Tie votes on the board

DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994

Posted:

Our board consists of five members. If a member resigns, the bylaws specify that a replacement will be elected by a majority vote of the remaining board members, with no further detail about the process. However, should one board member resign that would leave four members, and a very real chance of a tie between them. Is there any customary way of breaking a tie among an even-numbered board, or do they simply have to stay at it until they figure out a way to reach an agreement?

WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522

Posted:

Max Please report any violations here http://internetpolice.us/

And if you have time would you please also patrol these two small websites called facebook and twitter. I've noticed a lot of violations there too.

vis ta vie

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Wendy the posting rules here on this website. It is preferred you don't post your HOA's name, Company names, or people's names. There is no need to be able to identify your HOA. Use of company or people's names also are not fair to that person to put their information out in the World Wide Web without their permission or knowledge. Avoiding using your own name is discouraged as well. It is best to keep thing anomalous.

True story. I was on another HOA website years ago. A poster there who was quite unhinged decided to try to post my name and personal address online. They had made several threats against other posters and people in their own HOA. Due to the nature and danger this person posed I had to take things into the "Real world". They had posted the name of their HOA and other contact information. I was able to reach out to the HOA to let them know this person was a possible threat. The website ended up being shut down due to this poster. I think there may have been some legal issues behind the scenes due to the open threats posted. It made everyone potential witnesses.

This isn't something I wanted to do but there are times where a poster can cross a line. When that happens you never know if they will find your home or your HOA. I don't use my real name, location, or real name of my HOA here. Doesn't mean the information isn't true just the names and locations have been changed...

Former HOA President

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

The company name is one thing. But the long post looks like an extensive quote from a different source: ie. plagiarism. That's frowned on everywhere. If you want to send people to that longer work, you should post a short quote and a link.

You may think posting rules are stupid, but they exist to protect the website owner from liability resulting from user posts. The owner can delete posts and boot people who violate the terms, and in fact need to do so in order to limit their liability. Communities with websites that allow homeowners to post need to take the same steps (or not allow homeowners to post at all, which is what our attorneys strongly recommended).

WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 02/10/2023 1:27 PM
The company name is one thing. But the long post looks like an extensive quote from a different source: ie. plagiarism. That's frowned on everywhere. If you want to send people to that longer work, you should post a short quote and a link.

You may think posting rules are stupid, but they exist to protect the website owner from liability resulting from user posts. The owner can delete posts and boot people who violate the terms, and in fact need to do so in order to limit their liability. Communities with websites that allow homeowners to post need to take the same steps (or not allow homeowners to post at all, which is what our attorneys strongly recommended).

anyone that thinks that is plagerism is a moron.
if the moderator can delete posts then let them handle it. or better yet start your own forum and enforce your own rules.
the be nice rule here is broken all the time, no one seems to care about that. selective enforcement.

really is sad to see a helpful posts followed up by bytching.

vis ta vie

WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 02/10/2023 1:20 PM
Wendy the posting rules here on this website. It is preferred you don't post your HOA's name, Company names, or people's names. There is no need to be able to identify your HOA. Use of company or people's names also are not fair to that person to put their information out in the World Wide Web without their permission or knowledge. Avoiding using your own name is discouraged as well. It is best to keep thing anomalous.

True story. I was on another HOA website years ago. A poster there who was quite unhinged decided to try to post my name and personal address online. They had made several threats against other posters and people in their own HOA. Due to the nature and danger this person posed I had to take things into the "Real world". They had posted the name of their HOA and other contact information. I was able to reach out to the HOA to let them know this person was a possible threat. The website ended up being shut down due to this poster. I think there may have been some legal issues behind the scenes due to the open threats posted. It made everyone potential witnesses.

This isn't something I wanted to do but there are times where a poster can cross a line. When that happens you never know if they will find your home or your HOA. I don't use my real name, location, or real name of my HOA here. Doesn't mean the information isn't true just the names and locations have been changed...

you break the be nice rule almost every day. get over it rule breaker. you think I actually read that entire article before i posted it? give me a break. it had good advice, better than your constant complaining. you know what grownups do when they don't like a post they scroll on bye.

vis ta vie

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I did scroll on by, but didn't notice any citation. We've asked Wendy before to cite his sources and he simply won't.

Anyway, from real experience, my HOA has a board of 7. 1 director represents our commercial owners and rarely attends. So 90% of the board meetings are 6 directors. There only have been maybe 4 times in monthly meetings over 14 years that there's been a strong tie vote. In one case, the meeting minutes show 5 versions of a motion before it could get a majority to pass. So it took negotiation and compromise.

In other words, David, a tie vote may be rare. In real life if a motion is made and there's a tile vote, the motion fails.

Our bylaws don't instruct how to fill vacancies either, but boards at my HOA have written a little "Call to Fill a vacancy" kind of notice instructing applicants to fill out a form and turn it in to management 10 days before the next open meeting at which time the board discusses the strengths of the candidate(s) and chooses one--or not.

If your vacancy is within, say 3-4 months of your annual election you might just want to wait until the election.

JeanneH3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 158

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 02/10/2023 1:27 PM
The company name is one thing. But the long post looks like an extensive quote from a different source: ie. plagiarism. That's frowned on everywhere. If you want to send people to that longer work, you should post a short quote and a link.

You may think posting rules are stupid, but they exist to protect the website owner from liability resulting from user posts. The owner can delete posts and boot people who violate the terms, and in fact need to do so in order to limit their liability. Communities with websites that allow homeowners to post need to take the same steps (or not allow homeowners to post at all, which is what our attorneys strongly recommended).

It's from https://www.hoaleader.com/public/Four-Ways-to-Break-an-HOA-Board-Tie.cfm

I'm not seeing any mention of Wendy's HOA name however.

WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522

Posted:

You can also just flip a coin

I post an article to help and get accused of stealing. This forum is ridiculous and petty
The real meaning of plagerusm below
pla·gia·rism
noun
the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.
"there were accusations of plagiarism"

vis ta vie

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Here is another definition: copyright infringement..

People think that if they find an article on the internet, they're free to post the text wherever they want. They are wrong. Posting a brief excerpt plus a link is generally considered fair use. Anything more than that is probably a copyright violation - as when people post the text of an entire article without even mentioning the author's name.

Copyright violations are against posting rules almost everywhere, because website owners don't want to be sued by litigious authors or others who are the copyright holders of the protected work.

WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 02/11/2023 6:15 AM
Here is another definition: copyright infringement..

People think that if they find an article on the internet, they're free to post the text wherever they want. They are wrong. Posting a brief excerpt plus a link is generally considered fair use. Anything more than that is probably a copyright violation - as when people post the text of an entire article without even mentioning the author's name.

Copyright violations are against posting rules almost everywhere, because website owners don't want to be sued by litigious authors or others who are the copyright holders of the protected work.

Show me one law case involving a forum owner being sued for a copied article online that's free
You are literally making it all up to prove a ridiculous point. You in the past have even called out quoting other posts as copyright infringement. It's beyond riculois that you go into off topicville rants. How about actually trying to help the poster?

vis ta vie

JeanneH3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 158

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 02/11/2023 6:15 AM
Here is another definition: copyright infringement..

People think that if they find an article on the internet, they're free to post the text wherever they want. They are wrong. Posting a brief excerpt plus a link is generally considered fair use. Anything more than that is probably a copyright violation - as when people post the text of an entire article without even mentioning the author's name.

Copyright violations are against posting rules almost everywhere, because website owners don't want to be sued by litigious authors or others who are the copyright holders of the protected work.

Copyright infringement is resolved 99% of the time with a polite request to delete the infringing material. I was once the owner of a very large forum such as this one. 1) It is impossible to read 1,500+ new posts a day.
2) My forum software had a reporting feature so that members could alert moderators of a problem post. This forum does not appear to have that feature. HOwever, I typically ignored reports by 3rd parties who did not actually own the material. See item 3 why..... 3) The owners of copyrighted material will send a Digital Millennium Copyright Act Notification. This process is described in DMCA Title II, also known as the Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitation Act. The copyright holder submits a formal DMCA Notification of infringement directing the site owner/administrator to the alleged infringing material. If the Notification meets all the requirements mandated by law, I would promptly remove that material but I would also notify the poster of the alleged infringed material of the DMCA Notification so they could choose to file a counterclaim. When someone files a DMCA Notification, the owner is required to sign it under penalty of perjury that they are the owner of the material.

In a forum consisting of tens of thousands of members, there are always those few who have aggressive agendas against various individuals and I have seen my share of hyped up or fake complaints about copyright infringement against a member by people who have no ownership of the material whatsoever, are not the forum owner or even moderator of the forum therefore no personal liability. They have no skin in the game but they are making it their business to try and get a member in trouble using the forum owner and moderators as pawns. I even had a group contact my hosting provider claiming copyright infringement demanding the hosting provider shut down my entire site. They would not sign a DMCA Notification and the hosting provider refused to take any action. They then threatened him personally and that's when he finally alerted me to the issue.

I paid absolutely no attention to complaints of copyright infringement from people who didn't own it. If there are people here who believe Wendy violated copyright, I suggest alerting the originator of the content to the issue and then leave it be.

JeanneH3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 158

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 02/11/2023 6:15 AM

Copyright violations are against posting rules almost everywhere, because website owners don't want to be sued by litigious authors or others who are the copyright holders of the protected work.

Here is what HOAtalk.com policies on copyright infringement states:

NOTICES AND PROCEDURE FOR MAKING CLAIMS OF COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT

Pursuant to Title 17, United States Code, Section 512(c)(2), notifications of claimed copyright infringement under United States copyright law should be sent to Service Provider's Designated Agent. ALL INQUIRIES NOT RELEVANT TO THE FOLLOWING PROCEDURE WILL RECEIVE NO RESPONSE. See Notice and Procedure for Making Claims of Copyright Infringement.

I'm going to assume this applies to the person who actually owns the copyright.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By WendyM5 on 02/10/2023 9:22 AM
[quoting another site]
Here our experts offer four suggestions, along with insights on the broader problems facing a deadlocked board.

1. Ask the resignee to return. If it helps break the tie, you could ask the member who's recently left to step back in until a long–term solution can be crafted. "You can certainly ask him to come back," says Debra A. Warren, vice president of client relations at the Dallas–based Associa®, a community association management company with offices throughout the United States, Canada, and Mexico. "That member isn't disqualified because of his resignation, so the board can reappoint him." [other good stuff snipped for brevity]

Wendy, thank you for posting a response thoroughly on point and helpful to the OP.

Anyone could google and instantly identify that this excellent advice came from hoaleader.com . Not for a second do I think there was any violation of the forum's rules or the law here.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Why doesn't Wendy want us to read the entire article for ourselves? It's simple and courteous to let us know the source of the citation.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

What makes you think Wendy did not want you to read the entire article?

This thread is overrun with ankle biters.

JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880

Posted:

The first time that one of the board members does not show up or leaves early, then the other three board members can vote on a new board member.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

From the article Wendy provided, this worked for my board, as I wrote above, the very few times there was a tie: "Usually when there's a tie, someone's going to make a motion or a proposed resolution, and there are certain people in a camp who won't like it. But maybe that's because of just a couple of words in it. Sometimes resolving the issue relies on your ability to modify the motion at hand subtly."

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 02/11/2023 8:34 AM

Posted By WendyM5 on 02/10/2023 9:22 AM
[quoting another site]
Here our experts offer four suggestions, along with insights on the broader problems facing a deadlocked board.

1. Ask the resignee to return. If it helps break the tie, you could ask the member who's recently left to step back in until a long–term solution can be crafted. "You can certainly ask him to come back," says Debra A. Warren, vice president of client relations at the Dallas–based Associa®, a community association management company with offices throughout the United States, Canada, and Mexico. "That member isn't disqualified because of his resignation, so the board can reappoint him." [other good stuff snipped for brevity]

Wendy, thank you for posting a response thoroughly on point and helpful to the OP.

Anyone could google and instantly identify that this excellent advice came from hoaleader.com . Not for a second do I think there was any violation of the forum's rules or the law here.

So HOALeader.com posts the following on the bottom of their site just for the heck of it, huh? Quote:

© 2023 Plain-English Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved. Reproduction without permission prohibited.

The fact that the article has good advice doesn't give you a pass. Post a teaser quote, followed by the link - it's so easy to get this right, I can't understand why some insist on doing it wrong.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Agree with you Cathy--so easy to do it right.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

CathyA3, do let the forum know when you report Wendy to the hoaleader site and the hoatalk site. Then do also report the many other instances of posting lengthy copyrighted material that occur here.

Nothing like shooting down someone who posts outstanding advice.