HOA Board members and Permits for work

I'm a new member of an HOA Condo board in Florida and I have mentioned to the board that they have had work done on specific projects within the community that require permits however the permits were not pulled and the past board members did nothing to get this issue solved. Some of the old board members are still active on the current board, What is my recourse on this as I feel it is a MAJOR liability to the Association... Is this a breach of the past board members' fiduciary duty?

A lawsuit can result in expenses that far exceed any penalties for the lack of permits. These expenses can include insurance premiums going through the roof (with assessments following them) or loss of insurance altogether. In addition, the outcome of a lawsuit is not guaranteed - you can end up pretty much where you started, but with less money in your pocket.

Also, how did you determine that permits weren't pulled? Did you look at association records, or did you assume from the lack of records that the permit never existed? Does a local governmental agency make the info available to the public? Were you on the board when this happened, so you have personal knowledge? (I'm assuming not since it sounds like you want to hold people accountable.) Other?

What is the scope of the problem: is the un-permitted work a threat to life and limb, or is it minor? How do you correct it? I'd be a lot more worried about un-inspected electrical work performed by an un-licensed electrician in a residential building than I would about a rebuilt decorative something-or-other at the community's entrance.

I agree with Michael that this is a good project to tackle. I also agree on the likelihood of push back if you want to spent big bucks on an issue that is pretty much invisible to everyone. You may have to raise the specter of Surfside to get people's attention, and even that may not be enough.

If you do choose to go the legal route, you'll be limited in what you can do as a board member since you'd be acting against the association because of actions taken by past boards. You'd almost certainly have to resign. If you're not sure, you should consult with your own attorney (not the association's attorney since you're a potential adversary at this point and the attorney can't advise you).

Cathy,
the specific items installed are major electrical items on 2 different buildings. Both buildings are used by the entire community. I know if I keep pushing the chips will fall as I've already been threatened to turn and look away. Permits are public records. Would this be considered a breach of fiduciary duties to those past board members that are still serving as they had knowledge of this issue?
I'm totally aware of the legal liability on the Association if a fire were to occur caused by these items. I'm also aware of the issues this can cause with insurance in the event of an issue.....

What are my options I guess?

Cathy has often said, and I agree, that when it comes to association issues, you can either (1) live with it (2) move or (3) work to try and resolve the problem. I think everyone has given you the options, so the real question is what are you willing to do to get this fixed and are you ready to deal with the ensuing fallout, which may get really ugly? We can't predict what will happen, so think about it carefully and perhaps talk to a few of your neighbors.

Most issues like this stand a better chance of being resolved when several people get involved. It's one thing to blow you off, but if several homeowners also express concerns, the board will have to respond Or you can rally together enough people to recall the board - and then appoint others to take over (and one may need to be you) That'll put you in the hot seat for this and other issues - do you have the backbone to try?

Are you sure the Board didn't have the contractor pull the permits? There are two options. You can pull the permits yourself or make it part of the contract terms with the contractor. So if you don't see a permit "pulled" it may be because the other party did it.

the whole premise sounds ridiculous.
the hoa paid to get work done and paid contractors who didn't pull permits? Why would they do that? in order to save a few dollars?

it is quite common for "handymen" without licenses to charge much cheaper rates and do work on the sly.

And the city never inspected this work in a condo? If the city did inspect it, they would require a permit.

might want to get yoru accusations verified before going further ahead.

I've done my homework. No permits were pulled and a board member used someone they knew rather than going with the vendor the board President approved which was a reputable vendor. The board member that made the decision to use said vendor is now working on getting permits now that this had been brought to light, however, as of today no permits have been pulled and the vendor's insurance is expired. It's a MESS, to say the least. I have to say a couple of board members run the property manager in circles and won't allow them to do their job.

What I'm hearing here makes this sound like it's common practice and a drawn-out process to get them booted. In a nutshell, these people need to go as from what I see they are putting the Association at risk at a minimum. Now I just have to find out how I can get them to resign.

Kerry---sad to say but the HOA attorney didn't review any documents, the bids the current President won't allow me to see because it was before my time on the board. I have emails from the past President approving a vendor that was reputable and the Treasurer at that time decided to use someone he knew instead.

The actual work was completed last year and it took me becoming elected to the board to raise the question at which time the current board President said the property manager tried to get the issue resolved but was not successful in doing so..at that time I instructed the property manager to forward all information to me so I could step in and get this issue resolved ASAP, the current President sent a less than friendly email to all board members calling me everything but a gentleman and said he would get everything handled, well that was over two weeks ago and here we sit.......no traction.

Ellen-
yes, I'm a newbie to boards. with that being said I'm also a businessman in a totally different field and I have over 30 years of experience in the construction field and residential and commercial property ownership. Those items are my hobbies if you will.
Thanks for the input

Michael,
thanks for the input. I hear what your saying loud and clear

Florida HOA statute 720 requires bids from companies that were not chosen to do the work to be kept as official records for one year. You should be able to request those officially just like any other homeowner.

some codes people would reqire the drywall be ripped out to make sure the wires are stapled to code. if you get a lienient guy he might just check the outlets/switches.

Full decision is here:
https://4dca.flcourts.gov/content/download/861249/opinion/213528_DC05_03012023_100030_i.pdf

The court's decision and FS 617.07401 "Members' Derivative Actions" (in the Florida Nonprofit Corp statute) are a how-to for protecting against, and defeating, an owner's derivative lawsuit. Very cool, IMO.

Permits are funny in some ways when you travel across the World and America you see Buildings and other structures 100s of years Old before permits still standing strong then see something built after Permits and inspections up the back side and there fallen down.