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DawnL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 226
Posted:
Hi guys,I desperately need some advice,but please do not say "get an attorney",if I could do that,I would not be here.
Here goes,
Office manager has falsified legal documents from the register of deeds office,and due to this has gave the association rights to file lien on about 40 of the 240 units.
And the office manager is a NOTARY PUBLIC THAT HAS NOTARY STAMPED THE CORPORATIONS DOCUMENTS..PLEASE HELP
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Sorry, but most of us on this website arent attorneys and we're from different states so the law varies. I don't know if there's a legal aid office in your area, but you could try that.

You also need to provide a lot more information. What type of legal documents are you talking about?
Who does the manager work for? How did you find out about all tthis this and do you have proof? Did you get a document stating your home was having a lien placed? If so, why? Liens generally mean there are unpaid assessments- what's your story?

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DawnL6 on 04/20/2023 5:05 PM
Hi guys,I desperately need some advice,but please do not say "get an attorney",if I could do that,I would not be here.
Here goes,
Office manager has falsified legal documents from the register of deeds office,and due to this has gave the association rights to file lien on about 40 of the 240 units.
And the office manager is a NOTARY PUBLIC THAT HAS NOTARY STAMPED THE CORPORATIONS DOCUMENTS..PLEASE HELP

what do your ccr/bylaws say about the HOA's ability to file lien?

vis ta vie
BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 973
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 04/20/2023 5:49 PM
Sorry, but most of us on this website arent attorneys and we're from different states so the law varies. I don't know if there's a legal aid office in your area, but you could try that.

You also need to provide a lot more information. What type of legal documents are you talking about?
Who does the manager work for? How did you find out about all tthis this and do you have proof? Did you get a document stating your home was having a lien placed? If so, why? Liens generally mean there are unpaid assessments- what's your story?

If I may amplify Shelia’s fine advice: you should invest some time and thought and effort into writing up a clear, concise statement of the problem. Once you’ve got that, it will be much easier for you to ask advice here and anywhere else.

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,060
Posted:
IF you have proof, you could simply contact the county/city prosecutors office. They would take it from there.

What would be proof?

Statements that the board never approved.
Statements that signers never signed.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I am still confused about the details of the original post. Are you saying they ARE making it NOT possible to file a lien on 40 properties or that they CAN do it? I had to re-read that statement a few times. Little unclear how a legal document was modified and which one it was that made this happen. Considering that it takes a membership vote to make changes to the HOA documents NOT an MC.

Can you provide more details on the situation? Filing a lien is usually allowed by state laws which circumvent the HOA rules. A lien is filed for unpaid dues NOT fines. However, there are some accounting practices (I do NOT agree with) that applies dues money to fines. Thus making it look like one is not paying their dues. It's a bit complicated but not necessarily illegal.

We had a policy in place we liened at 6 months behind and CONSIDERED foreclosure at 1 year or more. Not in our official rules but it was a "policy" we went by.

Former HOA President
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/21/2023 2:39 PM
I am still confused about the details of the original post. Are you saying they ARE making it NOT possible to file a lien on 40 properties or that they CAN do it? I had to re-read that statement a few times. Little unclear how a legal document was modified and which one it was that made this happen. Considering that it takes a membership vote to make changes to the HOA documents NOT an MC.

Can you provide more details on the situation? Filing a lien is usually allowed by state laws which circumvent the HOA rules. A lien is filed for unpaid dues NOT fines. However, there are some accounting practices (I do NOT agree with) that applies dues money to fines. Thus making it look like one is not paying their dues. It's a bit complicated but not necessarily illegal.

We had a policy in place we liened at 6 months behind and CONSIDERED foreclosure at 1 year or more. Not in our official rules but it was a "policy" we went by.

I agree. There was not enough information/specifics in the first post for me to decide.
DawnL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 226
Posted:
State law requires our rules and regulations to be recorded/filed in the deeds office.
There is one set online through public records at the deeds office,and 1 set the property manager sent to me,that has the same record/file stamp,the same time,same book number,same page number,same everything,but a different set.
The content that is different is "having to not give a warning" before fines.
The judge from the deeds office has already emailed me several times stating the stamp did not come from their office as the documents showed.
DawnL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 226
Posted:
The property manager has already admitted to "mailing out the draft set by accident.
I have emails from her backing the fraudulent set stating"did not have to give a warning".
She now claims that was a "cut and paste error.ANOTHER ERROR.
DawnL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 226
Posted:
The property manager has already admitted to "mailing out the draft set by accident.
I have emails from her backing the fraudulent set stating"did not have to give a warning".
She now claims that was a "cut and paste error.ANOTHER ERROR.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 04/22/2023 9:28 AM
Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/21/2023 2:39 PM
I am still confused about the details of the original post. Are you saying they ARE making it NOT possible to file a lien on 40 properties or that they CAN do it? I had to re-read that statement a few times. Little unclear how a legal document was modified and which one it was that made this happen. Considering that it takes a membership vote to make changes to the HOA documents NOT an MC.

Can you provide more details on the situation? Filing a lien is usually allowed by state laws which circumvent the HOA rules. A lien is filed for unpaid dues NOT fines. However, there are some accounting practices (I do NOT agree with) that applies dues money to fines. Thus making it look like one is not paying their dues. It's a bit complicated but not necessarily illegal.

We had a policy in place we liened at 6 months behind and CONSIDERED foreclosure at 1 year or more. Not in our official rules but it was a "policy" we went by.


I agree. There was not enough information/specifics in the first post for me to decide.

Ditto.

Dawn should be very careful about slinging around accusations such as "falsified", which implies deliberate action. "I messed up" or "I sent out the wrong documents" isn't good but it's not deliberate misbehavior. Accusing a professional of violating the law may force them into taking legal action against their accuser because of damage to their reputation and career. And talking on an anonymous internet forum won't protect people, since this can be traced back to the poster. (Cloud forensics is an interesting field. NOTHING is private on the internet.)

Falsifying lien documents would be a particularly dumb thing to do. There are too many eyes on the foreclosure process, and it can be stopped at any point if the owner pays what they owe. More to the point, the alleged perpetrator of this doesn't benefit personally from it - if anything they're most likely to be thrown under the bus if this comes to light. I can see a shady investor group that's trying to acquire units going this route, because there is a chance of significant personal benefit to them. In this case, no.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Seems to me there is 2 problems. 17% of the homeowners aren’t paying and the manager doesn’t know what they are doing.

The solution to the issue is simple. You should advise the board they need to adopt a collection policy authorizing an attorney to send the notices, place the liens and collect the attorney fees from the offending home owners.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Dean that makes no sense. A lien has legal teeth. A letter from a lawyer just feeds the lawyer pocket. Beside if you do not pay the lawyer fee they file a lien...

Former HOA President
DawnL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 226
Posted:
Let me state very clearly,that i am beyond the "defamation " issues,as I have a set of rules and regulations that has a fraudulent stamp on each of the 19 pages,that the register of deeds office has already stated their office did not place the stamp on these documents.
The office manager states she mailed out the fraudulent set by accident,ok,I will give her that,but what now happens when she enforces the fraudulent set?
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
I'm unclear about what you are talking about when you say the "rules and regulations must be recorded". Do you mean the declaration and bylaws must be recorded with the county? In my state, usually the rules and regulations are a separate document that does not have to be recorded - and the rules and regulations would not contain language about recording liens for delinquent assessments. Do you mean they changed the wording in the declaration about how and when liens can be placed?

Please give us more information. Why are these liens being recorded "without notice"? Are these liens for violations and fines or are they because of overdue assessments? Sometimes that does make a difference in how liens are handled.

In the original documents (the ones that you say were actually recorded), how much notice was required to be given before a lien was placed? In the new (draft) documents, what was changed?

Rather than concentrate on who did what, why don't you tell us the actual situation and we may be able to give better advice.
DawnL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 226
Posted:
Is it not fraud for enforcing the fraudulent set of documents?
Also,the property manager is the notary public,who notarized,created,drafted,distributed,and enforced the fraudulent documents.
DawnL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 226
Posted:
Is it not fraud for enforcing the fraudulent set of documents?
Also,the property manager is the notary public,who notarized,created,drafted,distributed,and enforced the fraudulent documents.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DawnL6 on 04/27/2024 6:04 PM
State law requires our rules and regulations to be recorded/filed in the deeds office.
No, state law has no such requirement for the board-created rules and regulations.

State law (statutes or case law) likely does require that the Covenants be recorded with the county.
DawnL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 226
Posted:
I am in SC.
Our rules and regulations are required to be filed and recorded through the deeds office and become public record.
DawnL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 226
Posted:
I am in SC.
Our rules and regulations are required to be filed and recorded through the deeds office and become public record.
DawnL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 226
Posted:
I am in SC.
Our rules and regulations are required to be filed and recorded through the deeds office and become public record.
DawnL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 226
Posted:
I am in SC.
Our rules and regulations are required to be filed and recorded through the deeds office and become public record.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DawnL6 on 04/28/2024 2:16 PM
I am in SC. Our rules and regulations are required to be filed and recorded through the deeds office and become public record
Responses like the above are why you need to hire an attorney. He or she will be happy to teach you about the law for a measly $250 an hour or so. It will be money well spent.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/28/2024 8:29 AM
Dean that makes no sense. A lien has legal teeth. A letter from a lawyer just feeds the lawyer pocket. Beside if you do not pay the lawyer fee they file a lien...

So it makes sense to you for close to 1 out of 5 homeowners not paying? What do you propose? Maybe the rest of the paying owners should just increase the fees and carry the deadbeats.

What is obvious is this situation has gone far too long without action at this HOA and this ahOA needs to rid itself of the dead beats. It that means the HOA filing liens and foreclosing on some properties maybe some homeowners will see the writing on the wall.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
What is the name/title on the top or the document or perhaps on a "cover page?" * Is there more than one type of document that the "officer Manager" signed ? If so, what are the names (titles) of these other documents?

Assuming it's just one document, What is the office manager's date stamped on it?

Do you see any minutes of Board meetings when the Board "approved"/ voted on this policy? Without a Board vote/decision, written in meeting minutes, AND the minutes approved by the board at an open meeting, AND at least one Board member's signature on the minutes, the Board/Assoc. may not carry out OR order the office manager to carry out this so-called "new" policy.

Who exactly does the "office manager" work for? Did the Board with its vote hire her? Or did the Board hire a company--perhaps a management company-- that she works for?

What, as Wendy asked, do your CC&Rs or perhaps Bylaws say about filing a lien? Or how--the procedure-- to levy fines on an owner?

Are you SFHs or a condo HOA? I believe JohnC of SC has said there are different state statutes about condos.

*Sheila's early-on question that Dawn didn't answer.
DawnL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 226
Posted:
Apparently,I have not made it clear enough,that SC homeowners associations governing documents are required to be filed and recorded for public access, including,the rules and regulations,which are more than likely,the most viewed in the association.

The property manager and also the notary public for the association
(Same person) distributed a revised version of the associations rules and regulations which consist of 18 pages((remember this number) by email to me.

This set of documents stated "they did not have to give a warning".
This set had a stamp in the upper right hand corner,that APPEARED to have come from the register of deeds office,which had the date,
the page number,book number,time stamped,etc,with the judges name stamped on each of the pages.

The set online through the deeds office,which contains the same date,same book number,same page number,same time,judges name also stamped,as the set she emailed me,but this set states"after a warning",and has 19 pages,including the "notaries acknowledgement page"(and office manager(same person).

Remember,I stated the set she emailed me only had 18 pages due to the emailed set was minus her "acknowledgement page" although it was stamped in upper right hand corner (19 pages).

Maybe this is over you guys head,because I cannot explain any better or clearer than this.
Thanks for any advice(not legal).

Homeowner of 25 years.

DawnL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 226
Posted:
We are Condominiums.We have 240 units.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
So what? Does that mean can not place liens or foreclosure for non payment? Nope. Still have to pay dues and abide by rules on file even if the copy you have is not right. It is the copy on file that matters.

Simply request to spend the money to provide copies to the members. Although this should cost the HOA a few hundred to a few thousand to do it. Otherwise the HOA can refer people where to g, et a free copy at court house or state, post on HOA website, or pay for a copy on how much costs to produce.

Issue fixed.

Former HOA President
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'm sorry my questions were so murky that you're unable to answer them, Dawn. I'll try one more time, with the most important one:

Do you have or have you seen the approved minutes of a meeting of the Board where these "new" rules were voted on and approved by the Board? If these new rules were not approved by the Board following whatever steps your Bylaws require, there ARE no new rules. The old ones are the ones that apply.

Unless your Board stupidly has a contract with this "officer Manager" that she has the authority to approve changes to your HOA's rules, It doesn't matter what she did.

And it does NOT matter if the Deeds Office stamped it, blah, blah. They do NOT have the authority to approve change the rules in your HOA.

ONLY your Board has that legal authority.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DawnL6 on 04/29/2024 6:07 PM
Apparently,I have not made it clear enough,that SC homeowners associations governing documents are required to be filed and recorded for public access, including,the rules and regulations,which are more than likely,the most viewed in the association.
...
Maybe this is over you guys head,because I cannot explain any better or clearer than this.
Here is the source of your confusion:

-- The South Carolina HOA Act has a provision that requires the recording of the "governing documents." However, first, the statute's definition of "governing documents" is "declaration, master deeds, or bylaws, or any amendments to the declaration, master deeds, or bylaws." See SC Code 27-30-130. Second, the HOA Act does not apply to condominiums.

-- The South Carolina condo statute requires the master deed or lease to be recorded, and nothing else. See SC Code 27-31-100.

If you need links to the above statute sections, post back.

Please hire the attorney.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
One of the reasons, Elle, I asked the OP about the title or heading of the document in question is I'm not sure it's "Rules." For one thing, 18 pages seems like a hella lot for a pretty basic-sounding condo HOA. But Dawn has been asked that question twice--by me & Shelia-- and refuses to answer it.

For another, liens & fines, at least in my HOA and some I've seen here, seem to be in the covenants, tho' I guess some elaborations are in the Rules.

I DID try to poke around SC condo codes, etc.and did think I saw that rules must be recorded, but maybe my reading was off. And I'm soooo slow. I did notice something in statutes seems to have been updated this or last month.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Per the OP they are filed. Just the distributor did not provide the correct files copy. Which btw is not the officers responsibility to do nor the HOA unless upon request. Which still can be charged copy fees...

Former HOA President
DawnL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 226
Posted:
I have stated numerous times,the documents are titled "Rules and Regulations" for my association.
DawnL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 226
Posted:
I have stated numerous times,the documents are titled "Rules and Regulations" for my association.
DawnL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 226
Posted:
I have emails from the register of deeds office stating
"the stamp"did not come from the register of deeds nor the correct protocol followed,and were not part of the public records,although it appeared to,but content was different.

Just to name 1 of the differences is "do not have to send warning before fine".
The association can fine up to $1000 a day.Yes,a day!!!

This has already been admitted by her that they were accidentally stamped by the deeds office.
The deeds office stated they did not place the stamp on the documents,so who did?
I hope we can agree that $1000 a day,with no warning,equals up to $30,000 a month on just 1 homeowner.We have 240 homeowners.
And without a warning.
Which now comes to the enforcement of the documents.
I have emails from her quoting the accidentally stamped documents,that they did not have to give a warning first.

If you should ask what brought me to this discovery,is "I thought I had actually lost my mind".
The set of rules and regulations I was reading was from the register of deeds website,and public access.She kept telling me I was reading the rules and regulations wrong.This went on for a few months,as one time I would read them and it would state one thing,and the other copy I printed up stated something else.She really stated as much I was crazy.

These documents lead up to the liens,as they state the lien process,why,and how.

They can foreclose on fines alone.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
No you can not foreclosure for fines alone. It can only be for unpaid dues. That is one thing that is universal. Liens there can be a way to apply dues toward fine pay off that makes it as if you did not pay dues as it is applied toward fine penalties.

So you are jumping to all kinds of conclusions that do not exist. First it is never ever the MC responsibility to distribute any kind of rules or regs of the HOA period. They are not a member of the HOA.

You will not seem to listen to anyone who tries to inform you otherwise of your line of thinking. Many here have stated several times to you questions or provided answers.

At this point if you do not choose to listen then it is no longer this manager as the issue. It is you with the issue.

Former HOA President
DawnL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 226
Posted:
So what's the difference?
DawnL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 226
Posted:
I have stated the board of directors minutes states "the office manager(notary public) "researched,created,drafted,
distributed,and enforced the rules and regulations".She also stated to me by email,that "they agreed to sign 2.
Sign 2 what?
Nothing else was voted on during that meeting.
So was 2 different copies of rules and regulations notarized by her?

This lady was a former realtor,who lost her license for misconduct,never to practice in SC again.The board of directors hired her.

You can not draft legal documents,if you are not a attorney.With liens,rules and regulations,which are required to be filed,are legal documents.
DawnL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 226
Posted:
I have stated the board of directors minutes states "the office manager(notary public) "researched,created,drafted,
distributed,and enforced the rules and regulations".She also stated to me by email,that "they agreed to sign 2.
Sign 2 what?
Nothing else was voted on during that meeting.
So was 2 different copies of rules and regulations notarized by her?

This lady was a former realtor,who lost her license for misconduct,never to practice in SC again.The board of directors hired her.

You can not draft legal documents,if you are not a attorney.With liens,rules and regulations,which are required to be filed,are legal documents.
DawnL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 226
Posted:
MelissaP
You may not like what I say,but it's state law,it's not my opinion.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
First off the HOA enforces the rules. The management company is a paid contractor of the HOA. Is it in the contract they do the job?

You are coming across as now making personal attack against this person rather than being rational.

The reality is whatever this person provided is irrelevant. It is what is on record not in pocket that counts.

The official docs are on file correct? These are just copies and not official records. Copies are not official.

What is the issue? You get a fine or a lien? Sounds more like you got a notice and mad about it. No one appreciates a hero if you want to claim it is for the rest of the membership. You will die on that sword.

Former HOA President
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
You don't have an office manager problem, you have a board problem and therefore a condo owner problem.

The office manager has no independent authority - she works at the direction of the board, and it's the board that is accountable for her actions. If the board did hire a manager who had lost her realtor license (why? does anyone know? **), then IMHO they're failing in their fiduciary duty to the association.

The solution is some housecleaning. You need to replace the current board members with competent individuals who put the interests of the association first, and the new board can replace the manager. Unfortunately, you need allies in the form of other condo owners who see things the way you do. Also unfortunately, condos in general - particularly ones in warmer areas of the country - often have problems with apathetic or absentee owners. If the place isn't flat out falling apart, these folks often can't be bothered.

(** FWIW, in many professions a person can lose their license for a whole variety of reasons. These can range from the really bad (convicted of a crime), sort of bad (unethical behavior), personal (issues with alcoholism, drug use, or mental illness), all the way down to pretty benign stuff (failure to meet continuing education requirements). So even if the person has lost their license - which I can't personally verify - there are reasons why this may not be as bad as it sounds.)
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I have a few realtor friends. They can lose license by choice. There are educational requirements and choosing not to proceed will lose license. A friend of mine is currently not working in real estate but maintains his license. He still sells houses on the side. He can chose to not renew his license. Does not mean he lost it but decided no longer to work as a realtor.

Former HOA President
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DawnL6 on 04/29/2024 6:07 PM
Apparently,I have not made it clear enough,that SC homeowners associations governing documents are required to be filed and recorded for public access, including,the rules and regulations,which are more than likely,the most viewed in the association.

The property manager and also the notary public for the association
(Same person) distributed a revised version of the associations rules and regulations which consist of 18 pages((remember this number) by email to me.

This set of documents stated "they did not have to give a warning".
This set had a stamp in the upper right hand corner,that APPEARED to have come from the register of deeds office,which had the date,
the page number,book number,time stamped,etc,with the judges name stamped on each of the pages.

The set online through the deeds office,which contains the same date,same book number,same page number,same time,judges name also stamped,as the set she emailed me,but this set states"after a warning",and has 19 pages,including the "notaries acknowledgement page"(and office manager(same person).

Remember,I stated the set she emailed me only had 18 pages due to the emailed set was minus her "acknowledgement page" although it was stamped in upper right hand corner (19 pages).

Maybe this is over you guys head,because I cannot explain any better or clearer than this.
Thanks for any advice(not legal).

Homeowner of 25 years.


Point out the error, and include a link to the online set of records with the full payment to resolve your delinquent account. Situation solved.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
The OP states they are to be filed and public. Not sure why depending or blaming a party who is not responsible for filing or public documents. Both situations are in play. There is a recorded copy available publicly if they want the right copy. It is their right and responsibility to get a copy. Plus if they owe money then they are subject to a lien or foreclosure. Both which stop as soon as paid...

Former HOA President
DawnL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 226
Posted:
If someone steals your checkbook, or prints your checks,and cashes those,what's your negative account balance,and it's up to you to pay,since account is in your name.
False instrument..
What's the difference?

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 04/29/2024 8:10 PM
One of the reasons, Elle, I asked the OP about the title or heading of the document in question is I'm not sure it's "Rules." For one thing, 18 pages seems like a hella lot for a pretty basic-sounding condo HOA.
At this point it seems clear it is rules and regs. I would presume these are board-created.

I am not sure any of this is registering with the OP. Maybe this thread is just planting seeds, at best.

Eighteen pages actually sounds short to me. Some rules and regs include hearing and fine policies.
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 04/29/2024 8:10 PM

I DID try to poke around SC condo codes, etc.and did think I saw that rules must be recorded, but maybe my reading was off.
See the statute sections I cited above. Remember to check the definitions section as needed for the statute's definition of "governing documents." The statute definition does not include the rules and regulations.

Regardless of whether this association is subject to the SC HOA statute or SC condo statute, DawnL6 has misunderstood the statute.
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
I may be wrong, because these posts by Dawn aren't really logical but I think:

1. She is not talking about late assessments. She is talking about fines for violations of the rules in her community
2. The rules that she believes were actually recorded have a provision for a warning or notice or a before a fine is assessed
3. The rules that she says are falsified (draft rules that seem to have the stamp on them) took out the provision of a notice or warning before a fine
4. New rules allow fines up up to $1000 per day for a violation

It's not clear to me that anyone has actually been fined, but that Dawn is concerned that someone might be fined without notice and with a larger amount.

It's also not clear to me whether she has discussed this issue with the board, which should be the first step before you seek legal advice.

The fining process is most likely NOT outlined in the rules and regulations - it's usually in the declaration.

There is so much more going on here than Dawn will ever tell us. It's fun and dramatic to say that someone illegally falsified documents. It's not fun to hear that there are logical explanations, logical ways to get information, and processes to fix a problem.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:

Dawn, you did NOT "state," above as you claim: "...the board of directors minutes states 'the office manager(notary public) "researched,created,drafted, distributed,and enforced the rules and regulations.'"

All that tells us is that the O.M. did some work. It does NOT tell us that the Board voted to approve this new R&R doc. What exactly are the words the Board used to make a motion? And the words that show us there was a vote, in these minutes..

What I'm saying is that unless the Board voted to approve this new Rules & Regs doc at an open meeting, IT DOES NOT EXIST in your HOA, so cannot be enforced.

Dawn also wrote: "The property manager has already admitted to 'mailing out the draft set by accident." What does "draft set" mean? "Draft" means a version BEFORE the final version, which is what needs to be approved by the Board. A "draft" cannot be enforced.

Dawn, posters often confuse Rules & Regs with Bylaws so since it's the title of the document, if you'd written "Rules and Regulations," which shows it's the name of the document, early on it wouldn't have been "over" my head.

So... Elle, our high rise HOA with lots of amenities, underground parking, exclusive use storage lockers, guests parking, gym, pool, allows 2 pets, exclusive use balconies, etc., etc. has rules about every amenity + about the common areas, is 18 pages & includes the Schedule of Fines and steps to be called to a hearing, etc.

DawnL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 226
Posted:
In SC,you do not loose your professional license by choice for misconduct.
I,the homeowner,have verified this myself,and
have that record,only states "misconduct. "
She has admitted to this,and after confronting her through email,what do you think she done next?

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