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VC (Florida(FS 720))
Posts: 118
Posted:
Hi,

What is the community opinion about creating a so-called "fine" committee enforcing CC&R ? We currently do not have any serious issues in the community, but a board member is pushing for creating one. I am not entirely sure of its usefulness. Does not the board itself have enough power to enforce CC&Rs? What is the point of creating a rule enforcement team ?

I am a bit apprehensive that instead of making lives more comfortable it can create unnecessary tensions and be counterproductive, therefore. Asking for more experienced people's opinions.

Thanks !
MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 859
Posted:
The Board has the responsibility to handle violations. All of the board members are elected and the people on this compliance committee would be non-elected and yet have great powers. When you run for the Board, you are saying that you will fulfill the responsibilities that the board has.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
You do need what is called a "Fining schedule". This is a list of what is violations and what the fine will be for it. It is the board's responsibility to enforce the rules. Who did you think it was?

Former HOA President
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I agree with Michael's comments. Unelected homeowners have no authority unless your bylaws specifically mention this type of committee and give that committee the authority.

In addition, in many communities violation actions are considered confidential and are discussed in executive session, so it would be inappropriate to have homeowners present at them.

Finally, this sort of committee tends to attract the "condo commandos" who like to tell people what to do. Nobody enjoys living in a police state, and these folks often go overboard and cause conflict where there shouldn't be any. (This happened years ago in my community. They ignored board instructions, got way out of their lane, created a notice and signed the property manager's name to it, and other similar actions. It wasn't pretty.)

*Any* homeowner can report violations to the board. It doesn't require a formal committee to do this.
VC (Florida(FS 720))
Posts: 118
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MichaelS56 on 02/17/2023 4:17 AM
The Board has the responsibility to handle violations. All of the board members are elected and the people on this compliance committee would be non-elected and yet have great powers. When you run for the Board, you are saying that you will fulfill the responsibilities that the board has.

That's my feeling precisely ! It's just one member pushing for that.
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
You must have a fining committee in Florida in order to levy fines.

Take a look at Florida Statute 720.305. It lays out the process for HOAs in Florida and how much they can be. Your documents might also have another amount (for example, our documents allow an aggregate of $5000, not just $1000 the statute says).

The general process is that you give a warning (official or non-official), then you give a violation, then you have them appear at a board meeting for fining, then the fine the board recommends goes to a fining committee for final approval.

If you don't follow this procedure, the homeowner can sue saying it's not valid.

Check your documents to see what they say about all of this, check the statute, then make a decision based on both.
VC (Florida(FS 720))
Posts: 118
Posted:
Thank you, Lori !

That was very useful. I was not aware of the fact that the committee is required to fine a violator.
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By VC on 02/17/2023 9:55 AM
Thank you, Lori !

That was very useful. I was not aware of the fact that the committee is required to fine a violator.

The fining committee is required to decide only yes or no on the fine. They can't adjust it either - it has to be yes or no.

That's not to say the board can't start over and bring a violation again.

A fining schedule is useful, but it should be updated periodically. Fining someone $50 in a lot of communities just isn't enough to make a difference to the homeowner.

Finally, you have to think about the next steps if someone does get fined. It's one thing to fine them $50 if they left out a garbage can on the wrong day and it's a one-time occurance. But what about the person who painted their house the wrong color? What if they get fined the maximum $1000 and they just pay it? Are you going to let them keep their house the wrong color just because they paid the fine? Or will you be ready to get a cease and desist from your attorney? Make sure you have a written procedure for what happens when your architectural control committee (if you have one) makes a decision and the homeowner doesn't agree or does something anyway. There has to be a clear path for all complaints to get to the board to make fining decisions.

Working on compliance is a very difficult thing. You really need to have a full plan in place before you start trying to enforce. I recently talked to the presidents of three HOAs here when I was getting references for our new management company. Every one of them said the toughest part of the HOA was compliance.
VC (Florida(FS 720))
Posts: 118
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LoriM15 on 02/17/2023 11:22 AM
Posted By VC on 02/17/2023 9:55 AM
Thank you, Lori !

That was very useful. I was not aware of the fact that the committee is required to fine a violator.


Working on compliance is a very difficult thing. You really need to have a full plan in place before you start trying to enforce. I recently talked to the presidents of three HOAs here when I was getting references for our new management company. Every one of them said the toughest part of the HOA was compliance.

Thanks,

I appreciate your real life experience sharing. The logistics involved push me more towards preserving the status quo which we have had for 15 years, namely, no committee.

Regarding the management company, what part of Florida were you looking for in ? We are in PBC.
VC (Florida(FS 720))
Posts: 118
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LoriM15 on 02/17/2023 11:22 AM
Posted By VC on 02/17/2023 9:55 AM
Thank you, Lori !

That was very useful. I was not aware of the fact that the committee is required to fine a violator.


The fining committee is required to decide only yes or no on the fine. They can't adjust it either - it has to be yes or no.


Lori,

Can the fining committee bring an action on it own, or the violation procedure can only be initiated by the board ? Is their role confined to that of a "jury" ?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 02/17/2023 5:01 AM
I agree with Michael's comments. Unelected homeowners have no authority unless your bylaws specifically mention this type of committee and give that committee the authority.

In addition, in many communities violation actions are considered confidential and are discussed in executive session, so it would be inappropriate to have homeowners present at them.

Finally, this sort of committee tends to attract the "condo commandos" who like to tell people what to do. Nobody enjoys living in a police state, and these folks often go overboard and cause conflict where there shouldn't be any. (This happened years ago in my community. They ignored board instructions, got way out of their lane, created a notice and signed the property manager's name to it, and other similar actions. It wasn't pretty.)

*Any* homeowner can report violations to the board. It doesn't require a formal committee to do this.

Sound advice.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
If unelected committee members should have no authority, should that also apply to unelected, just appointed, board members.
MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 859
Posted:
Max, good question. Their authority comes from the governing documents, while committees do not have that authority in the documents that we have.
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By VC on 02/17/2023 1:44 PM
Posted By LoriM15 on 02/17/2023 11:22 AM
Posted By VC on 02/17/2023 9:55 AM
Thank you, Lori !

That was very useful. I was not aware of the fact that the committee is required to fine a violator.


The fining committee is required to decide only yes or no on the fine. They can't adjust it either - it has to be yes or no.



Lori,

Can the fining committee bring an action on it own, or the violation procedure can only be initiated by the board ? Is their role confined to that of a "jury" ?

No. They can only approve or deny the fine that is proposed by the board. And there has to be due process for the homeowner.

Now our ACC does refer homeowners to the board for breaking our architectural rules. But they can't fine. Only the board has that power.
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By VC on 02/17/2023 1:41 PM
Posted By LoriM15 on 02/17/2023 11:22 AM
Posted By VC on 02/17/2023 9:55 AM
Thank you, Lori !

That was very useful. I was not aware of the fact that the committee is required to fine a violator.


Regarding the management company, what part of Florida were you looking for in ? We are in PBC.

We are in Lee County (west coast). We just signed with the new company and hope this one is better than the last.
VC (Florida(FS 720))
Posts: 118
Posted:
Lori,

Thanks for both answers !

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