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RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
18 months ago, a house burned down. Six months later, the current owner cleared the bulk of debris, but left other junk, including a recently installed swimming pool that lacks proper fencing as required by the POA. 18 months later the lot is still in that condition. The lot has been listed for sale for over six months. I assume it will go into foreclosure at any time.

If sold in foreclosure, and with it being a junk lot that would likely cost a material amount of money to prepare for building a home, it could sit in that condition longer under new ownership.

What I am wondering: If the POA has not required the current owner to clean and remove the remaining debris, and has not required him to fence the pool as required in the restrictions, could it enforce those restrictions on new owners. That seems unequitable to ignore the lot's condition for the current owner but then try to enforce those restrictions on future owners that bought the lot in that 18+ months condition. Anyone know? In case it makes a difference, this is in Texas.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
If in the required HOA seller's disclosure the HOA says no covenant violations exist, then enforcing the covenants against the new owner will be problematic. See TPC 207.003 (b) (11).
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
roger

My initial blush is file lien and send violation notices. Get things on the record.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
The board should also check with the HOA's insurer and attorney to discuss potential liability posed by an unfenced pool and take the proper steps to deal with it - ie. beef up insurance if necessary, send violation notices/enforce the fencing requirement, and put up a fence if the lot owner doesn't comply.

People and pets can drown in just a few inches of water, and a lot like this would have been a favorite play spot when I was a kid. It gives me the heebie-jeebies now.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
I have seen fire damage repairs and rebuilds take 1-3 years, it drags out. In the meantime whoever is the listed titled owner, start the fining process.
if the property changes hands 50 times before it is rebuilt or just a vacant lot, fines must be satisfied and on the record.
Also it won't hurt to drop a dime about the pool to your local code enforcement, let them do all the dirty work, but be a persistent pest so they take action.
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LetA on 03/05/2023 9:05 PM
I have seen fire damage repairs and rebuilds take 1-3 years, it drags out. In the meantime whoever is the listed titled owner, start the fining process.
if the property changes hands 50 times before it is rebuilt or just a vacant lot, fines must be satisfied and on the record.
Also it won't hurt to drop a dime about the pool to your local code enforcement, let them do all the dirty work, but be a persistent pest so they take action.

The last part is the problem - we are in an unincorporated area of the County. I have spoken with the County, and there is no County requirement on pool fencing. Also, while many pool companies reference a state law on a fence requirement, upon my reading of the state law, I find it only applies to public pools, not private, residential pools. So either that is misunderstanding by pool companies or just a way to sell fencing.

So there is no entity, or than the Association, that can require the fencing. I alerted this Board to this, and they are claiming they made a demand for the fencing but that has been a while and there is no fence. Based on prior actions, the Board would never do the work, and charge/file a lien on the owner, so I guess that is a lawsuit and tragedy that could happen.
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 03/05/2023 10:41 AM
The board should also check with the HOA's insurer and attorney to discuss potential liability posed by an unfenced pool and take the proper steps to deal with it - ie. beef up insurance if necessary, send violation notices/enforce the fencing requirement, and put up a fence if the lot owner doesn't comply.

People and pets can drown in just a few inches of water, and a lot like this would have been a favorite play spot when I was a kid. It gives me the heebie-jeebies now.

I agree. It is almost 4 acres, fairly wooded, with a creek near the pool. There is also a pool-size pond on the lot (that has had stray, young alligators about every other Spring after large rains.) As you wrote, it seems an ideal place for kids to play, and there are some young kids one lot over from it. I am also worried about wild animals dying in the pool - hurt and starving in a pool is a sad end.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RogerJ1 on 03/06/2023 6:44 AM
upon my reading of the state law, I find it only applies to public pools, not private, residential pools.
I disagree. In Texas, the private swimming pool here appears to be a "Class C" pool. Class C pools do have detailed enclosure requirements. See TAC Rule 265.182, https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=R&app=9&p_dir=&p_rloc=&p_tloc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=25&pt=1&ch=265&rl=182

Then see TAC Rule 265.192 (d), https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=R&app=9&p_dir=&p_rloc=&p_tloc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=25&pt=1&ch=265&rl=192
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 03/06/2023 7:38 AM
Posted By RogerJ1 on 03/06/2023 6:44 AM
upon my reading of the state law, I find it only applies to public pools, not private, residential pools.
I disagree. In Texas, the private swimming pool here appears to be a "Class C" pool. Class C pools do have detailed enclosure requirements. See TAC Rule 265.182, https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=R&app=9&p_dir=&p_rloc=&p_tloc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=25&pt=1&ch=265&rl=182

Then see TAC Rule 265.192 (d), https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=R&app=9&p_dir=&p_rloc=&p_tloc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=25&pt=1&ch=265&rl=192

I found this for Class C, and it is none of those things - it is a pool on private lot. https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=T&app=9&p_dir=F&p_rloc=114077&p_tloc=14926&p_ploc=1&pg=4&p_tac=&ti=25&pt=1&ch=265&rl=184#:~:text=(C)%20Class%20C%20pool%2D%2D,private%20organizations%2C%20or%20clubs%3B%20or

(C) Class C pool--Any pool operated for and in conjunction with:
(i) lodging such as hotels, motels, apartments, condominiums, or mobile home parks;
(ii) property owner associations, private organizations, or clubs; or
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Added note, I just checked County tax records, and the lot is currently delinquent in property taxes with a warning about potential lien being filed and foreclosure on the tax history disclosure. Not being familiar with that County database, I checked another property and it has no such delinquent language.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Is it in your rules that one is allowed pools? If so, does it state the kind, fencing, or other pool conditions? Plus it's going to be hard to enforce a pool fence requirement if one doesn't exist in your area. The property is owned by someone and not the HOA. If something happens, then the lot owner is responsible. Doesn't mean someone won't try to sue the HOA or make a claim. It means may not stick to the HOA. I would check with your HOA insurance. Maybe in "Theory" type questions not that one exists...

Former HOA President
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Roger, I think I see what you mean. Yet there also seems like wiggle room in interpreting this. This attorneys' web site seems to imply the pool in question does have to have an enclosure: https://www.arnolditkin.com/drowning-lawyers/texas-pool-safety-laws/

I would keep digging and/or consult an attorney specialized in this matter.
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/06/2023 8:02 AM
Is it in your rules that one is allowed pools? If so, does it state the kind, fencing, or other pool conditions? Plus it's going to be hard to enforce a pool fence requirement if one doesn't exist in your area. The property is owned by someone and not the HOA. If something happens, then the lot owner is responsible. Doesn't mean someone won't try to sue the HOA or make a claim. It means may not stick to the HOA. I would check with your HOA insurance. Maybe in "Theory" type questions not that one exists...

It is a POA deed restriction that a pool must have fencing. The required fencing is explained in detail (size, latching, material parameters etc.) in the POA restrictions. The Board has supposedly filed a violations, where it has or has not is assured as this Board does lie, but it has stated to me it is pursing it. All along, my argument is the Board should install the fencing and charge the owner. Now, it looks like the property could go into foreclosure at any time, and is listed on the market anyway. My concern is that if the Board really is not pursing it on the current owner as the Board claims, that violation cannot be enforced on the any ew owner, hence my original post here asking.
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 03/06/2023 8:06 AM
Roger, I think I see what you mean. Yet there also seems like wiggle room in interpreting this. This attorneys' web site seems to imply the pool in question does have to have an enclosure: https://www.arnolditkin.com/drowning-lawyers/texas-pool-safety-laws/

I would keep digging and/or consult an attorney specialized in this matter.

I talked with someone in the State Department of Health Services, which is the department under which that state wide code falls. The representative sent me a link to the overall code, which states, and he explained, is a statewide code that municipalities may adopt, but is not a statewide regulation. I am not sure if a county is legally consider a municipality, so I am not sure if a county could even adopt it, but per talking with my county, my county has no such regulation.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Is the pool drained or filled? If it is filled, not only would it pose a drowning hazard, it will be a breeding ground for mosquitos.

In the meantime, make sure you have your liens against the property filed and up to date. Let the bank or the tax department do
the dirty work for you.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Rofer

Pay less attention to the pool and more attention to protecting the associations interests with liens, violation notices, etc.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
And if the property does go into foreclosure, those liens and violation notices will really come in handy, NOT.
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaxB4 on 03/07/2023 9:49 AM
And if the property does go into foreclosure, those liens and violation notices will really come in handy, NOT.

Not true in all states. We have a foreclosure in our community. We filed a reply in court to the foreclosure case to protect our rights. She owes us over $7000.

In Florida, our lien takes precedence over the foreclosure so we will get our money if the house is auctioned or sold. The estoppel will cover us if it's sold before foreclosure.

Max, you have been awfully grumpy lately.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LoriM15 on 03/07/2023 10:25 AM
Posted By MaxB4 on 03/07/2023 9:49 AM
And if the property does go into foreclosure, those liens and violation notices will really come in handy, NOT.


Not true in all states. We have a foreclosure in our community. We filed a reply in court to the foreclosure case to protect our rights. She owes us over $7000.

In Florida, our lien takes precedence over the foreclosure so we will get our money if the house is auctioned or sold. The estoppel will cover us if it's sold before foreclosure.

Max, you have been awfully grumpy lately.

In California, the HOA will lose. This is NOT a Florida property.

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