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BillB17 (South Carolina)
Posts: 92
Posted:
Our governing documents state that nominations for elected members to the board of directors shall be made by a nominating committee. Nominations may also be made from the floor at the annual meeting. the documents then further describe how the nominating committee places those members in nomination.

The documents are completely silent on write in votes. The state law on not for profit corporations is also completely silent on the issue.

Question: Under these circumstances would write in votes for board members be legitimate votes to be counted?

Also, our proxy/ballot includes a space for write ins. Is this proper under these circumstances?
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillB17 on 04/28/2023 10:19 AM
Our governing documents state that nominations for elected members to the board of directors shall be made by a nominating committee. Nominations may also be made from the floor at the annual meeting. the documents then further describe how the nominating committee places those members in nomination.

The documents are completely silent on write in votes.
I disagree they are silent. So far it appears to me the governing documents are saying there are two ways to run for the board: Via receiving a nomination from the nominating committee, or by being nominated from the floor.

Any other approach does not seem to me to be kosher.
BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillB17 on 04/28/2023 10:19 AM
Our governing documents state that nominations for elected members to the board of directors shall be made by a nominating committee. Nominations may also be made from the floor at the annual meeting. the documents then further describe how the nominating committee places those members in nomination.

The documents are completely silent on write in votes. The state law on not for profit corporations is also completely silent on the issue.

Question: Under these circumstances would write in votes for board members be legitimate votes to be counted?

Also, our proxy/ballot includes a space for write ins. Is this proper under these circumstances?

I'll guess that "floor nomination" == "write-in vote". Although finding a source that actually comes right out and says that might be challenging.

It makes sense that the ballot has a space for "write-ins" - if a person gets nominated from the floor, how else are people going to vote for them?

Further, I'm going to guess that you're wondering about the case where you have your annual meeting, there are no nominations from the floor - but the majority of voters have previously decided by word of mouth or telepathy or email that "Slippery" James Bolivar DiGriz is their choice for the Board, and lo! When the ballots are counted, Mr. DiGriz has a clear majority of votes.

My final speculation for the day: my guess in that case - given that Mr. DiGriz is a real person and a valid candidate - is that whoever is running the election will ask Mr. DiGriz if he is willing to serve. And if he says "yes", then The People's Will Be Done.

All of that said, the law can be really weird - remember the ending of the Paul Newman movie The Verdict? The evil lawyers who were not Paul Newman pulled out some dusty technicality and the judge agreed - so maybe the scenario I outlined above is a non-starter. However, again referencing The Verdict: the jury quite obviously thought that the technicality was BS and so Paul Newman and his client were awarded some huge amount of $$$. How would such a situation play out in the context of a HOA BoD election? I've done too much guessing here, I'll spare you.

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I always say not everything can or should be written in HOA land, although in this case, it would be nice if your documents addressed write on votes. That, said, You'll get into a circular argument if some say you MUST declare you're running for a seat vs.the documents don't say yea or nay and state law doesn't address it either, so what's wrong with it.

I'm inclined to go with the latter view because our proxies allow homeowners to nominate themselves or someone else for the board. It's still a matter of math- if you only get one bite, you're unlikely to be elected, unless no one else runs or you get enough homeowners yo also vote for you.

(In which case, I'd ask why the person didn't go ahead and announce he or she was running for a spot in the first place....)

We also allow nominations from the floor at the meeting, so it's easy for someone to second the nomination and then people vote by a show of hands.

If you're a small community anyway, don't waste time overthinking this. You could post a deadline where peopke should declare their intentions or allow nominations from the floor and be done with it.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
BillB17 (South Carolina)
Posts: 92
Posted:
SheliaH

Thanks for the response.

In our case, we send a 60 notice of the membership meeting and include a call for candidates (nomination form)for those wishing to nominate themselves or someone else. The nomination form is due approximately 30 days prior to the meeting. Our nominating committee the reviews the candidates to ensure they are eligible to serve on the Board, normally in good standing, assessments paid and no outstanding fines or violations. Once verified, the committee notifies the management company that they are placing the names into nomination.

Again, by the requirements of our documents, nominations for elected members to the Board shall be made by a nominating committee, or a nomination can be made from the floor. Not trying to be argumentative, but I cannot see how a write in satisfies either of those criteria.

Thanks for listening.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I tend to agree with you, BillB. But that is because our old Bylaws always treated them as different matters. Our new Bylaws tsayhat nominations from the floor are not permitted. A separate section states that write - in candidates are not permitted.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Bill
I say because your ballot/proxy has spaces for write-ins then they are nominated.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Just checked and in CA, if the Bylaws or election rules of an Assoc. say that write-in candidates may be counted as candidates. If the documents and state laws are silent as in theOP’s case, in CA, write ins would not be counted in an election.

So it seems to me that argument might be good in SC. Just because there’s a space on the ballot for write ins, that dies not mean they can be counted as votes for the write tin.
MikeB23 (Louisiana)
Posts: 109
Posted:
The very beginning of our bylaws states that meetings will be conducted IAW the current edition of Robert's Rules of Order. The copy I have even includes an entire section on HOA's.

We allow nominations from the floor and include a place on the ballots containing the Board nominees for voters to enter the name(s) of anyone nominated from the floor.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeB23 on 05/03/2023 5:02 PM
The very beginning of our bylaws states that meetings will be conducted IAW the current edition of Robert's Rules of Order. The copy I have even includes an entire section on HOA's.
What's the exact title and year of publication of the edition/version of Robert's Rules you have?

The current edition is this one: https://robertsrules.com/books/newly-revised-12th-edition/ . I am having a discussion elsewhere with someone about a Robert's Rules issue (with a HOA required to use RONR, current edition). I do not recall seeing a HOA section.
MikeB23 (Louisiana)
Posts: 109
Posted:
The one on my iPad is Websters's New World Robert's Rules of Order Simplified and Applied Second Edition published by Wiley Publishing Inc.

My hard copy may be an earlier version, but it is at our condo not available to me at this time since it is in a different city.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
I am sure the HOA section is helpful.

For the finer points, one is stuck sifting through the bona fide, 800+ page current edition, with its arcane language, often written as suggestions rather than mandates, and its focus on "assemblies" that asserts that the membership has all the powers, including the power to overturn leadership decisions. This contrasts with the HOA structure where the power is concentrated in a board, and the membership has few powers.
MikeB23 (Louisiana)
Posts: 109
Posted:
Don't know about your hard copy, but the copy I have on my iPad isn't nearly that long.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeB23 on 05/03/2023 5:44 PM
Don't know about your hard copy, but the copy I have on my iPad isn't nearly that long.
What you have is not the current edition of Robert's Rules. It's more like a "Rules for Dummies" version. Which I bet is quite helpful. But if disputes pertaining to RR arise, one better get the actual current edition of Robert's Rules.

Publication of the actual Robert's Rules remains a family business, run by General Henry Robert's descendants. The robertsrules.forumflash.com site has a gaggle of the descendants moderating.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Do your bylaws state that all meetings must be conducted with Robert's Rules, MikeB? Or just meetings of the members (owners)?
MikeB23 (Louisiana)
Posts: 109
Posted:
It is referenced in "Conduct of Meetings."
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Your bylaws specify different kinds of meetings, e.g., board meetings, special meeting of the board, members meetings, which usually means the annual meeting and elections. Are you saying your bylaws don't hire Robert's for some kinds of meetings, but not others?
MikeB23 (Louisiana)
Posts: 109
Posted:
Under the Article covering the actions of the BOD.

Conduct of other meetings covered in specific articles of the bylaws.
MikeB23 (Louisiana)
Posts: 109
Posted:
Under the Article covering the actions of the BOD.

Conduct of other meetings covered in specific articles of the bylaws.

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