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MarkS42 (North Carolina)
Posts: 70
Posted:
We have a small condo association which requires over 50 percent to form a quorum. It is always a challenge each year to get these votes. Does anyone have in their rules and regulations to fine a member who does not submit a ballot for the annual meeting? I am thinking a small fine would give the members a little push.
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkS42 on 04/13/2023 8:05 AM
We have a small condo association which requires over 50 percent to form a quorum. It is always a challenge each year to get these votes. Does anyone have in their rules and regulations to fine a member who does not submit a ballot for the annual meeting? I am thinking a small fine would give the members a little push.

The only Rules and Regs that are valid are ones that are supported by your governing documents. Without knowing what your docs say I would assume that you don't have the authority to make this kind of rule.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Strongly suggest not doing that, even if it would be lawful (and I suspect it's not).

Instead, think of ways to encourage voting. Making it easier helps (ie. allowing online voting or using proxies if these are OK in your state). A contested election usually gets a lot of participation. And not to be snarky, but if the board institutes a fine for non-participation, you WILL have a contested election if the board hasn't been replaced before then.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Forgot the obvious one: amend your bylaws unless the 50% quorum is set by state law. Ours is 15%, and the state next door to mine just passed a law that sets the quorum at 10% unless a community's bylaws have it higher.
MarkS42 (North Carolina)
Posts: 70
Posted:
We started online voting last year and have always allowed for proxy voting. All the units in the association currently are rentals so there just is not a lot of interest. Amending the By-Laws would require a majority. As long as I remember we have always needed to reconvene the meeting to a later date and time to lower the threshold needed to conduct the annual meeting. We just would not have the votes needed to get the amendment passed.

The Board of Directors shall have the right to enact administrative rules and regulations
regarding the use of the common areas and facilities and conduct of the members and assess
fines for infractions.

I know it is a stretch but laziness of the owners is the conduct I want to address thru a small fine. Frankly if I could get some owners to complain I could get the amendment passed.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
call your state legislatures, get them to revise the law. for some reason this year NC has a lot of HOA reform bills see links below:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/nchoareform

NORTH CAROLINA 2023-2024 LEGISLATIVE SESSION
HOA RELATED BILLS
House Bill 311 Community Association Oversight Division
https://www.ncleg.gov/BillLookup/2023/hb311
Senate Bill 312 Changes to Liens and Foreclosures by HOAs
https://www.ncleg.gov/BillLookup/2023/sb312
House Bill 542 Protect Homeowners’s Rights (liens, foreclosures)
https://www.ncleg.gov/BillLookup/2023/hb542
Senate Bill 376 Expanding Members’ Access to HOA Records
https://www.ncleg.gov/BillLookup/2023/sb376
Senate Bill 553 Landlord-Tenant and HOA Changes
https://www.ncleg.gov/BillLookup/2023/sb553
House Bill 551: Landlord-Tenant and HOA Changes
https://www.ncleg.gov/BillLookUp/2023/H551
6 Bills being considered by NC Legislators as of 4/12/2023
This is where I keep up on all this information: https://www.ncleg.gov/Legislation


vis ta vie
MarkS42 (North Carolina)
Posts: 70
Posted:
Wendy,

Thanks. That is an idea I have not considered. I would be shocked if I could get action thru the legislature but it may be worth a try. Thanks for the links.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Many bylaws also have a provision that if you fail to achieve quorum on the first attempt, you can reschedule the meeting with a lower percentage. Do your bylaws or state law allow for something like that?

You do have some unique challenges if you have so many rentals. Some of the regular posters here have similar situations, so hopefully they'll chime in with some good ideas.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
In theory, it sounds like a good idea, but just as people have the right to vote, they also have the right not to. Granted it doesn't make any sense - surely, you can make the time to show up to at least ONE meeting a year, cast your vote, and then go back to whatever you were doing. But people don't do that - and then wonder why they weren't aware of major community issues (these folks usually aren't reviewing board meeting minutes or the association's income/expense statements either).

Then you get into the "how small is a small fine" issue, what do you do if you later find someone didn't vote due to a bonafide issue like a medical emergency, where is all this money going, yada, yada, yada. I think it would probably be easier for you to poll the community to see if the governing documents can be adjusted to drop the quorum to 10%.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 04/13/2023 11:16 AM
In theory, it sounds like a good idea, but just as people have the right to vote, they also have the right not to. Granted it doesn't make any sense - surely, you can make the time to show up to at least ONE meeting a year, cast your vote, and then go back to whatever you were doing. But people don't do that - and then wonder why they weren't aware of major community issues (these folks usually aren't reviewing board meeting minutes or the association's income/expense statements either).

Then you get into the "how small is a small fine" issue, what do you do if you later find someone didn't vote due to a bonafide issue like a medical emergency, where is all this money going, yada, yada, yada. I think it would probably be easier for you to poll the community to see if the governing documents can be adjusted to drop the quorum to 10%.

Sound advice.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 04/13/2023 9:44 AM
Forgot the obvious one: amend your bylaws unless the 50% quorum is set by state law. Ours is 15%, and the state next door to mine just passed a law that sets the quorum at 10% unless a community's bylaws have it higher.

Almost all the Bylaws I have read over the years have a quorum requirement, if old, they are 50% or more. How does lowering to 10% unless Bylaws are higher help anyone?
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaxB4 on 04/13/2023 11:30 AM
Posted By CathyA3 on 04/13/2023 9:44 AM
Forgot the obvious one: amend your bylaws unless the 50% quorum is set by state law. Ours is 15%, and the state next door to mine just passed a law that sets the quorum at 10% unless a community's bylaws have it higher.


Almost all the Bylaws I have read over the years have a quorum requirement, if old, they are 50% or more. How does lowering to 10% unless Bylaws are higher help anyone?

Ask the Kentucky legislators. I don't pretend to understand their thought processes.
RobinL7 (North Carolina)
Posts: 45
Posted:
I don’t think legally you can fine members for non-attendance, unless you amend your CC&Rs, which usually requires a whopping 67% membership vote (Chapter 47C. North Carolina Condominium Act.), and no way this would pass IMO, even if you only needed a simple majority vote of the membership to amend your CC&Rs. Before even considering this however, I would consult an attorney, but as others have noted, I don’t think it’s a good idea.

However, I think you can amend your Bylaws to help with this problem, fairly easily.

I live in NC too, and we went through this a while back, where our quorum (as stated in our Bylaws) for membership meetings was 50% (this is too high, I agree), and it was changed to 33%. I think you are governed by “Statute 47C. North Carolina Condominium Act”, right? This is a similar document that governs our LOA, “47F Planned Community Act (PCA)”.

My suggestion: Have the Board include in the Annual Membership Meeting notification “Agenda”, (or Special Meeting notification Agenda) that membership vote(s) will be held to amend the Bylaws at the meeting, and I would go ahead and include the amendments you want the members to vote on. "From the Condominium Act: "…on the agenda, including the general nature of any proposed amendment to the declaration or bylaws”. Remember the membership has to be notified of any vote held at the meeting, and they must be notified “Not less than 10 nor more than 60 days in advance of any meeting”.

AT the meeting: 1st - Vote on the “method” of amending the Bylaws (unless you already have this included), (you can make is 2/3 of the members present in person or by proxy (as we did), or even a simple majority.)
At the meeting: 2nd - Vote to change the quorum requirement at membership meetings. The Condominium Act, recommends 20% attendance of members, in person or proxy, (we made it 33%). And of course, as per statute, whatever that meeting quorum is, will be halved if a second meeting is required.
Good Luck!

See supporting “NC Condominium Act” language. (I would still run this by an attorney.)

§ 47C-3-102. Powers of unit owners' association.
(a) Unless the declaration expressly provides to the contrary, the association, even if unincorporated, may do all of the following:
(1) Adopt and amend bylaws and rules and regulations.

§ 47C-3-106. Bylaws
(a) The bylaws of the association shall provide for:
(6) The method of amending the bylaws.

§ 47C-3-108. Meetings.
(a) A meeting of the association shall be held at least once each year. Special meetings of the association may be called by the president, a majority of the executive board, or by unit owners having twenty percent (20%) or any lower percentage specified in the bylaws of the votes in the association…..The notice of any meeting must state the time and place of the meeting and the items on the agenda, including the general nature of any proposed amendment to the declaration or bylaws,

§ 47C-3-109. Quorums.
(a)Unless the bylaws provide otherwise, a quorum is deemed present throughout any meeting of the association if persons entitled to cast twenty percent (20%) of the votes which may be cast for election of the executive board are present in person or by proxy at the beginning of the meeting.

(c) In the event business cannot be conducted at any meeting because a quorum is not present, that meeting may be adjourned to a later date by the affirmative vote of a majority of those present in person or by proxy. Notwithstanding any provision to the contrary in the declaration or the bylaws, the quorum requirement at the next meeting shall be one-half of the quorum requirement applicable to the meeting adjourned for lack of a quorum.

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
North Korea has compulsory voting and it works for them.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
MarkS42 (North Carolina)
Posts: 70
Posted:
Thanks everyone for the comments and taking your time to post. Having a small community has its challenges. The use of attorneys is somewhat of a luxury as the costs affect the budget to a greater percent. Having a sound board to throw ideas out is nice. Ultimately I would like to get the Bylaws amended but for the next budget I may add to meeting expenses to give out Amazon cards to the owners who send in their electronic ballot.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 04/13/2023 12:11 PM
Posted By MaxB4 on 04/13/2023 11:30 AM
Posted By CathyA3 on 04/13/2023 9:44 AM
Forgot the obvious one: amend your bylaws unless the 50% quorum is set by state law. Ours is 15%, and the state next door to mine just passed a law that sets the quorum at 10% unless a community's bylaws have it higher.


Almost all the Bylaws I have read over the years have a quorum requirement, if old, they are 50% or more. How does lowering to 10% unless Bylaws are higher help anyone?


Ask the Kentucky legislators. I don't pretend to understand their thought processes.

Actually the phrase "unless the Bylaws state higher" is for Board meetings, not member meetings.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Mark

I have seen situations where people that vote, attend the Annual Meting, etc. are entered in a drawing for say a $100.00 Gift Card to Lowes.

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