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WayneK1 (Texas)
Posts: 5
Posted:
I live in Texas and my HOA is over 2,000 homes and growing. So far, the Board is made up of our HOA Management, a Builder and 1 Homeowner. The HOA follows the announcement rules (144 hours in advance). However, after getting invited on at least 2 different forms of media, I call (Zoom) in.

My issue is, after getting invited twice, when I got on the call my audio was permanently muted. I later learned that I was welcome to listen in but my feedback was not welcome. Also, the meetings are held on Wednesdays at 1pm - not a very convenient time for many.

This cannot be acceptable. My HOA Manager acknowledged that this practice is not covered in the Governing Docs.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Right now, it appears the developer runs the show until the community's turned over to the homeowners, so there may not be a lot you can do about being able to speak. Remember, this is a BUSINESS meeting, and you can't have people interrupting or spend a ton of time on assorted questions because there's an agenda and no one wants to be at a meeting for half the night.

That said, I think association meetings should allow a brief period for resident comments. In case you're not familiar with them, resident forums are usually 10-15 minutes where owners can make general comments, criticize or make suggestions on any association issue. The board isn't obligated to address the issue immediately - sometimes the topic might already be part of the agenda. Other issues may call for more investigation and either the board or property manager will follow up with the homeowner. For a Zoom meeting, some organizations use the chat feature for homeowners to make comments without interrupting the meeting. These are usually monitored and sometimes the monitor will note certain questions or comments for the board's response at that time.

Governing documents are usually written for the developer's benefit and there is a lot of cut and pasting going on because that's faster than tailoring the documents to specific communities. Reviewing the documents periodically is something the board should strive to do at least every 5-7 years as state and local law can change, and you may also find some original provisions don't work for the community, depending on how it's evolved since the homeowners took over. In your case, once the developer takes over, job one should be to review the documents with the association attorney so all references to the developer are deleted. You won't address everything at once, but another think you could look at is virtual meetings. Remember, this has really hit its side in the last three years, mostly because of COVID and so I wouldn't expect the documents to address them.

You might want to suggest to the developer that Zoom meetings (or Microsoft Teams or whatever the association uses) allows time for a resident forum

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
One interesting thing to ponder: the practicalities of holding a homeowner forum in a community of this size. In practice I can't see any way to accommodate everyone who would want to speak, which means the board is going to have to come up with alternative methods of allowing homeowner questions and feedback.

Hopefully this community is divided into sub-associations which will have their own boards and board meetings - that can help organize HOA governance into manageable pieces. Otherwise I pity the board that would have to deal with the entire community all at the same time.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WayneK1 on 04/05/2023 6:29 AM
I live in Texas and my HOA is over 2,000 homes and growing. So far, the Board is made up of our HOA Management, a Builder and 1 Homeowner. The HOA follows the announcement rules (144 hours in advance). However, after getting invited on at least 2 different forms of media, I call (Zoom) in.

My issue is, after getting invited twice, when I got on the call my audio was permanently muted. I later learned that I was welcome to listen in but my feedback was not welcome. Also, the meetings are held on Wednesdays at 1pm - not a very convenient time for many.

This cannot be acceptable.
In Texas, it is acceptable and legal to prohibit owner input and comments at board meetings. See TPC 209.0051 at https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PR/htm/PR.209.htm.

You can always write the manager with any concerns you have.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Welcome, to the forum, Wayne. It's possible that what your subject line calls an "HOA Meeting" is in reality a meeting of the board of directors, AKA a "board meeting." During a board meeting, owners do not have the right to speak or participate. They are present as observers.

Open forums are a time when Owners, as Shelia points out, can speak, ask questions, etc. Boards can make rules about how they are conducted. Some states like CA require an open forum. I think Texas does, but can't quite remember. ElleN's citation probably can inform you. If TX does require an open forum, it probably is defined in your Bylaws. Also, maybe in your Bylaws is how long the developer can be in control

Along with Cathy, can we assume that your really large HOA will be divided into "sub-associations?"
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Wayne

Typically a time will be set aside for owner input. That said you will only be allowed to speak during that time. Typically you are not allowed to speak any time you feel like it. A meeting is not done in a Town Hall format.
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Wayne,
Unfortunately, while the builder/developer is in control of the board you will have to follow the developers' rules. You did mention that a Single owner is on the board. This person is your best shot reach out to and see if they can help. They were probably handpicked by the developer and are not going to push too hard against the developer's path forward. As they Homes sell, they will slowly lose power on the board and ultimately the owners will be the 5 members on the HOA board. This can take years.

Next meeting check and see if they have a Homeowners forum at the beginning of the meeting. This is where owners can speak for usually less than 3 minutes for a total of less than 20 minutes total. If you are zoomed in this happens at the very beginning and closes quickly. After that all owners will be muted and put on listen only.
BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821
Posted:
Owners have the right to attend and observe board meetings. They do not have the right to speak or participate in them.

Many boards find that it is helpful to their relationship with the membership to allow an open forum for owner questions, but there is nothing on the state property code that requires it.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Thanks for that info, Barbara.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BarbaraT1 on 04/05/2023 2:01 PM
Owners have the right to attend and observe board meetings. They do not have the right to speak or participate in them.

Many boards find that it is helpful to their relationship with the membership to allow an open forum for owner questions, but there is nothing on the state property code that requires it.

This how I see it.
WayneK1 (Texas)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Our By laws say that the HOs will take control and set up a 5 member board once the neighborhood buildout reaches 75% of the acreage. Our neighborhood is 20 years-ish old. New building is going on like crazy though. How do I get an independent review of the percentage of build out?

Thanks,

Wayne
WayneK1 (Texas)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Also, the reason I ask this is because looking at a map, our neighborhood is built out way beyond 75% but my HOA Manager (board member) and our HO rep are tight with the developers. None of the current group want to turn over the neighborhood to HOs.
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Wayne,
I am no expert of the developer turnover. Both of the HOAs I have been involved in already had completed the turnover before I bought into the HOA. I believe the info you need is in your DADs or Declarations. Typically, the developer gets the voting rights for the unsold lots in the development. Most developers have hired the PMC and they are vested in keeping their meal ticket happy so even once your HOA is in the residents' hands you really need to keep that in mind. I always recommend that the PMC should be replaced after turnover.

Not sure what part of Texas you live in but many times smaller HOAs can do a great job.
BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217
Posted:
Wayne

We live in a 105 SFH sub-association of a 9,300 member master association on the NE side of the DFW Metroplex. The master association was incorporated in 1986, it took over 20 years to reach the 75% threshold for turnover so don't let the number of years involved mislead you.

There is no reason the association office should not be able to tell you the existing percentage of build-out, they undoubtedly know it to a couple of figures to the right of the decimal. It certainly should not be confidential information. The builder/developer advertising brochures may be helpful as they often specify how many homes will be built. If you run into a stone wall, you may be able to obtain a reasonably close estimate of build-out from the county Central Assessment District database by comparing the homes on the tax rolls to the number planned to be built.

As to your original post, the scenario you describe is exactly the process followed by most associations in this state in my experience or based on the posts of others in Texas who participate on this forum. As was described, there is often (closer to always) an "Owners Forum" when the Board (not Owners) meeting begins (or sometimes at the end), owners are allowed to speak for up to three minutes on a topic of their choice. Once the meeting is called to order, while owners are welcome to attend, they may not speak unless invited to do so--meaning even if you raise your hand, the person leading the meeting may not call upon you. If the meeting leader is doing a good job, he or she may take a timeout for a moment to explain that owner comments are not allowed once the meeting is underway, even if a hand is raised. In smaller associations, like our sub-association, the Board often permits those in attendance to comment as 10 in attendance is a large turnout and there is little to nothing at all on the agenda that is in the least controversial as all the amenities, architectural changes, and compliance matters are managed by the master association.

The Board of our master association meets monthly, often as not the meeting minutes contain the statement "no owners appeared to comment during the Owners Forum" If owners do appear to comment, it is always less than five or six persons and many of their issues appear as though they could have been solved by a quick call to the Association office.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Wayne

Typically your Covenants will outline takeover time. It can be a specific date. It can be when a certain number of units are sold. It can alos have wording that the declarant can add more phases thus turnover might never happen. I know of one Sun City development like this meaning phases are added thus they never see turnover happening. I thing this is how the Villages operate.
WayneK1 (Texas)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Assuming the current Developer run HOA is not interested in handing over the neighborhood, what steps are to be taken to press for the transition? Is it the current Board's obligation to turn over the neighborhood when the qualifications are met or is the burden on the HOs responsibility to force the issue? I know we have over 75% capacity and we are locked in space wise. Now may be a good time to make any notices or whatever with teh annual meeting in September.
WayneK1 (Texas)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Assuming the current Developer run HOA is not interested in handing over the neighborhood, what steps are to be taken to press for the transition? Is it the current Board's obligation to turn over the neighborhood when the qualifications are met or is the burden on the HOs responsibility to force the issue? I know we have over 75% capacity and we are locked in space wise. Now may be a good time to make any notices or whatever with teh annual meeting in September.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Since you don't know if the developer is really interested in leaving or not, you may as well ask them and see what happens. They may tell you the truth, ignore you or give you an estimated timeline (and since it's an estimate, you can't really nail them to that). As Bill noted, it could take years to reach 75%, 90% or whatever is the magic number to prompt the departure.

I suspect some of this depends on the real estate market - currently, the housing inventory is said to be low, although I wonder about that (it's still very difficult to find affordable housing) Perhaps this developer wants to squeeze as much money out of the community before they depart (making money at any cost is the American Way, after all).

To get them to leave now would likely mean the homeowners would have to make a bunch of concessions to push the deal through (e.g. your documents said the community will have a clubhouse with a fitness center and indoor pool, but if you leave by the middle of next year, we'll release you from that). That would likely mean a vote by all the homeowners because this is a significant change to the sales agreement. You might want them gone right now, but what would you be willing to give up for that to happen? And do you think your neighbors would agree?

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
A little reinforcement for Wayne from TPC 209.00951 (c):

"Regardless of the period of declarant control provided by the declaration, on or before the 120th day after the date 75 percent of the lots that may be created and made subject to the declaration are conveyed to owners other than a declarant or a builder in the business of constructing homes who purchased the lots from the declarant for the purpose of selling completed homes built on the lots, at least one-third of the board members must be elected by owners other than the declarant. If the declaration does not include the number of lots that may be created and made subject to the declaration, at least one-third of the board members must be elected by owners other than the declarant not later than the 10th anniversary of the date the declaration was recorded."

Quote:
Posted By WayneK1 on 04/06/2023 11:16 AM
Assuming the current Developer run HOA is not interested in handing over the neighborhood, what steps are to be taken to press for the transition? Is it the current Board's obligation to turn over the neighborhood when the qualifications are met or is the burden on the HOs responsibility to force the issue? I know we have over 75% capacity and we are locked in space wise. Now may be a good time to make any notices or whatever with teh annual meeting in September.
I am going to take you at your word that in fact all requirements for turnover have been met.

Turnover is a contractual term, as detailed in the covenants. To enforce a contractual term, one starts with a polite but formal request, sent to the Declarant's registered agent certified mail, return receipt requested. Example:

Dear Declarant,

Declaration sections ___, ____ and ___ give the requirements for when turnover of the association must happen. I believe all these requirements have been met. As you know, the covenants are contractual terms between the owners here and the association. Please arrange for ___, ___ and ___, and begin the turnover process.

Within ten days, please provide a calendar indicating when you intend to complete steps ___,___ and ___.

Thank you,

name
address
phone
email addie

After you have sent this letter and ten days have passed, report back here with the outcome.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WayneK1 on 04/06/2023 11:16 AM
Assuming the current Developer run HOA is not interested in handing over the neighborhood, what steps are to be taken to press for the transition? Is it the current Board's obligation to turn over the neighborhood when the qualifications are met or is the burden on the HOs responsibility to force the issue? I know we have over 75% capacity and we are locked in space wise. Now may be a good time to make any notices or whatever with teh annual meeting in September.

yep you better start writing letters and getting responses now so you have this nailed down by Sept. it can take some time.

vis ta vie

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