Attorneys Fees Gone Run Away

Started by AnthonyP5 • 52 replies • 600 views

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AnthonyP5 (Indiana)
Posts: 34

Posted:

Was hoping for some last minute advice. Do as anyone know of a case in which attorneys fees increased after the HOA received all past due assessments and interest. But is continuing the lawsuit to collect more fees. In other words is there a law that marks the end of when attorneys can collect fees?

My real world situation:

I live in a new small 23 unit HOA of town homes. I’ve lived there for 6 years and the builder turned the HOA over to us 3 years ago. During COVID I had changed my bank and forgot to add the HOA to my online auto bill pay. I did not pay assessments for nearly 3 years! We have small assessment. It was 50, 80, now 100. Upon getting the lawsuit it also cam with the instructions that the case was being referred to Online Dispute Resolution. I completed the form and paid all assessments + 12 interest or $3,834. I held back $500 in legal fees for the lawsuit prep stating I did not feel the HOA followed its own rules of enforcement which gives you the chance to right any wrongs without sanction.

The plaintiffs attorney never even logged in. They stated they were still suing and now the legal fees are $1,700. Trial day comes. They aren’t ready, they have to have one of their attorneys withdrawal. They then set the trial for May 17 and now the attorneys fees are $4,000. They want me to settle or state I’ll pay another $4,000 if the have to come to court.

This just doesn’t smell right. How can they prevail when there is no argument. I paid $500 to reimburse them for court costs but said that’s it.

The President of the board is a nice guy as are all the board members. I just think they are getting bad advice. Can I win this and if I do can I make it so they don’t bill the HOA?

Thank you!

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

AnthonyP5, go find a copy of the Declaration (CC&Rs) and see what it says about attorney fees. Every HOA Declaration I see states that owners are responsible for the attorney fees involved in a collection action. It's common for these attorney fees to add to a lot. I advise you to pay up now.

NA1 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 190

Posted:

For 3 years you did not notice you failed to pay, until they hired a lawyer?

You owed $500 in legal fees and attempted to screw your 22 other neighbors out of the $500 they would otherwise have to pay the lawyer because you failed for 3 years to pay. You could have paid the bill at any time, seemingly with no sanctions, during that three years you didn’t pay prior to the association employing lawyers. Now you are dragging this out and complaining about the legal fees.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AnthonyP5 on 05/13/2023 8:37 PM

I held back $500 in legal fees for the lawsuit prep stating I did not feel the HOA followed its own rules of enforcement which gives you the chance to right any wrongs without sanction.

Did you read everything in the paperwork you completed when sending in the past assessments?
Did you keep a copy?
Did the Association send you an invoice each year and you ignored it thinking you had taken care of it with auto pay?
Did you request meetings before the board to specify how the Association failed to follow their own procedure?

It's possible that you agreed to pay the attorney fees when you completed the paperwork.
It's possible that the covenants specify that any legal fees for collection efforts would be paid by you.
It's possible that the Association only recovers legal fees if they go to court and win.
It's possible that you are interpreting your governing documents correctly and if you go to court, you could win.

If you don't have documentation, it's a 50/50 shot in court.

You may want to spend money for an hour worth of time with an attorney to obtain their view of the legalities of the issue.

AnthonyP5 (Indiana)
Posts: 34

Posted:

Yes I attempted to screw the other people out of the $500 in attorneys fees because our CCRs clearly state that before filing a law suit you must allow the resident two chances to abate before sanctioning or suing. One is trough a certified letter asking for payment which they did not send. The second is for like a mini trial with the board which never happened and their majority vote to sue was never recorded in the meeting minutes as required.

When the Sheriff put the lawsuit in my hand, only then did I learn of the unpaid assessments. I paid it off plus 12% interest that day. No hedge fund manager did 12% over the last three years.

I’ve never dragged the suit out as their attorneys have with two continuances. One for withdrawing an attorney (yes they had 2 attorneys on the case of the paid assessments.

The Association has been made whole. They get no more money. It’s the Attorneys who have conveniently ballooned their fees from $500 which I have since paid to $8,000 more.

I’m not complaining it just didn’t smell right. But you’re saying this is pretty standard just pay the extra $8,000 correct?

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Your line-by-line statement of your account should spell out exactly how and when the attorney's fees increased.

Every time the attorney has to do something with the account they're handling, there will be an additional charge. If there is a long-standing dispute, it's not unusual for there to be numerous individual charges, and the original disputed amount can represent a tiny percentage of the bottom line by the time the dust settles.

It's very similar to the situation where a credit card holder buys some small item and then doesn't pay their bill. The finance charges and other penalties will accumulate and can bury the card holder if they don't finally pay their debt.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Typically a HOA should be pursuing a lien and or even foreclosure than a lawsuit. A lawsuit in my mind indicates an uneducated HOA following the nose of a lawyer. This isn't unusual for a HOA to think lawsuit to collect back dues. Mostly again by the "romantism" of TV lawyers/shows and not understanding how Liens/Foreclosures work.

I at first blush see that your HOA seems to be spearheaded by a lawyer. They most likely are telling the board "I will do what you tell me to do". This is a dangerous double edge sword in legal talk to people less educated in the law.

You may want to find out if they were sending you notices. If so, how? Seems strange they were not sending you at any point certified mail. That is one of the processes to contact. May want to find out what contact information the HOA has. They should be notifying their owners of late fees at the least. I know ours sent out notices at 15 days overdue. What is your HOA's policy?

Keep in mind you can counter-sue them back for any extra amounts they are charging you. That means anything out of the dues owed, late fees, interest, and some legal filing fees may be subject to the counter suit. This includes if you hire a lawyer of your own. A counter-suit may be something need to pursue with a lawyer in response. It will save you money and give them a heads up something is wrong in the process.

Former HOA President

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AnthonyP5 on 05/13/2023 8:37 PM
Was hoping for some last minute advice. Do as anyone know of a case in which attorneys fees increased after the HOA received all past due assessments and interest. But is continuing the lawsuit to collect more fees. In other words is there a law that marks the end of when attorneys can collect fees?

My real world situation:

I live in a new small 23 unit HOA of town homes. I’ve lived there for 6 years and the builder turned the HOA over to us 3 years ago. During COVID I had changed my bank and forgot to add the HOA to my online auto bill pay. I did not pay assessments for nearly 3 years! We have small assessment. It was 50, 80, now 100. Upon getting the lawsuit it also cam with the instructions that the case was being referred to Online Dispute Resolution. I completed the form and paid all assessments + 12 interest or $3,834. I held back $500 in legal fees for the lawsuit prep stating I did not feel the HOA followed its own rules of enforcement which gives you the chance to right any wrongs without sanction.

The plaintiffs attorney never even logged in. They stated they were still suing and now the legal fees are $1,700. Trial day comes. They aren’t ready, they have to have one of their attorneys withdrawal. They then set the trial for May 17 and now the attorneys fees are $4,000. They want me to settle or state I’ll pay another $4,000 if the have to come to court.

This just doesn’t smell right. How can they prevail when there is no argument. I paid $500 to reimburse them for court costs but said that’s it.

The President of the board is a nice guy as are all the board members. I just think they are getting bad advice. Can I win this and if I do can I make it so they don’t bill the HOA?

Thank you!

Anthony,

I'm sorry you forgot about adding the HOA to your auto-paying accounts and your efforts to catch up on your past dues are commendable. I'm a long-time HOA president and operate under the directive that when an HOA board must follow its collection procedures using legal means (hiring attorneys), that the process be as efficient as possible for both parties (time is money) and follows any collections laws to a letter, at the expense of efficiency where required.

If you are reaching out to your HOA board, and can reach the HOA president with proof of payment, they should consult with the attorney. Your withholding of $500 to make a statement to the HOA board is a legal mistake that is costing you additional fees. Pay it up and move on. You won't win. North Carolina passed a state law to limit legal fees on HOA collections cases for this very reason. The HOA needs to inquire as to why any delinquent dues payers is being soaked with fees in the mid four-figures.

This is one person's opinion.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

I really don't see how anyone "forgets " to pay HOA assessments. One month or two is possible because a person might have a family emergency that puts everything to the side,like a major medical illness. I assume you look at your bank statements every now and again - and you're saying you didn't notice the lack of payments? Nope, I call BS on that.

Then you decided not to pay the $500 in legal fees because you felt the association didn't follow its enforcement policy? Look, genius, the association has to pay the attorney before they take action and so the money you've been asked to pay goes to the association (your neighbors who had to indirectly subsidize your share of association services until the lawsuit jogged your memory.)

You could have asked about the $500 at the start, but now you've let this drag out for months while 5he fees continued to accumulate. Is it excessive? Possibly, but that's why you deal with this stuff in the beginning and get a letter stating your account is now up to date.

The attorney has offered to settle, so I suggest you stop this nonsense and call them to start negotiating. You may wind up paying half, but $2k beats the hell out of $4k or more if you lose.

If I sound harsh, it's the result of spending 5 years as board treasurer and hearing all manner of excuses. The people who owned up to the situation usually got a payment plan and if we hadn't already sent it to the attorney (too late at that point), we'd consider dropping the late fees.

Hopefully your association is sending homeowners reminders of the collection policy - we send ours every year with the upcoming year's budget. If not, make that suggestion - if you get it, perhsos you can remember to comply.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

AnthonyP5 (Indiana)
Posts: 34

Posted:

I guess I should clarify. I withheld the $500 when the case was sent to online dispute resolution. The association was paid all assessments plus interest at 12 %. The attorneys did not open the offer. I then paid the $500 after carefully reading the CCRs. Of which I may add was credited $160 because the association raised assessments more than they were allowed by their own rules.

I have not dragged my feet for one second. All continuances were made by plaintiffs attorney. Despite calling off work twice they have never been ready to proceed. Coincidentally racking up more attorneys fees.

So again the association was made whole in January plus interest. I am being sued solely for attorneys fees. I spoke to an attorney who would take the case but says he cannot guarantee victory. And if I win that would’ve $12,000 the association would be charged. My attorney and their attorneys get paid either way.

My question is if by miracle I win, can the judge order the fees not to be charged to the HOA?

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

If that's what you ask for in your lawsuit, yes. That said, one never knows what a judge will or won't do. However, someone has to pay the attorney because they don't work for nothing, and as I said earlier, the ssociation attorney has ALREADY BEEN PAID, so now it's a matter of the association getting reimbursed.

Your own attorney said they get paid either way. It's nice to see he was honest about your chances- thus is (something I think more people need to consider when they charge in with their hair on fire wanting to sue everyone. So now the question is- what do you want to accomplish now? I suspect you will pay something in the end, so its a question of how much. Why are you dragging this out?

You think the association is getting a bad advice based on them doing what the association asked ? You could talk to them about considering another law firm once you settle this, but you will need more ammunition. They got you to pony up finally, so why on earth should they move to another one? Remember, they turned this over to the attorney because you forgot to pay assessments for three bloody years - you don't think they won't give you a side eye or ask why you didn't fix this yourself three years ago when you had the opportunity to do so? Good luck with that.

Do whatever you want but at this point, I'd want to move on with my life and learn from it. Sometimes an expensive lesson is what it takes.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

AnthonyP5 (Indiana)
Posts: 34

Posted:

Thank you. Yes this is a first time board who is being given bad advice but profitable advice by the attorney. Only the 5 board members and I even know this. At our last meeting attended by the board and I asked them to simply inform the other owners that they are gambling with their money. And it’s a bad bet. If they win they get nothing. If they lose they lose $8,000. That $8000 is $4,000 for the continuances they filed and another $4,000 to appear in court Wednesday.

Finally the association is required and collection agencies and attorneys a like to send to demands for how to get current without sanction via certified mail which was never done.

I like the board, I just feel they have bad advice and want to know if they lose can the attorneys charge my HOA? I do not want this to happen. They were mislead

AnthonyP5 (Indiana)
Posts: 34

Posted:

I get all that. And please stop saying I’m dragging my feet. I have never once dragged my feet. The lawsuit is for $4,300. I paid 3800 and then the other 5. Our CCRs do state I owe attorneys fees if they are required to help collect. So why are the fees going up after they have collected
The full amount of their claim? And the association has not been billed yet for the fees. Just the $500 which is paid. The $4,000 is for going to court and filing continuances along with one lawyer withdrawing. The extra 4k is the estimated cost of the Wednesday court date.

I guess it’s in the judges hands. Although it would seem more profitable if they can lose and appeal. They could charge another $10k or so

AnthonyP5 (Indiana)
Posts: 34

Posted:

Thank you I think the entire court case will be going through the attorneys bill line by line

MarkS42 (North Carolina)
Posts: 70

Posted:

This is not going to be the most sympathetic forum for you. Everyone here has had some experience with handling delinquent accounts. Personally, I would ask for a meeting with the HOA Board. I think it can end right there. I don't think the courts will just drop all attorney fees. It will be either you and/or the HOA that pays. Looking at the Grievance Resolution Laws in Indiana, I just would not push it if I was on the board.

https://iga.in.gov/legislative/laws/2019/ic/titles/032#32-25.5-5
IC 32-25.5-5 Chapter 5. Grievance Resolution

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Another thing folks don't consider when they rush in "with their hair on fire", as Sheila says, is whether or not they intend to keep living in the community.

The association's expenses will rise as a result of the lawsuit. Their insurance premiums will also rise beyond the sharp increases we're seeing everywhere around the country. So assessments will rise. Other homeowners will have opinions about this, and word will probably get around about why they have to pay more.

I remember reading an article about someone who'd filed a Fair Housing complaint against her HOA. She was completely in the right, the board was behaving terribly. She won her lawsuit, but when she was interviewed about it on the news, she lamented the fact that she'd lost all of her friends in the community as a result. And she was the victim here. If you're not prepared to have an entire community angry at you because the higher assessments are all your fault - which is how they'll see it - you need to think twice about filing that lawsuit.

AnthonyP5 (Indiana)
Posts: 34

Posted:

I tried speaking with the board and management company but they explained they are not allowed to speak to me without the attorney present.

And to someone else’s comment. This really is a lose lose situation. 2 board members moved out already and it is no doubt going to be a very miserable place to live with all of your neighbors disliking each other and living in constant fear of lawsuits

AnthonyP5 (Indiana)
Posts: 34

Posted:

AnthonyP5 (Indiana)
Posts: 34

Posted:

AnthonyP5 (Indiana)
Posts: 34

Posted:

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Once there is litigation in process, then all communication with the board and manager will go through the association's attorney. That's normal practice in these situations.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AnthonyP5 on 05/14/2023 10:31 AM

I like the board, I just feel they have bad advice and want to know if they lose can the attorneys charge my HOA? I do not want this to happen. They were mislead

YES

They were asked to do work.
Regardless if the work was good or bad, it was done.
Hence, the Attorney (as with any contractor) will send an invoice and expect to be paid.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061

Posted:

Side note:

This website is not always quick when posting.

I know it can be frustrating thinking your submitted post didn't go through and it's natural to click again on the submit button (we have all done it at one time).
However, if you are patient, the posting will occur with only clicking the submit button once (and waiting for the website to catch up).

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Anthony

You screwed up so stop blaming the association for what they did. Unpaid dues can add up. The dues, any interest, and legal fees. I have seen as little as $1,200 in unpaid dues alone add up to over $5,000 due. Stop bytching and pay up.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061

Posted:

Anthony,

Keep in mind that what you are arguing is the amount of attorney fees and who should pay.

Worst case would be if they applied your payments first to late charges and fees and then to assessments.
With this bookkeeping (which is not uncommon) you would still owe assessments and that would be the Assocaitions argument in court.

My advice, get with an attorney and find out where you actually stand.
once you know that, you can make the decision to pay or take your chances in court.

I would certainly argue that any additional legal fees waiting for a new court date should not be on you as your side was ready to go.
What that argument will accomplish is unknown, but it's certainly worth making.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061

Posted:

In my last association, I know that the attorney would send monthly updates that cost $150 each.
The went on until the Association instructed the attorney that updates were not required unless something actually changed.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Anthony, the best option you have is to spend some money and get the advice of an attorney that specializes
in HOA matters. Be sure to bring your governing documents for the attorney to review, that would include the CC&R's
By-Laws and Rules and Regulations. You may have some recourse if you said they are not following their own collection
rules. If you paid the assessments in arrears along with the attorney fees and they are still pursuing legal action
that could be a BIG NO! Do you have a receipt for payment or a letter from the lawyer, I would get a letter from
the lawyer collecting the money, typically they are collection agency attorneys and don't know HOA laws.

AnthonyP5 (Indiana)
Posts: 34

Posted:

You're an idiot. And you're out of your element. If I'm going to pay up it's becuase that is the result of the trial. It's on Wednesday. IT's the same number whether I pay now or after. If I'm going to pay they're going to work for their money.

AnthonyP5 (Indiana)
Posts: 34

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 05/14/2023 1:44 PM
Anthony

You screwed up so stop blaming the association for what they did. Unpaid dues can add up. The dues, any interest, and legal fees. I have seen as little as $1,200 in unpaid dues alone add up to over $5,000 due. Stop bytching and pay up.

My comment about the idiot was for this nit wit.

AnthonyP5 (Indiana)
Posts: 34

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AnthonyP5 on 05/14/2023 10:31 AM
Thank you. Yes this is a first time board who is being given bad advice but profitable advice by the attorney. Only the 5 board members and I even know this. At our last meeting attended by the board and I asked them to simply inform the other owners that they are gambling with their money. And it’s a bad bet. If they win they get nothing. If they lose they lose $8,000. That $8000 is $4,000 for the continuances they filed and another $4,000 to appear in court Wednesday.

Finally the association is required and collection agencies and attorneys a like to send to demands for how to get current without sanction via certified mail which was never done.

I like the board, I just feel they have bad advice and want to know if they lose can the attorneys charge my HOA? I do not want this to happen. They were mislead

Shiela,

AnthonyP5 (Indiana)
Posts: 34

Posted:

Quote:

Shiela, I learned a lot when I was served this suit. I learned who the board is and the president. I learned we pay a management company. I learned we collected more in assesments than was budgeted for even with me missing all 12 payments. I know this sounds terrible. But I paid that back with in full, one check, with 12% APY. Do you know anyone that made 12% every year on their money the last 3 years? If you broke even you're probably in Congress. I offered to pay everyones assesment for then next 3 years if they pay me back the principal plus 12% avg annual interest. When someone merely asks what is this attorney fee, why do I owe this is the equivalent of murder than we have a problem in the legal system.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

The interest you paid had NOTHING to do with any type of "profit" made on the money. It is the LAW. Legally HOA has the right to collect dues owed, late fees, and interest. That interest represents the money they LOST if it had been in the bank if it had been paid. Plus it's also a bit "punitive" charge the state allows for.

I have a feeling you may be an "engineer" type individual. My ex was an engineer who had no context of money. He thought it was "funny" to always pay his electric bill late. Usually the day before it was to be shut off the next day. I spent every 3 months in the parking lot of our local Utilities watching him drop the bill into the slot after hours. Notice I said EX... So I am not blind to some people who have this type of mentality when it comes to paying their bills.

Think the hardest part here is accepting that it took you 3 years and a lawsuit served for you to recognize you were not paying your HOA dues. That is a hard pill to swallow. Plus you never attended a meeting? Didn't know your HOA had a management company? Most HOA's have a MC helping them run the HOA. Of which the HOA dues go toward paying. A HOA doesn't always run itself but it could if people participated.

For me the lack of conscious budgeting is a huge hurdle for full empathy in your situation. Which is what I also feel is why the HOA is filing the lawsuit, having you deal with their lawyer, and not being on any neighbor's favorite lists. Your not winning any favors in whining about the interest etc. You do by admitting you messed up paying the dues and willing to pay what you owe.

Seriously? You did not look at your bank statement once in 3 years to notice you were not auto-paying a bill? That's just a pet peeve of mine and I am sure others.

Former HOA President

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Just to clarify the interest. It is better to owe on your taxes than to get a refund. If you get a refund then that means you lost interest or use of that money till the government paid you back. If you owe taxes or get a small refund, then means you had the money in a bank collecting interest.You got to keep the interest

The HOA is out of their interest because they had no money contributed by you. This is then looked as a loss for them that is why able to collect the interest on the money as part of the money owed.

Former HOA President

NA1 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 190

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 05/15/2023 4:23 AM
The interest you paid had NOTHING to do with any type of "profit" made on the money. It is the LAW. Legally HOA has the right to collect dues owed, late fees, and interest. That interest represents the money they LOST if it had been in the bank if it had been paid. Plus it's also a bit "punitive" charge the state allows for.

I have a feeling you may be an "engineer" type individual. My ex was an engineer who had no context of money. He thought it was "funny" to always pay his electric bill late. Usually the day before it was to be shut off the next day. I spent every 3 months in the parking lot of our local Utilities watching him drop the bill into the slot after hours. Notice I said EX... So I am not blind to some people who have this type of mentality when it comes to paying their bills.

Think the hardest part here is accepting that it took you 3 years and a lawsuit served for you to recognize you were not paying your HOA dues. That is a hard pill to swallow. Plus you never attended a meeting? Didn't know your HOA had a management company? Most HOA's have a MC helping them run the HOA. Of which the HOA dues go toward paying. A HOA doesn't always run itself but it could if people participated.

For me the lack of conscious budgeting is a huge hurdle for full empathy in your situation. Which is what I also feel is why the HOA is filing the lawsuit, having you deal with their lawyer, and not being on any neighbor's favorite lists. Your not winning any favors in whining about the interest etc. You do by admitting you messed up paying the dues and willing to pay what you owe.

Seriously? You did not look at your bank statement once in 3 years to notice you were not auto-paying a bill? That's just a pet peeve of mine and I am sure others.

As a former engineer with a lot of engineer friends I have no idea what an “engineer type” who fails to pay bills is.

But the rest of what MelissaP1 says is spot on.

I know there are boards that don’t follow rules/are out of control.

But the standard claim of anyone who disagrees is “the board is out of control”, frequently followed by “I want you to tell everyone about the risk you’re taking/how you are spending money outside the rules/random other thing I disagree with”. Then its often followed up with a mailing with out of context quotes in legalese or “my lawyer told me…”

We would have charged you a fee each month starting in the third month. Yes its punitive. It rarely happens. MC would start calling then. We do not send invoices unless the monthly changes, since we are not required to and they cost money, and because we expect adults to pay their bills. Everyone can see their balance and ledger online.

AnthonyP5 (Indiana)
Posts: 34

Posted:

Agreed. Please keep in mind I am not disputing that I am in the wrong. When notified I paid all assessments owed plus interest plus lawyers fees. I paid the total amount they sought in the lawsuit. But they are still suing. That’s why I’m using the term out of control. Our attorney only made $500 when I paid everything. At trial they plan to charge $8,000

AnthonyP5 (Indiana)
Posts: 34

Posted:

Then they should eagerly take me up on my offer to pay everyone’s assessment for the year in January and they pay me back the $23,000 + 12% interest.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Why would you pay everyone's assessment? That is even a worst idea. That is because your basically giving everyone a month that will be missing on their record. It will throw off accounting. It is similar to why board members do not get "free dues payments" for serving. That month counts. A year down the line someone owes dues how would that forgiveness factor in? Better off giving everyone the money to pay their dues. See how that works out...

As for the lawsuit you can counter claim. Plus ask for your legal costs. It sounds like they are suing for their legal expenses. A court can only make one "whole" not a profit. That means somewhere 8K of damages was done. Which could be counted as all the attempts to get you to pay up.

I have a feeling they sent you more notices than your willing to recognize. No way a HOA went to a lawsuit status without sending some kind of letter.

Former HOA President

NA1 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 190

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AnthonyP5 on 05/15/2023 6:04 AM
Then they should eagerly take me up on my offer to pay everyone’s assessment for the year in January and they pay me back the $23,000 + 12% interest.

Why would they? It's a penalty rate. It's intended to make it not worth your while to play games with delayed payment.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AnthonyP5 on 05/14/2023 5:09 PM

It's [the Trial] on Wednesday.

Anthony,

I do wish you luck.
Please keep us posted.

Tim

AnthonyP5 (Indiana)
Posts: 34

Posted:

Sorry for the late post. But the trial went much odder than expected. If I had to guess the judge's daughter or daughter in law was in labor. She came in and said she was expecting an important phone call and if it came she was walking out and we would reschedule. Luckily we got about 15 minutes of her time. Attached is the what the plaintiff (HOA's attorney is seeking) which kind of made me think what a low down rat, because they were asking me to settle for less than the $8,500 that it would surely cost me if this went to trial and then they ask for $4,500 which has a math error on it. Attached is my evidence/arguement which is essentially saying that if in our Declarations, By Laws, CCR, article 11 the rules of enforcement, the section allowing them attorneys fees, is their basis well then the due process was not covered. I don't care if that is their basis or not you'll see they .1 and .4'd me death for simple emails asking for meeting minutes. These were not efforts to collect and the statute outlining what can be charged ($35 per hour not $325). Finally the judges order is I can't attach more than 2 files but it essentially says: "I need to think on this one for a bit."

Will keep you posted!

AnthonyP5 (Indiana)
Posts: 34

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AnthonyP5 on 05/21/2023 7:10 PM
Sorry for the late post. But the trial went much odder than expected. If I had to guess the judge's daughter or daughter in law was in labor. She came in and said she was expecting an important phone call and if it came she was walking out and we would reschedule. Luckily we got about 15 minutes of her time. Attached is the what the plaintiff (HOA's attorney is seeking) which kind of made me think what a low down rat, because they were asking me to settle for less than the $8,500 that it would surely cost me if this went to trial and then they ask for $4,500 which has a math error on it. Attached is my evidence/arguement which is essentially saying that if in our Declarations, By Laws, CCR, article 11 the rules of enforcement, the section allowing them attorneys fees, is their basis well then the due process was not covered. I don't care if that is their basis or not you'll see they .1 and .4'd me death for simple emails asking for meeting minutes. These were not efforts to collect and the statute outlining what can be charged ($35 per hour not $325). Finally the judges order is I can't attach more than 2 files but it essentially says: "I need to think on this one for a bit."

Will keep you posted!

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LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

I would take the settlement. As for the fees you posted, Those are about on the mark for attorneys fees. You are the one that did not pay your assessments for
three years. You are darn lucky that your HOA did not foreclose on you or that bill would have an extra zero at the end of it.

AnthonyP5 (Indiana)
Posts: 34

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LetA on 05/21/2023 8:44 PM
I would take the settlement. As for the fees you posted, Those are about on the mark for attorneys fees. You are the one that did not pay your assessments for
three years. You are darn lucky that your HOA did not foreclose on you or that bill would have an extra zero at the end of it.

I’m not so sure you should be commenting on this forum. I don’t know if you aren’t reading what I’m posting? Or you’re out of your element?

The settlement was for some where around $8500. The attorneys (2 of them) were asking me to settle for something less than their $8500 estimate to have the bench trial. I declined the settlement. We had the bench trial on the 17. The attorney now at the e trial seeks less than $4500 with ths judge scoff you will be lick to see half of the $4,500. So just to be clear you thing I should have paid $8500 s less than. $4500? I pray your job involves no thinking. Maybe lifting heavy things or digging ditches sounds about right for you.

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AnthonyP5 on 05/22/2023 1:13 AM
Posted By LetA on 05/21/2023 8:44 PM
I would take the settlement. As for the fees you posted, Those are about on the mark for attorneys fees. You are the one that did not pay your assessments for
three years. You are darn lucky that your HOA did not foreclose on you or that bill would have an extra zero at the end of it.

I’m not so sure you should be commenting on this forum. I don’t know if you aren’t reading what I’m posting? Or you’re out of your element?

The settlement was for some where around $8500. The attorneys (2 of them) were asking me to settle for something less than their $8500 estimate to have the bench trial. I declined the settlement. We had the bench trial on the 17. The attorney now at the e trial seeks less than $4500 with ths judge scoff you will be lick to see half of the $4,500. So just to be clear you thing I should have paid $8500 s less than. $4500? I pray your job involves no thinking. Maybe lifting heavy things or digging ditches sounds about right for you.

Says the guy who for three years couldn't figure out he wasn't paying his HOA fees.....

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Don't withhold any actual assessments due but if there are amounts you dispute, in California one can make a payment "under protest" then challenge in court. It's an old principle so you must have it there too. I wouldn't pay atty fees without a day in court. Also, did the board send you every notice required by law? Did they follow due process to the letter? Did they offer you alternative dispute resolution?

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AnthonyP5 on 05/22/2023 1:13 AM
The settlement was for some where around $8500. The attorneys (2 of them) were asking me to settle for something less than their $8500 estimate to have the bench trial. I declined the settlement. We had the bench trial on the 17. The attorney now at the e trial seeks less than $4500 with ths judge scoff you will be lick to see half of the $4,500. So just to be clear you thing I should have paid $8500 s less than. $4500? I pray your job involves no thinking. Maybe lifting heavy things or digging ditches sounds about right for you.

I looked at the attachments. I think it is possible the attorney has not yet included the fees for the current legal action.

LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

You have always posted that this issue was because you didn't pay your fees for three years. But if you look at the line items for the attorney's bill, you can see that they also had to deal with other matters with you - something to do with tree removal and landscaping and also an NSF check and partial payment plus document requests and lots of emails.

If you look at that attorney's invoice for $4618, it looks reasonable to me for all of that work. Attorney's are expensive - and it looks like there was more to this than simply forgetting to pay your HOA fees for 3 years.

If you can get a settlement for $4500 that seems fair. Since you said you went to trial, they would also be entitled for the time spent in court.

I would be interested in hearing what the judge decides.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I just caught he says paid through an online dispute system originally. The HOA lawyers never logged in. I am not familiar with that method unless it is with the PM. Maybe there is a detail missing. The HOA is still pursuing. Why did they not reference the online payment?

Former HOA President

AnthonyP5 (Indiana)
Posts: 34

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 05/22/2023 11:03 AM
I just caught he says paid through an online dispute system originally. The HOA lawyers never logged in. I am not familiar with that method unless it is with the PM. Maybe there is a detail missing. The HOA is still pursuing. Why did they not reference the online payment?

This may sound hard to believe, but I only learned of the unpaid assesments from the sheriff who served me the suit. You could say I'm an idiot for not realizing I hadn't paid assesments in so long, but can't you phrase it the other way too? Why did they allow it for 3 years? The suit was referred to online dispute resolution. I paid what they were asking for in full minus the $450 attorney fees for putting two liens on my home. After carefully reading the CCRs I learned that if you are 15 days late on assesments they can put a lien on your home. Although I assert a simple phone call would have gotten this done and that the attorneys have done nothing that any neighbor, board member, managment company employee could have done by saying: "do you realize you haven't paid your assesments in 3 years?" "Can you please log onto this website and pay it?" could have done, I relented and paid the $450. I have a zero balance with the HOA. The case persisted because the attorneys wanted it to persist. The fees I'm being charged for, .1 hrs here, .3 hours there are for emails of me asking for a copy of the CCRs, or meeting minutes. It's not for some special effort to collect. There is nothing to collect. That is why there is no reference to any money sought except for the attorney's fees that were all incurred after the HOA was made whole. It's stranger than fiction. SO I agree it will be interesting to see what the judge decides.

The NSF fee was due to the post office losing my check in the mail (it was mailed certified), so I put a stop pay on it and sent another. When they called me I said don't put the lower check number through it has a stop pay on it but they put both through of course and charged me $30 for the stop pay.

Finally in my front yard I wanted to put a White Paper Birch tree and a Green Japanese Maple. These trees were over $1,000 each so I thought well there goes that idea. But I saw a site selling seedlings for $20. I figured it was a rip off but took the bait. They litereally send me a broken branch off of each type of tree. When I called to complain they said just put that stick in the ground about one foot deep. Nothing happened for 4 years but on the 5th they started growing like crazy. A local landscaping company is going to excavate them and sell them. I like them, the HOA doesn't, it's fine by me. I never thought they would grow.

Attached is the HOA Ledger

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📄1522112122171.pdf(147 KB)

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Quote:

Geee, I'm not the irresponsible putz that didn't pay my assessments for three yeas scratching my head saying gee why is there too much money in my bank account.

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