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RonW13 (Virginia)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Have any HOAtalk.com members ever entcountered a dispute about an association having a no-golf cart rule? If so, was it litigated, or was it resolved via a negotiated settlement? If it was litigated, was the no-golf cart rule deemed "reasonable by the courts, or "unreasonable.? Many thanks for your input. Ron Whitney
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
FYI: I would keep your personal information off the internet...

If you don't like the rules the HOA has, it is better to change them INTERNALLY than EXTERNALLY. Why need to jump to a lawsuit? Why not jump into your HOA rules? If people want to allow Golf carts then follow the instructions on how to get that changed and filed. It's not easy but it is possible and recommended process. Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors. So going to court benefits little in the end but the lawyers. Best to look internally on how to make the proper changes.

Former HOA President
RonW13 (Virginia)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Hi Melissa: All good advice, thank you. I agree our internal procedures do indeed provide the ability to modify or discontinue existing rules via a majority vote of the residents. However, our fact pattern is that our enforcement efforts have failed, (via violation notices & attorney follow-up), and the golf cart remains. The violator has not filed a lawsuit against us, nor do they intend to. Further, our D&O policy does not cover us - since the board has not technically been charged with negilgence. There are no on-point cases about the "reasonableness" of no-golf cart rule, (the standard courts use to judge the validity of a rule), that we or our attorney are aware of. We are looking at costly our of pocket legal fees if we pursue the enforcement in court, with no guarantee of success, and the majority of the board refuses to even consider negotiating with the violator.
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
What if anything do your governing documents say about vehicles and are your roads public or private? If public, would this person be breaking any laws?
RonW13 (Virginia)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Our bylaws ban recreational vehicles (RV's) & our Rules and Regs spefically ban golf carts, (however, while the board's May 2017 version of the rule that with the no-golf cart rule was never properly promulgated by the board, via a board resolution or other promulgation document - a point the violator's lawyer has harped-on). We have a private road circle with 22 homes and the HOA is responsible for maintaining the road. The County we reside in permits golf carts on public roads, subject to speed and licensing requirements. Hence the violator would not be breaking County laws - only our HOA Rule.
The bizarre thing is that 75% of our homes are either directly abut a golf course hole, or have direct views of the golf course. The community was built originally in 1982 as a golf course community and the houses were all rented to golfers. Only when a demand grew to buy the homes did the owner of the community (& owner of the golf course), sell the homes and create the HOA. The no golf cart rule was a carry-over from his ownership of the homes BEFORE they became private homes. He wanted the tenants to rent the carts from the gold course that he owned - not becuase he had anything against golf carts per se, rather that he wanted the golf cart revenue. Rules have to be in line with the purpose of the community, based on our history I'm concerned that a judge would ask..."why did you move to a community that is on a golf course, if you don't like golf carts?" And render a decision invalidating our no-golf cart rule.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
It may be how your trying to enforce the rules violations. You have to see what the process is. Can your HOA do fines? If so, does it have a "fining schedule". That is a document that lines out what is considered a fine and the rate it is fined at to the max amount. This has to be distributed amongst ALL the members to know what is finable and what it costs for violations.

Just because it is written to be a violation doesn't mean there is an actual process of punitive punishment. Which punitive punishment like fines are not subject to liens or foreclosures. (Liens can be with some 'questionable math). This is often what many don't understand about their HOA and why nothing gets enforced. Fines are like speeding tickets for the HOA and not a profit making venture.

Also I would question if you have an attorney who has the response of "I will do whatever you tell me to do". This can be a huge red flag. It could mean they are not offering all of the advice your may need to make a proper use of the attorney services or even need of them. Not to say that them saying that is a bad thing. It should be said AFTER ALL options have been discussed and evaluated. A lien may or may not take a lawyer to file. You don't need a retainer for a lawyer unless involved in a long term lawsuit etc... You also don't need a "Real Estate" attorney or one exclusive for HOA's. Educate yourself on how best to hire a lawyer and what kind. This can save lots of money. Plus only have one assigned POC to talk to them.

Former HOA President
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
A golf course community banning golf carts, now that is priceless.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RonW13 on 03/23/2023 8:05 AM
while the board's May 2017 version of the rule that with the no-golf cart rule was never properly promulgated by the board, via a board resolution or other promulgation document - a point the violator's lawyer has harped-on).
Why do you think the violator's lawyer does not have a point?

Did the violator go out and buy an electric golf cart in reasonable reliance that using it on the grounds was allowed?

Also: What purpose, if any, does this ban on electric golf carts on the HOA's private roads serve?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
The rule was self serving. Banning them is not reasonable.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 03/23/2023 11:59 AM
The rule was self serving. Banning them is not reasonable.
Thank you for reminding me of the stated history of the rule. I agree.
RonW13 (Virginia)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Oh, I absolutley DO agree the violator's lawyer has an excellent point - not having the 2017 Rules properly promulgated/ratified leaves a hole big enough for a truck
to drive through. It could lead to a Summary Judgment for the violators, if it ever gets to court. However, the majority of our board does not agree with me. Nor do they agree
that the no-golf cart rule is unreasonable - they claim golf carts parked in our community driveways are unsightly, (we don't have garages to store them in), and thereby negatively impact their peace and enjoyment of the community. I don't believe a common sense judge who is briefed on the history and location of the community, (ie., ON A GOLF COURSE), would agree that tasteful golf carts represents a substantive intrusion on their enjoyment of the community.
No, the violator new of the rule, they even signed a document upon buying the home that they's abide by the rules, which mentioned the golf cart rule - but they chose to challenge it seemingly because of the defect in our board meeting docs from 2017.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RonW13 on 03/23/2023 12:29 PM
Oh, I absolutley DO agree the violator's lawyer has an excellent point - not having the 2017 Rules properly promulgated/ratified leaves a hole big enough for a truck
to drive through. It could lead to a Summary Judgment for the violators, if it ever gets to court. However, the majority of our board does not agree with me. Nor do they agree
that the no-golf cart rule is unreasonable - they claim golf carts parked in our community driveways are unsightly, (we don't have garages to store them in), and thereby negatively impact their peace and enjoyment of the community. I don't believe a common sense judge who is briefed on the history and location of the community, (ie., ON A GOLF COURSE), would agree that tasteful golf carts represents a substantive intrusion on their enjoyment of the community.
No, the violator new of the rule, they even signed a document upon buying the home that they's abide by the rules, which mentioned the golf cart rule - but they chose to challenge it seemingly because of the defect in our board meeting docs from 2017.
-- I say no way would a summary judgment be granted to either side here. Summary judgement means both sides agree on the facts and that the black letter law says the case must be decided in favor of ____. I do not see agreement on the facts here.

-- The HOA could easily argue that the notice of the rule was constructive, meaning yes, the rules maybe were not promulgated, but the Declaration and state law speak of board created rules and the owner signed off indicating awareness there are rules.

-- I agree that the argument that golf carts is unsightly, so the Board can create a rule (with little-to-no basis in the covenants) banning golf carts is weak. Board-created rules have to have some basis in the covenants. The vaguer covenants (about the board's powers to regulate the exterior of homes) are, the better the chance an owner has of prevailing. The courts say, roughly: 'Vague and ambiguous' in a covenant means the covenant is supposed to be interpreted in favor of 'free enjoyment of property.'

-- Plus see JohnC46's point, about how the original purpose of the rule was clearly different way back when.

-- Enter reality in deciding how to vote (as a director) here. -- I would vote for throwing out the rule and not pursuing a violation against this owner.

-- It's hard to say who would win here, but if this landed in court, I would bet the owner would win. Does the board really want to spend money on defending a weak position?

-- Watch out for HOA attorneys who will be happy to do whatever the board wants, all to pay for their summer home in Blue Ridge Mountains.

-- A board majority here is going to do whatever. I hope the board does not make this a hill on which to die.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Does your state DVM issue license plates and register golf carts? I do not see how your HOA can prohibit a legally licensed and registered vehicle
that is under 10,000# GVW. You would be begging for a lawsuit.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
install 6' privacy fence, park golf cart behind fence. problem solved.

vis ta vie
JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398
Posted:
Does the golf Cart owner have a disability?

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