Annual Meeting Ballots

I would defer to Max's opinion on this, as he is in CA.

I would defer to Kerry, as she is the expwet in CA.

Actually, it's high time that someone with years of community management in CA as Max has and who's been involved in many many annual meetings & elections to show us if he can do more than just make silly remarks & comments.

I've been away for a few days so am catching up. C'mon Max are you able to offer anything useful to LmT?

Question to LmT: Where will the inspectors physically be to tabulate the ballots? Are you on the board? WHO sent you the email, i.e., who is "they?"

I haven’t been on this forum for awhile but on reading through some of these threads I have noticed some animosity between members. Anyway, that said, I thank you Kerry for your response.

The inspectors will be at their office about one hundred miles away Zooming in for the meeting to fulfill their role as inspectors. Our meeting will be where we live and also accessible via Zoom.

I am not on the board but I am a candidate in the election.

The email was sent by our management company to those of us with email addresses on file. Those without email addresses - I don’t know how they will be informed. Probably eight or ten percent of homeowners.

Form what you've written so far, LmT, your board is not complying with CA election statutes for HOAs. It also probably is not complying with your HOA's state-required election rules. Do you have a copy?

How can the inspectors count ballots if they aren't physically present? Were the ballots mailed to them? If not, where did you mail your secret ballot? How can owners observe them tabulating, as required by CA law, if there is no place to watch them?

Please clarify, there WILL be a physical place to attend the meeting? Your first post indicated there would be no physical space for the meeting?

I'm thinking hard about your situation and a little more info would help. How many are on the board? How many will be elected? What size is your HOA?

What is the wording on your ballot materials about the time and place of the meeting? What is the wording about how/where/when voters may turn in their ballots?

Meanwhile, Jeanne's idea about calling out "point of Order!" is good and I was thinking along those lines too. She has had. experience with crooked boards & elections.

Do try to gather other owners to attend especially in person if there is a real place. Some of the advice Jeanne gives and I'll give may not work on Zoom if you are purposely muted by the prez.

Sorry I couldn't return sooner. Maybe the meeting is going on right now. This is all I can come up with since I've never experienced this in 15+ years in my HOA & 14 on the board. If you have time, go to Davis-stirling.com, Index, Elections and review it and the Civil Code that relates to your problems. If you're lucky the requirements that your board seems to be ignoring are all in your section rules, so you won't have to turn to Civl Code.

CA statutes require that meetings of the members, i.e., annual elections, follow some parliamentary procedure. It is YOUR (the owners) meeting!

Assuming the president is presiding, first just try raising your hand (Zoom fashion if only on Zoom) and stating your concerns as politely as possible. Maybe try: “Per all of Civil Code 5100, every owner's vote must count. The ballot materials we rec'd in the mail said the election would be on xxx at xxx. Some owners bring their ballot to to the meeting. To change the meeting place requires much more notice than you gave us. It requires 30 days notice. Not only that, some owners did not even receive ballots. I move that the election meeting be adjourned to March xxx, 2023, so that every qualified voter has a voice."

Thing is, you need someone to second your motion. You need as many others as you can gather because you owners should be allowed to vote on this adjournment. It IS a meeting of the Owners.

BUT, if your board is like Jeanne's, if you're on Zoom, you may be muted.

I'd say if you are unable to even make a motion, then follow Jeanne and call "point of Order!" Yes you may shout this. If you are in the meeting room. Jump to your feet and call "point of order!!" "By CA civil code 5120, we must be able to watch the inspectors count the ballots." The election must be postponed until we may observe them."

AND/OR "Point of Order!" Per civil code 5115 , all eligible owners must receive ballots with the date, time & place of the meeting where the ballots will be tabulated. They did not. We must adjourn the tabulation of the ballots for at least 30 days."

I'll stop think about this sine I m ay be too late. If so, pleas report back about what occurred at the meeting.

And, if the members PRESENT at the meeting, either in person or by Zoom, vote not to extend balloting, then what? It does happen.

CORRECTION: There is NOTHING in what the poster said that says proper notice and proper notice WASN'T sent in the proper timeframe.

California Civil Code §5515(f) states that EXCEPT for the counting of the ballots at a duly noticed meeting, elections can be held entirely by mail. Therefore, an association can state in their notice that ballots must be returned by a certain date and no ballots may be submitted at the meeting. Not all HOAs will do that, but the law does allow it.

WHAT, if the email was just a REMINDER and not a change? Do you know that for a fact?

The meeting was this morning at 10.00 a.m.
There was a physical venue as well as ability to Zoom in.
The inspectors zoomed in to the meeting and were available for home owners to see if they wanted to. No-one did as we would have to stand behind the BOD to observe on a computer screen but that didn't bother anyone (including me).
I couldn't hear properly but it sounded as if those involved in the inability to vote were allowed the opportunity to email (not sure how that worked but we went from 27 votes to 33 votes returned (two disqualified for not signed the ballot) - not bad in a community of only 40 homes)
The company who handles the secret ballots is experienced and appears to follow the rules. They are independent of any company employed by the HOA.

I was elected to the board of directors and when our next secret ballot takes place I will pay very close attention to how it is handled. This mess should not have happened and could have easily been avoided. We could have had our own impartial ballot counters at the meeting with a little planning.

Nobody seemed unhappy with the outcome of this election and meeting - at least not up to now.

I think this is something we may have to make clear when noticing the next election/ballot.

We have a lot of second homes here (mostly snowbirds) who have addresses out of state/country. It's probably their own fault they didn't receive ballots because they use their primary addresses; however, In the past it's been simple to drop in at our management company offices and get a duplicate ballot but that all changed with the new election rules and now our accountants and election services (even our community manager) are not local.

Don't get me wrong - I believe being able to attend a meeting remotely is excellent especially in a resort community like ours. It also means more homeowners might be willing to serve on the board of directors even though they live several months of the year in a different state or location (as I do).

Congratulations, LmT. It's always good to see new directors who want to learn their governing documents and Civil Code. The Davis-stirling.com website above an answer just about any question a CA director asks. It's even good for none CA HOAs re: general topics like contracts, sample minutes, and many other topics.

While you are allowed to hold elections entirely by mail, holding them onsite & on Zoom gives members a chance to get to know each other better.

I, too don't know how those who hadn't rec'd ballots were allowed to vote "by email," since ballots are supposed to be secret. Given that they didn't receive ballots, apparently, this was the fairest way to conduct the election. It is why there was no need to motion for a postponement. It sounds like everyone who wanted to was able to vote. So everyone was satisfied.

If your bylaws state that voters may physically bring their ballots to the annul meeting, you may not disallow it (without amending your bylaws)

Confused about voting with a show of hands. In CA, voting for directors only may be by secret ballot. In addition ballots may not be signed, yet you note a ballot was thrown out because it wasn't signed. Typo?

Every year CA assns. must send out a whole lot of documents with the budget packet. There always is a form for owners to update their mailing addresses. 25% of Owners in my HOA are absentee and they all fill out this form so that they get their ballots. In your first election memo to Owners, remind Owners that they want the assn. to have their primary mailing address.

Are you saying your election rules do not permit Owners to get a new ballot if they destroy or misplace their original one?

Max. Would you tell me where I can find change/confirmation or something I can present regarding the ruling 70-504. They announced that a separate ballot would be sent out for this vote. That, of course, would cost $.
My first meeting as a director is on Friday and I would like to be prepared. Thank you for highlighting this as I believe we do file 1120-H so not having to conduct a separate ballot would be a good deal for our HOA coffers.

https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/E/Excess-Income-Resolution

Yeah, no real dispute.

The OP's HOA consists of townhomes. With the increase in interest rates, I am figuring more and more condo/townhome associations may have reserve funds throwing off enough interest that the HOA's accountant might want the option of filing form 1120 (and not form 1120-H). If the accountant ends up wanting to file form 1120, then the Ruling 70-604 vote needs to happen, like the D-S site Max linked says.

I figure this might vote might require some brush-up for the many condo/townhome boards that have been filing form 1120-H for years but suddenly have like $50,000 of interest to report. If the Board or manager just explains to owners that the vote ensures the HOA's accountant has maximum flexibility to minimize the taxes the HOA owns, I guess it is not that complicated.

I still do not think Ruling 70-604 requires that this vote occur on the same ballot as the ballot for electing directors.

Yes, sorry it was a typo the resolution on our agenda referred to "Approval of IRS Revenue Ruling 70-604'

We do have some income from interest but not very much and we do have some income from outside functions - probably around 20K

The approval of 70-604 has always been on the agenda as long as I have been here.

If my memory is correct (although I could be completely wrong) and I thought it was motioned and voted at the meeting. However, that might have been something very different (perhaps the minutes).

The agenda item reads, "Approval of IRS Revenue Ruling 70-604 - Inspector of Elections" which leads me to believe it was intended to be on the ballot. However, all of our admin is new - Manager, Accountant and Election Services. I suspect a previous years agenda was used as a boiler plate for this meeting.

I'm not going to make a big deal of this but I do want to have a clear understanding of what we are required to do as an Association.

If you have an outside income of $20K, your accountant may file the 1120 form to cut your possible tax from $6K to $3K. It will cost your association probably another thousand in accountant services to file 1120.

These are the only items requiring a secret ballot

1) special assessments over 5% (see exceptions) or regular assessments over 20% ( see Civ. Code § 5605), election and removal of directors,
2) amendments to the governing documents (see exception), and
3) grant of exclusive use of common area property (see exceptions).

IRS ruling 70-604 does not fall under that category. Normally, it was put on the ballot merely for convenience, and the time of year elections was held. It can be done by a show of hands at a meeting, or even done as a survey with one of the online survey platforms.

Thank you.

Having our owners volunteer to be inspectors is a thought for next year but logistically it may not be feasible. We have a year to think about it.

We do have a ballot regarding an assessment going out later this year and it would be nice to know our options but I will post separately for information/advice on that when the time comes.

LmT

If you indeed have a website, you can save money on printing costs and posting information that normally you would mail. Your management company should be able to help you with that.