PMC - "Inclusive Contract" vs "Semi-Inclusive"

How many homes are in the community? This could be for Deed Restriction violation notices over the course of a year, or Annual Meeting Notices since often times those are required in the governing documents to me sent via US Mail and can not be emailed. Could also be an amount that was held over from previous budget when you PMC charged for every mailing. I would confirm and reconfirm that the current PMC is not billing extra for Annual Statement mailings (inclusive in your contract). That would seem odd to me, but it is entirely possible.

Lisa - I was told we don't have to pay for postage for things like that. 800 Single Family Residences

Tim - yes I have, he said for the next year it is being reduced by 1/3 but he won't give specifics. (We have had this PMC for over 2 years now) Keep in mind this board has cut Regular Meetings down to every other month, and I only get 3 minutes per meeting, so it is hard to get any real answers

Didn't know Arkansas had such rules.

James - just remember a budget is a budget, not money spent. If you come in under that number then perhaps budget for next year can be smaller based on 2023 actual. Probably best to try to find out what was actually spent in the line item last year to get a better read on the situation. Am I to understand that you are not on the Board at this time?

You do realize the cost of paper and postage has spiked in recent years, correct? And postage goes up when each mailing has several pieces of paper. For example, my community mails the upcoming year's budget in late November because our documents require homeowners to receive it and notice of the new assessment (we pay monthly). We also send the collection and snow removal policies.

All that plus a cover letter increases the weight of the envelope, and when you multiply that by the number of homes, you begin to see why it costs. And don't forget the price of the ink used to print all this stuff, as well as the electricity used to run the printer and someone has to be paid to stuff all this stuff into the envelope. Add more electricity if they use a machine to stuff the envelopes.

You're asking good questions about costs and seem to recognize there's a lot that goes into a HOA budget than you may realize. Everything isn't a money grab and whether you get elected or not, I think you should start educating yourself on what it takes. I often recommend people go to the community association institute website (CAI) and purchase sone of their education materials. They're aimed at new and experienced board members, and cover a number of issues, from reserve studies to rule enforcement. There are also webinars on certain topics and you can check if there's a local chapter in your area that might sponsor live training (it has returned).

As for the mailing in your community, you may want to consider the type of mail you get from the association every year and ask how a mailing costs. Use that information to educate homeowners as to why you'd like to see more people accept information by email. You'll have to check your documents as well because some correspondence must be sent via snail mail, and you should still accommodate peopke who don't have access to the internet - a lot of elderly people still prefer paper because they like to hold something in their hands.

While you're at it, does your community have a website? That would be a great way to distribute information and speed up sone tasks, like posting an online form for clubhouse rental or exterior change requests. You should also encourage paying assessments online - if you use coupon books, you could reduce costs if a significant number of people pay that way, eithrough a portal run by tye property manager, your association's bank ir they can use bill pay at their own banks.

As you probably know, James, in CA virtually all the materials ElleN mentions are sent via eblasts to owners nowadays. Draft minutes aren't even sent at all unless an owner requests a copy 30 days after the board meeting. Other materials, e.g., he annual budget & reserves package, which does include a LOT of pages may be sent electronically too, if owners opt in. Most in my HOA do.

Where Has can spend a ton is if they send out proposed amended CC&Rs with ballots, which only may be sent USPS in CA. Ditto amended bylaws/ballots.

As someone else advised, compare your budget for this year with expenses form last yer on the relevant line items.

Lisa - I understand the budget, but we have had this 'inclusive' PMC for over 2 years now, yet we are still budgeting a lot of money for postage. And no, not on the board at this point so info is very limited

Sheila - same thing, 'they' (Board Member) says we don't pay for postage, yet we budget $15k for postage. Inclusive is supposed to be Inclusive... California has a new law for 2023 - you can get everything by email but you have to state your preference

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"Effective January 1, 2023, documents and notices that are required to be provided by “individual notice” or “individual delivery” must be delivered in accordance with the “preferred delivery method” specified by the member under Civil Code § 4041. Associations may find themselves in the administratively difficult position of delivering notices four different ways:

Mail to some members (§ 4041(a)(1)(A));
Email to other members (§ 4041(a)(1)(B));
Mail plus Email to a third group of members (§ 4041(a)(1)); and
No Preference: If a member does not provide a preferred delivery method, notices must be delivered by "first-class mail, registered or certified mail, express mail, or overnight delivery by an express service carrier addressed to the recipient at the address last shown on the books of the association." (§ 4040(a)(2))
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The PMC uses a ComWebPortal but have not made a push or have tried very hard to get everyone to sign up. These is even a Calendar section that was not used at all for 2 years until I brought it to their attention and now they started using it. We can pay on line but some people don't like to give up access to my account. I have my bank mail a check every month, but their lockbox setup (or whatever they call it) is so spotty, people are always complaining that if they use the bank mailing a check method, a lot of times they get a late penalty. I gave up and just pay a month in advance so I always have a credit (not worth the hassle to me)

Ellen - Inclusive, they are supposed to be paying all the postage???? This was a big thing with the last PMC because people felt they were making money everytime they mailed out a letter and we were paying postage at that time. Again, over 2 years ago though

Kerry - I had to fight with them over 'Draft' notices - they don't voluntarily send them out, don't ask me why. I am currently fighting with the HOA attorney about some documents I requested. He said I have to drive to the PMC's office (remember - different County) to pick up a hard copy and pay 15¢ per page, and I said I specifically requested the records in electronic format... Still haven't heard back from him

And as I posted before, the PMC recently sent out a 25 page 'update to our ARC' guidelines and didn't include what had changed or the 'purpose & effect' of the change, which is required... Again, they said that the HOA didn't have to pay for that mailing which was well over $800. Jan 1 2023 law, I specifically requested for individual and general delivery notices be sent by email

I am trying to confirm what I think is going on by posting here, so when I talk with the Board I will at least have some knowledge of the subject. Later, the homeowners need to be made aware of some of these 'issues' which I believe will help drive the 'get out and vote' movement.

Basically, this is what happened with the last board - they all got voted out primarily because people were upset with the 'traffic shaping' markings and they way we were treated by the PMC

James, when you get a copy of the contract and identify whether it excludes the costs of postage, then you might be able to say something meaningful on this.

Until then, I figure "inclusive" might mean that there's no charge for labor beyond what is specified in the contract.

Now that you have this information why do you still thing it was suppose to be included? Obviously you were given bad information. Sounds like the case is closed.

Neither you nor any owner should put much faith in what at board member "says." They often are ignorant about many things . Read foryourslef.

Our board's treasurer is ignorant too. That title can have zero meaning. Luckily, we have a pretty good Finance Committee.

Look, the rule change proposal notices ONLY is required to be posted somewhere on your premises in CA, but our in HOA and most in CA, I imagine, are sent by email to owners for that 28-day comment period. You were doing some good research at Davis-stirling.com. Look uo "Rules," and lo read their materials about what must be sent by USPS. And re-read my way above,.

Then use the information to refresh the BOD's memory. Also typical for a yearly contract to continue as unless either side cancels it. As an example the only thing that might change in our Landscaping Contract is the cost. The terms stay the same so we "verbally" renew it.