Board Meeting or Not?

LmT (California)
Posts: 237

Posted:

At today's meeting our manager suggested all board members would be welcome to join her and our landscape contractor on a walk-through of our property. I suggested that this might violate the Davis Stirling rules on board meetings as it involves HOA business but she assured us that was not so. Something about meeting with the manager and a contractor.

I can't find anything to support this on the DS Website. Any thoughts or information would be appreciated.

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 200

Posted:

I would be extremely surprised if more than 1 board member has interest in doing the walkthrough. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised at all if no one takes her up on it.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

I do this all the time and twice on Sundays. As long as NO action has been taken, maybe just have them prepare a proposal, which then can be presented in an open meeting.

LmT (California)
Posts: 237

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelT21 on 03/10/2023 11:24 AM
I would be extremely surprised if more than 1 board member has interest in doing the walkthrough. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised at all if no one takes her up on it.

She's the one who probably will not show up!

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Are you on the Board, LmT?

If a quorum of the Board does this walkabout with the PM & landscaper, in CA this is defined as a board meeting and should be open to members (Owners). One solution is to make sure fewer than a Board quorum participates (which might be easy as MichaelT suggests and has been my experience).

A 2nd is to invite owners with 4-days general notice posted somewhere, i.e., make it an open board meeting. We did this once walking with our reserves analysts, and no owners joined us.

A 3rd possibility is to treat this as an executive session if matters re: the contract will be discussed with the contractor. Contracts in formation or modification are OK to be discussed in Ex. Session.

In reality, I'm guessing that most CA HOA boards handle this the way that Max does. BUT if discussion & perhaps deliberation take place, the CA Open Meeting Act defines it as a board meeting if a quorum of the board is present.

BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217

Posted:

We have the same open meeting requirements in Texas for HOAs as does California.

As was suggested by Max, we simply make an announcement as to what is going on, state no association business will be transacted, and hold the walk-through. BTW, our City Council does the same. On meeting announcements for the Planning and Zoning Commission for example, the announcement states a quorum of the Council may be present (as observers) and that no City business will be transacted.

As Kerry suggested in #3, occasionally we announce the meeting, state the Board will immediately adjourn to ES, and hold the meeting. When the meeting is over, we make the usual announcement in generalities about what took place and state the Board took appropriate action.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

I don't live in California, but how is this a violation???

Our community usually has a walk-through every spring and one or two board members would tag along to see what might be needed regarding g repairs and improvements. It was a fact finding task not a meeting because nothing was decided until after the rest of the board had a chance to review the list, note what issues were coming up a lot, such as several townhouses having loose gutters.

Go ahead and do the walk through if you have time. You may even learn something about tbe community that you didn't notice before (if homeowners have expressed concern about something that's not close to your home, you'll finally see what they're talking about, )

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

In CA, Shelia, if a quorum of the board meets together about Assn. business, it is defined as a board meeting per state statues. If discussions on this stroll are about non-executive session assn. matters, it must be an open board meeting, and owners must be given 4 days notice & agenda posted in a public place.

Perhaps, unlike Texas, no discussions or deliberations about assn. biz. may take place in the scenario presented by the O.P. In Texas it sounds like all kinds of discussion may take place among directors so long as there is no "action"

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

We have posted speed limits and the vehicle code does say you're supposed to drive within the posted speed limit. I know I don't, BUT I drive safely.

LmT (California)
Posts: 237

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 03/10/2023 4:38 PM
I don't live in California, but how is this a violation???

Our community usually has a walk-through every spring and one or two board members would tag along to see what might be needed regarding g repairs and improvements. It was a fact finding task not a meeting because nothing was decided until after the rest of the board had a chance to review the list, note what issues were coming up a lot, such as several townhouses having loose gutters.

Go ahead and do the walk through if you have time. You may even learn something about tbe community that you didn't notice before (if homeowners have expressed concern about something that's not close to your home, you'll finally see what they're talking about, )

We are a very small community and I am extremely familiar with my neighbors and their concerns. I am the chairman of our Landscape Committee so I hear them all.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Ah, a Landscape Committee too, of which you're chair. So the committee would join you, the PM & the contractor?

Can you remind us the size of your HOA? Your Board? You might just want to invite any owners to walk with you?

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

LmT, I think your manager is arguing this is a meeting where "personnel" issues are discussed and so need not be conducted in open session. See for example https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/S/Sample-Executive-Agenda

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

Why would anyone think this was a personnel issue.

LmT (California)
Posts: 237

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 03/10/2023 7:18 PM
Ah, a Landscape Committee too, of which you're chair. So the committee would join you, the PM & the contractor?

Can you remind us the size of your HOA? Your Board? You might just want to invite any owners to walk with you?

I am also on the board. I’m trying to avoid this turning into an all day circus event for our landscape contractor the more people are involved and each one pointing out to him what are their personal concerns. Try to imagine that. We are only 40 units but we have 16 acres of landscaping. Given that we are not his only client and not the largest by far. He wouldn’t want to spend that amount of time either.

It’s just a walk through to get his perspective and to present to him our concerns. Rather than making this event more difficult and time consuming than it needs to be, I would prefer that members of the landscape committee, the PM and perhaps one other board member be present. I thought by advising this could be seen as a breach of the rules I could avoid this scenario. To suggest that HOA business not be discussed is unrealistic.

Add to this the fact that we have a home owner who is waiting in the wings for us to give him the opportunity to pounce.

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LmT on 03/11/2023 7:35 AM

Posted By KerryL1 on 03/10/2023 7:18 PM
Ah, a Landscape Committee too, of which you're chair. So the committee would join you, the PM & the contractor?

Can you remind us the size of your HOA? Your Board? You might just want to invite any owners to walk with you?

I am also on the board. I’m trying to avoid this turning into an all day circus event for our landscape contractor the more people are involved and each one pointing out to him what are their personal concerns. Try to imagine that. We are only 40 units but we have 16 acres of landscaping. Given that we are not his only client and not the largest by far. He wouldn’t want to spend that amount of time either.

It’s just a walk through to get his perspective and to present to him our concerns. Rather than making this event more difficult and time consuming than it needs to be, I would prefer that members of the landscape committee, the PM and perhaps one other board member be present. I thought by advising this could be seen as a breach of the rules I could avoid this scenario. To suggest that HOA business not be discussed is unrealistic.

Add to this the fact that we have a home owner who is waiting in the wings for us to give him the opportunity to pounce.

I agree 100% Having homeowners while discussing landscape needs is a nightmare. Everybody thinks they are landscaping experts and you'll be there all day. Don't do it.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnT38 on 03/11/2023 7:48 AM

Posted By LmT on 03/11/2023 7:35 AM

Posted By KerryL1 on 03/10/2023 7:18 PM
Ah, a Landscape Committee too, of which you're chair. So the committee would join you, the PM & the contractor?

Can you remind us the size of your HOA? Your Board? You might just want to invite any owners to walk with you?

I am also on the board. I’m trying to avoid this turning into an all day circus event for our landscape contractor the more people are involved and each one pointing out to him what are their personal concerns. Try to imagine that. We are only 40 units but we have 16 acres of landscaping. Given that we are not his only client and not the largest by far. He wouldn’t want to spend that amount of time either.

It’s just a walk through to get his perspective and to present to him our concerns. Rather than making this event more difficult and time consuming than it needs to be, I would prefer that members of the landscape committee, the PM and perhaps one other board member be present. I thought by advising this could be seen as a breach of the rules I could avoid this scenario. To suggest that HOA business not be discussed is unrealistic.

Add to this the fact that we have a home owner who is waiting in the wings for us to give him the opportunity to pounce.

I agree 100% Having homeowners while discussing landscape needs is a nightmare. Everybody thinks they are landscaping experts and you'll be there all day. Don't do it.

I also agree.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Oh, yes, I understand. When you wrote small HOA, I envisioned maybe 15 homes or even fewer. So, back to my earlier thought: Have fewer than a quorum of the board present for this activity to comply with the Open Meeting Act in CA.

How many on your board?

Max, however, advises, thumbing your nose at CA statute because he drives faster than the speed limit.

LmT (California)
Posts: 237

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 03/11/2023 9:13 AM
Oh, yes, I understand. When you wrote small HOA, I envisioned maybe 15 homes or even fewer. So, back to my earlier thought: Have fewer than a quorum of the board present for this activity to comply with the Open Meeting Act in CA.

How many on your board?

Max, however, advises, thumbing your nose at CA statute because he drives faster than the speed limit.

Five.
I also drive faster than the speed limit but I understand if I get caught there will be a penalty 😬