💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

PaulL12 (California)
Posts: 116
Posted:
1) In the state of California, can unpaid late fees for HOA dues be used as a lien against one's property?

2) If a monthly dues late fee has been assessed and the homeowner then pays two months of dues, is the default to (A) apply the funds to the two months of dues first and leave the late fees on the books or (B) apply the funds to the late fees first and the rest to the monthly dues - leaving the dues less than fully paid for the second month.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Late fees are considered "punitive" charges. They exist to punish someone for not paying on time. Them being punitive of nature like "fines" means most likely not subject to foreclosure or lien. Matter of fact some negotiations include removing late fees and interest if the person agrees to paying the back dues in whole. They can be included on the lien but not the sole source of the lien or foreclosure.

Now there are some HOA's who do what I do not agree with accounting. They will apply dues paid to the fines or late fees owed. This makes it looks like one is not paying their dues. Which then can lead to lien. This isn't something I personally agree with but doesn't mean another HOA doesn't.

Late fees and fines work like "speeding tickets" for the HOA. They are NOT a source of income for the HOA. They are a way to enforce rules in a punitive way. People are responsible for paying their dues. Sometimes you have to force them into it by late fees, liens, or threats of foreclosure. (Foreclosure ONLY stops the bleeding NOT a profit).

Former HOA President
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Did you ask your property manager or check your collection policy? I seem to recall you're on the board, so you should already know this.

In checking Google, one website read" Pursuant to California law, if an assessment (regular monthly dues and special assessments) are not paid within 15 days of the due date, a delinquency occurs. Once delinquent, the homeowners' association (HOA) may impose a "late fee" of $10.00 or 10%, whichever is greater, unless the CC&Rs specify a lesser amount. If an assessment becomes delinquent for over 30 days, in addition to the late fee the HOA may assess interest up to 12% per year on the unpaid balance owed by the delinquent homeowner. If the homeowner still fails to pay the delinquent assessments, the HOA can seek a personal judgment and/or lien the delnquent homeowner's property for the amounts owed plus attorneys fees and costs. And most important, if the assessed debt reaches $1,800 or more or becomes more than one year old (even if only $100), the homeowners association (HOA) can initiate foreclosure proceedings."

You don't say how much your assessments are, but in looking at this, I would think the costs to place a lien would far exceed the late fee, so I don't see the HOA doing this. When liens are applied a substantial amount of money should be involved. They shouldn't be used to be vindictive (although some board members might try that - and they usually find out the hard way that's not the way it works).

On the other hand, you didn't say if your association accelerates unpaid assessments for the rest of the year if the account goes delinquent. In my community, we turn the account over to the attorney if two months go by without payment, and at that point the assessments are accelerated. So a lien shouldn't be obtained for two late fees totaling $50.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
The answers may well be in your CC&Rs. Ours describe when late fees may be assessed and the order in which payments will be applied against outstanding charges.

Davis-Stirling says this about late charges:

https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/L/Late-Charges-Interest

And here is the entire Collection menu:

https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/H/HOA-Collection-Menu
PaulL12 (California)
Posts: 116
Posted:
We want to be sure the management company is doing the right thing. It is my understanding that the default is to apply the past due to unpaid or underpaid dues first and late fees second. However, one of our homeowners is stating this is not how the management company is doing it - in other words, they apply to the late fees first and unpaid dues second. The homeowner also expressed concern that the late fees - by themselves - could become a lien against the property. What should we tell her (it is kind of a put off to refer her to an attorney)? The answer is not 100% clear at Davis-Stirling.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Would the association attorney give you an answer without charging the HOA an arm and a leg for it? We do have some experienced CA posters on this website - hopefully they'll chime in later today.
MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 200
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 03/03/2023 9:08 AM
Would the association attorney give you an answer without charging the HOA an arm and a leg for it? We do have some experienced CA posters on this website - hopefully they'll chime in later today.

Our association attorney charges $40/e-mail sent if the e-mail is 3 lines or less. Longer than 3 lines cost more.

So a simple "what is the status of the delinquent account" with a response of "heard nothing from the homeowner" costs $40.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
California Civil Code discusses the priority of payments,

https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Statutes/Civil-Code-5655#axzz2CgHrcBrn
BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217
Posted:
Paul, I read Max's citation and strongly recommend your Board ensure the management company is following the statute regarding the sequence for application of payments to past due amounts owed the Association.

It is not up to the management company to decide how the payment is applied; the California Civil Code citation is as clear as it can be.

Not that it applies to you, we must follow almost the same language in Texas.
PaulL12 (California)
Posts: 116
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaxB4 on 03/03/2023 10:19 AM
California Civil Code discusses the priority of payments,

https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Statutes/Civil-Code-5655#axzz2CgHrcBrn

Thanks for finding that.

(a) Any payments made by the owner of a separate interest toward a debt described in subdivision (a) of Section 5650 shall first be applied to the assessments owed, and, only after the assessments owed are paid in full shall the payments be applied to the fees and costs of collection, attorney’s fees, late charges, or interest.

Let's say a homeowner is late in her payment in month 1. A late fee is assessed. The month 1 payment is then received in full and per 5650 is applied to the month 1 assessment. Then the homeowner pays two months assessments (months 2 & 3) - one of which is at least a month early. Could the HOA apply any of the payment for month 3 to the late fee? It would seem so, as the month 3 payment was made when the only outstanding amount due was for the late fee.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PaulL12 on 03/03/2023 11:46 AM
Posted By MaxB4 on 03/03/2023 10:19 AM
California Civil Code discusses the priority of payments,

https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Statutes/Civil-Code-5655#axzz2CgHrcBrn


Thanks for finding that.

(a) Any payments made by the owner of a separate interest toward a debt described in subdivision (a) of Section 5650 shall first be applied to the assessments owed, and, only after the assessments owed are paid in full shall the payments be applied to the fees and costs of collection, attorney’s fees, late charges, or interest.

Let's say a homeowner is late in her payment in month 1. A late fee is assessed. The month 1 payment is then received in full and per 5650 is applied to the month 1 assessment. Then the homeowner pays two months assessments (months 2 & 3) - one of which is at least a month early. Could the HOA apply any of the payment for month 3 to the late fee? It would seem so, as the month 3 payment was made when the only outstanding amount due was for the late fee.

If an extra payment is sent, then, yes, the extra payments can be applied to any additional outstanding debt. If there is a credit, that will be applied to dues for the following month.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PaulL12 on 03/03/2023 8:55 AM
We want to be sure the management company is doing the right thing. It is my understanding that the default is to apply the past due to unpaid or underpaid dues first and late fees second. However, one of our homeowners is stating this is not how the management company is doing it - in other words, they apply to the late fees first and unpaid dues second. The homeowner also expressed concern that the late fees - by themselves - could become a lien against the property. What should we tell her (it is kind of a put off to refer her to an attorney)? The answer is not 100% clear at Davis-Stirling.

This homeowner also knew a late fee had been assessed and therefore should have paid that too - it doesn't go away when you finally decide to pay. That's probably the real answer here - either tell the homeowner he or she won't be totally current until that's paid or the board should make a decision on waiving it (I go for option 1)

This may be a good time to remind everyone of the priority of late payments and the board expects tge ENTIRE amount to be paid in order to become current. Only the board has the authority to waive the late fee and its decision is final. As a general rule, late fees will not be waived. Want to avoid them- pay in full and on time, all of the damned time!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
As a management company, I also have the authority to waive the late fee.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
We would waive the late fee and the interest if someone would cough up the back dues. Plus if they had a lien, they still had to pay those legal costs for filing and lawyer. Since they were just punitive charges for the late fees and interest saw them as negotiable charges if you paid what you owed.

Former HOA President
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaxB4 on 03/04/2023 6:45 AM
As a management company, I also have the authority to waive the late fee.

Ours used to do this but didn't have official authority. For a while, we let it slide because the owners usually had an otherwise clean record and it never happened again, but when the delinquencies started getting out of hand in a big way, we said nope, this will have to be a board decision.

Now, if the manager feels strongly about a waiver, she'll bring that to the board for consideration. Before I stepped down, we had one who was thisclose to be referred to the attorney. We decided to do the waiver, but had the manager send a letter stating there would be no waivers in the future. I don't know if the board does today, but our accounts receivables have come down quite nicely, so I doubt it.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here