look for quality vendors in a manner similar to what you might do when looking for contractors for your own home:
* Send out requests for proposal (RFP) to several contractors - at least three. Sending out the same requirements ensures we're comparing apples to apples.
* We also do background research on the contractors, checking if they've worked with HOAs before if they've had complaints and how they responded, do they have current licenses and insurance, etc.
* from there, we'll narrow down the prospects and contact them with additional questions and request references and check them.
* After all that, we discuss the findings and take a vote. Before signing the contract, the association attorney will also review them to ensure the association's interests are protected."
Throughout this process, board members are expected to make sure they don't have an actual or potential conflict of interest, such as being a close relative of a contractor who's bidding on the project. If a board member has such a conflict and cannot resolve it before we review the RFPs, he or she must recuse him/herself from participating in any discussion or vote involving that contractor or his/her bid.
You don't need to look at a proposal - the homeowner could have received a copy of the RFP without any contractor information.
We have to be careful about showing proposals because some of them may have proprietary information and there are people who may use the information to show to a competitor who will try to underbid the project or try other means to get the work, which are unethical (or downright illegal). Instead, we look for quality vendors in a manner similar to what you might do when looking for contractors for your own home:
* Send out requests for proposal (RFP) to several contractors - at least three. Sending out the same requirements ensures we're comparing apples to apples.
* We also do background research on the contractors, checking if they've worked with HOAs before if they've had complaints and how they responded, do they have current licenses and insurance, etc.
* from there, we'll narrow down the prospects and contact them with additional questions and request references and check them.
* After all that, we discuss the findings and take a vote. Before signing the contract, the association attorney will also review them to ensure the association's interests are protected."
Throughout this process, board members are expected to make sure they don't have an actual or potential conflict of interest, such as being a close relative of a contractor who's bidding on the project. If a board member has such a conflict and cannot resolve it before we review the RFPs, he or she must recuse him/herself from participating in any discussion or vote involving that contractor or his/her bid.
You don't need to look at a proposal - the homeowner could have received a copy of the RFP without any contractor information.
If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,519
Posts: 14,519
Posted:
Oh, I missed that you're on the Board, Denise. I'm a little concerned that your PM did not know the answer to this question. Or the they didn't know that an easy way to find out is to check with Davis-stirling.com, a website compiled by CA HOA lawyers with answers to just about any CA HOA question your might have. In the excellent Index, I think you'd look up "records inspection" or Inspection of records, i.e., in other words, you want to know what records Owners are entitled to legally read and what records they may not read. Their answer will directly quote CA legislation on this topic.
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