Capital Projects - does the PMC get a cut?

If an HOA has a major capital project and awards a single contract in the millions of dollars, is the PMC able to charge a fee (percentage or otherwise) or normally how does that work?

Ya, that is why I am asking and no, I am not on the board...yet

Pavement contract. Reserve study estimates 28 years and the board decided to to a full resurfacing 8 years early... Yes, there are some problem areas that need fixing, but once again, I wish the homeowners had a say in how our money is spent.

I am trying to figure out why they would do this that early, and I wanted to cross this off the list for the reason why. thx

What ElleN said.

You may not be on the board yet, but as an association member, you do have the right to request certain documents like the property management contract and the reserve study. Do you even know what a reserve study is? Has your community been following the funding recommendations? Perhaps these problem areas are more extensive than you know and by resurfacing now, the board may avoid more repairs and expenses in the future. Have you even asked the board about any of this?

If you haven't done these things, I suggest you start and get used to it because this will be your focus as a board member. As ElleN stated, the board members were elected to make decisions to benefit the entire community, because you don't always have the time to stop and poll everyone. If you've taken a close look at some of the conversations on this website, there are people who are incredibly short sighted when it comes to making those decisions - think of Surfside and the story behind that disaster, not to mention what's going on in Florida right now with homeowners insurance. In fact, ElleN had a recent conversation on a Washington Post article on the subject. Read that too.

That doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't ask questions, and no one wants to spend money if it isn't necessary, but sometimes you have no choice, and you must learn to think short and long term as a board member.

I did request the documents - waiting to get them and yes, they already started on the project but it is dragging on for well over 6 months now and they are only about 1/3 done.

Out last BOD spend over $100K on 'traffic shaping' in a similar manner - no input from from the homeowners, no real announcements, nobody really knew what was going on until it was too late. That board got replaced with our current BOD and they all pledged to be more transparent. One of them actually wrote:

"I want to put in place procedures that allow us to gather input from residents who are unable to attend monthly board meetings so that homeowners can feel confident that they have a say in how association funds are spent"

I went to the last board meeting and asked that Hybrid (Zoom) meetings be put on the next agenda - and guess what, totally ignored, didn't make the agenda...

Ellen - let me ask you, when the BOD spends over $5 Million 8 years earlier than when it was supposed to, don't you think the prudent thing to do would be to at least solicit some input from the homeowners, because I think they should have - especially after what happened with the traffic shaping at $100k

James,
The wording you used in your original post is somewhat confusing. You call the road resurfacing a Capitol project. I would refer to it as a Reserve fund expense which is totally different and has different rules to live by.

Not sure why the board would do it 8 years early unless it was very bad and easily noticeable. Everyone knows what bad roads look like and avoid the potholes. If yours is like this then it needs to be done if not spending this money early would raise some questions. The board ultimately makes these decisions. As someone who has been on boards for 14 years asking owners for input on this type of project would be a nightmare. You will have several sides of this and every argument. Some will say save the money because they plan on moving and could care less. Others will say spend the money, so I get more for the home I am about to sell. Then you have the people that would not spend money on anything. How do you make them all happy? You can't so the board needs to focus on doing the right thing and they were elected to make these decisions.

This is an excellent reply and I agree 100%. There are times for these types of projects that soliciting homeowner input and approval will prevent anything from getting done.

If an MC were to get a cut of the capital project, it would NOT be in the contractor's contract, but in the MCs contract, signed long before the project was considered.

If it's a large contract that might require additional hours to oversee, I could see the MC charging a fee.

If it's a simple tree removal, etc. then I would say that should be part of the initial contract with the MC.

To be sure what your MC may or may not charge, you will need to read a copy of their contract with the Association.

JamesB37, realistically, and apart from winning a seat on the board yourself, do you think there is something you can do to force the directors to do more than comply with the HOA's governing documents and state law?

If not, then this is why you are not getting input like, "Oh, the board should do xyz, and here's how you can force them to do xyz... "

Of course, you can question the president and what appears to be a really cozy relationship with the property manager, starting with "what makes the web designing/IT person qualified to be a property manager?" You should bring that up during the resident forum at the next board meeting (make sure several of your neighbors tag along to hear the answer). If there's no resident forum, email ALL the board members and ask why not. You can also ask them before or after the meeting - the meeting itself should be reserved for agenda items because it IS a business meeting, after all.

You say you're running for the board - you could bring that up if there's a "meet the candidates night." Keep personalities out of it - you may not like the president, but it's better to focus on his actions (or lack thereof) that smack of ethical problems. Be prepared to explain how and why the optics stink and while you're at it, why not ask the rest of the board why they're going along with this. Asking about the number of meetings is also a good idea, but remember, organization meetings should be about QUALITY, not quantity. Perhaps this board has found a way to get more done in less time, and has been able to reduce the number of meetings. You'll also find that out when you join.

You'll also find there are a lot of issues that need to be addressed and you won't be able to do all of it in one meeting because no one wants to be there all night. Coming to meetings prepared to discuss the issues and preparing an agenda that makes sense is a start. Just like your personal life, you have to set priorities.

Regarding the paving, this may be California where snow isn't necessarily a thing - although the last few weeks have shown its weather is beginning to look like the Midwest (witness the tornado in LA). However that doesn't make you a concrete expert - if you have concerns, it's ok to ask who evaluated the streets and perhaps review a report he or she gave the Board. If you haven't done that, you're going to have to come up with a better reason not to spend the money. It may not be that difficult, but you have to do the work and ask questions.

Finally, homeowners are adults (allegedly) - you say people like to feel they have some say in something because it's their money. Yes, but what's wrong with THEM attending meetings every now and them, reading board meeting minutes and contacting the board with questions or concerns? You're taking the time to ask - maybe you should ask your neighbors why they don't. Could it be they're actually doing things to keep informed like reviewing the annual budget and monthly income/expense reports to see where the money's going and what line items are costing more, then asking why. Have you attended EVERY meeting since moving into your community? If not, how do you know other people went to last month's meeting (that you may have missed) or were at the meeting where the board voted on the final budget?

Many of the posters here, including moi, are current or former board members and all of us have made this information available to homeowners so they can ask as many questions as they want. It would also help if they also made some suggestions besides "we don't have to spend money on THAT, do we?" Offering to do some research on potential vendors who might offer better quality of work at a more competitive price. That's what grownups do. No one will care for your home more than you and people make the time to work on things they really care about. You might be running into some homeowner apathy, which sadly, is a major problem in many HOAs. When you join the board, I hope you can come up with some ideas on how to turn that around in your community. If you do, let us know because some of us may be able to adapt it to ours.

Sheila some excellent comments, thanks

Yes we do have a residents forum where we are limited to 3 minutes (they time it) and I have attended all the board meeting since last fall when I woke up to what is going on in with this HOA.

In S Cal, in not unusual for people to have long commutes and spend hours on the road. Board meetings are held at 6:30 PM and frankly, a lot of people just can't make them, life does have it's priorities. That is why I thought moving to Hybrid/Zoom meetings would be beneficial to everyone - yet the Board refused to even put it on the agenda...

I think the board has found a way to get some things done, but I believe they are violating the 'open meeting' type laws that we have in doing so. (It is one of the topics I listed for an IDR that has yet to be scheduled)

Let's face it. Life can be a struggle at times - and unless something directly impacts them, some people don't care about things like Politics or what the HOA may be doing or not doing. (I WAS one of those people). You get into a routine and after the work day is over and you fought through S Cal traffic to get home, not very many people want to go sit in a HOA meeting. I get that. But it's 2023. Zoom is widely being used. We have a Web Portal with a calendar section - not a single thing is on the calendar.... I could go on, but I think you get the idea

I think a Board should consider a request from an owner, an item to be placed on the agenda.

James, according to https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/S/Setting-the-Agenda, an owner need only persuade just one director to ask for xyz to be put on the agenda, and the item is then supposed to be put on the agenda.

No director asked for hybrid/zoom meetings to be put on the agenda. I think one can interpret this as the matter having been considered by all directors, and the vote against hybrid/zoom meetings was unanimous.

I would focus on just getting on the board with owners who feel as you do.

My website uses the community name with 'HOA.com' at the end of it (ie 'OurCommunityHOA.com'). I also created a new email address using that domain name and registered it with the PMC. (I want to keep all my HOA emails separate from my personal emails)

Now the HOA Attorney is refusing to email copies of the documents I requested because he believes my new email address is 'misleading and confusing'...

How were open board meetings handled, James, during the pandemic?

At the next open forum of an open board meeting, ask all directors if any will volunteer to place hybrid Zoom meetings on the next open meeting agenda for board discussion and possible action. Does a director answer after each Owner's question at one forum? Or does the board wait till all questions are asked and then respond to each?

Our board made a policy about seven years ago that any owners may place items on an open meeting agenda. There are caveats that the PM & Prez will check to see the item is legal & doesn't repeat something already settled. The owner must Las submit it 10 ahead of the next meeting on a form with asks what this might cost? What work would the PM have to do? If the submitter can't answer these, the time still would probably go on the agenda.

Btw, we only 2 minutes per owner in open forum & one topic at a time. The same owner can ask subsequent questions after others have had their turns.

With some others, No I don't think owners should have input for spending reserve funds, who the work should be done, etc. What a nightmare.

Now your $100,000 for "traffic shaping or some such: Wasn't that a capital improvement project & not paid for from reserves? It's possible, based on other factors, that the Board maybe should have gotten owners' votes.

Ellen - this is my current disclaimer, do you have any better ideas?

"This website is not affiliated with and has no connection to 'XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX'.
All content is for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice or an official statement from the owner of this website or its affiliates.

thanks for the input

Our HOA is actually a maintenance association as in 'Sunny Hills MAINTENANCE ASSOCIATION'. The PMV doesn't have a specific website for us, they use a commercial software package and we log in at a 'ComWebPortal' address.

I used 'SunnyHillsHOA.com' and if you were to google 'Sunny Hills HOA', there are dozens of hits from other actual HOA's (especially in Florida) as well as other listings. I will change the email address though.

The HOA's name is not trademarked, and from your link: (note the "Acted in bad faith" clause)

"This act made it easier for individuals and companies to take over domain names that are confusingly similar to their names or valid trademarks. To do so, however, they must establish that the domain name holder acted in bad faith

There is also a "Uniform Domain Name Dispute Resolution Policy"

1 that the trademark owner owns a trademark (either registered or unregistered) that is the same or confusingly similar to the registered
second level domain name;
2 that the party that registered the domain name has no legitimate right or interest in the domain name; and
3 that the domain name was registered and used in bad faith.

No trademark, I have right to use the name that I registered, I am doing my community a service - I have nothing to gain by using that domain name. Our HOA never had a 'standalone' website with a specific domain name, it was always hosted through some service with an obscure url

You mean a kickback?
That is why YOU as a board of director find your own vendors and not one of the PMC's closing. GOD it's weird, since I have been on the board
our cost have gone down a bit gee I wonder why hmmm.

Ellen if you get a chance, read this

https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/S/SLAPP

As in so many HOA issues, ask yourself:

Would a normal business do this?

In this situation, the answer is "of course not". So a HOA shouldn't do it, either.

I would be asking myself whether raising this as an issue is going to hurt or help my credibility on bigger issues.

I would let this one be.

If this company gives your HOA 40 hours per week and the other HOA 40 hours per week, then how is there double billing?

Furthermore, if the board has no complaints about the service the manager provides, then you are especially out of line.

If I were an owner in your HOA, then I would give you credibility for raising this concern with the board and other owners.