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JeanneH3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 158
Posted:
The BOD of our condominium association released a very rare draft version of the minutes of a single recent meeting which contained a mysterious paragraph about the Town Fire Department removing an electrical meter, the removal of which caused there to be no electricity in either a unit or the building so that when there were uncharacteristic freezing temperatures overnight, the pipes froze and burst. The BOD wants the Town to reimburse for the cost of repair.

Why would the Fire Department be removing an electrical meter and not the utility company?
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
does seem strange, I'll call the fire department and ask.

vis ta vie
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Ask the board, they almost certainly know. This level of detail won't necessarily appear in minutes, which are usually a summary of votes and other actions agreed to.

Speculation:

* the electrical meter was malfunctioning and was an immediate fire risk

* the meter controlled a fire suppression system and was generating false alarms

Fire departments are often first responders, and they won't wait until people go through normal channels to address whatever the problem is. They take care of the immediate danger - if that means removing a problematic piece of equipment, then that's what they'll do. You can assume they had a good reason.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
I wonder if something got lost in translation here. Was there a fire or suspected fire in one of the condo units at some point? For a report of fire or suspected fire, I can see a fire department's first action being to open the master breaker to a home. (This is S.O.P. in the military. For example, aboard naval ships.) This is because electrical wires are often the cause of a fire. Turning off power to the wires can stop the fire and keep everyone safer while fighting the fire.

Even if the source of a fire was not electrical wiring, any fire that did occur might have melted wiring insulation. Hence the home should not be electrically powered again until a professional inspection is done.

I suspect the duty to professionally inspect and if allowed, re-energize the home, falls on the homeowner or possibly the HOA.

Ya gotta ask questions. If the board just does not get it, they should turn this over to the HOA manager or HOA attorney to translate.

JeanneH3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 158
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 02/09/2023 5:42 AM
Ask the board, they almost certainly know. This level of detail won't necessarily appear in minutes, which are usually a summary of votes and other actions agreed to.

Speculation:

* the electrical meter was malfunctioning and was an immediate fire risk

* the meter controlled a fire suppression system and was generating false alarms

Fire departments are often first responders, and they won't wait until people go through normal channels to address whatever the problem is. They take care of the immediate danger - if that means removing a problematic piece of equipment, then that's what they'll do. You can assume they had a good reason.

I called the Town Fire Department and ended up talking to the Fire Chief. This event happened on Christmas Day when exterior sprinklers above the patio doors froze and burst flooding 3 stories of condo units. He said water was pouring out of electrical sockets. They turned off the water and the fire suppression system. It is not their department policy to remove electrical meters so the electrical company was called and they removed it. CHief called the MC 8 times only to receive a repeated answering machine that threatened an $80 penalty fee if the situation was not "life or death" (we owners know this well). After assessing the situation as under control, the meter was put back by the electrical company. There is a public record of this fire department call.

The BOD's meeting minutes blamed the burst pipes on the Fire Department removing the electrical meter leaving no electricity to the unit (no heat) so the pipes froze. Meeting minutes further state that they will be contacting the Town Manager to seek reimbursement for the cost of repairs due to the actions of the Fire Department. Fire Chief stated the pipes/sprinklers were frozen and burst well before the electrical meter was removed.

"Ask the board"....yeah, well, our board is secretive and does not respond to any questions from anyone.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Yeah, well, some boards will do whatever as long as the HOMEOWNERS let them get away with it.

You have the meeting minutes, so why not attend the next meeting, tell them what you found, and ask them to respond? If they don't or refuse to, you may need to consult a private attorney to blast the information out that way. If yours was one of the affected condo units, you may also want to get together with everyone else whose unit was flooded and call for a special homeowners meeting to discuss all of this (read your documents to see how they're called). This may or may not lead to another meeting to vote on a recall of some or all these board members. A recall vote will mean there will need to be other homeowners (like you) willing to step up and take over if you succeed, so consider carefully what you want to do.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Now that sounds more like what would happen in this situation. I think whomever handled the situation had communicated it wrongly. Was this a board person or your MC? If it was your MC then they are an idiot and really would be concerned about them. If it was a board member then they are taking everyone down a dangerous rabbit hole.

Having been in similar situations the Fire chief story rings very true. That is exactly what would happen. Plus the HOA would not typically have access to the property as they do not own them.

We had a home that froze and pipes broke. The house was empty. A neighbor got into the house luckily and was able to get water shut off. It was flooded. Technically we were breaking in and entering. Illegal. The owner could have pressed charges. Instead they left house abandoned and we ended up foreclosing on it.

I will tell you the electric company will not return electricity till it is fixed. My wire fell away from my house. Was low across the road. I had to spend 6K in tree removal and electrical system expenses before they hooked up my house again. A week without electricity in 100 degrees weather...

You HOA most likely had to fix it before electric could be hooked up. The insurance premium may been higher than the expense. They want to blame it on someone to pick up the claim. It should be the homeowners insurance. It will be a mess if they do not recognize the right process.

Former HOA President
JeanneH3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 158
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 02/13/2023 7:46 AM
Yeah, well, some boards will do whatever as long as the HOMEOWNERS let them get away with it.

You have the meeting minutes, so why not attend the next meeting, tell them what you found, and ask them to respond? If they don't or refuse to, you may need to consult a private attorney to blast the information out that way. If yours was one of the affected condo units, you may also want to get together with everyone else whose unit was flooded and call for a special homeowners meeting to discuss all of this (read your documents to see how they're called). This may or may not lead to another meeting to vote on a recall of some or all these board members. A recall vote will mean there will need to be other homeowners (like you) willing to step up and take over if you succeed, so consider carefully what you want to do.

FYI, the meeting minutes I have are only one of two released in the past 4 years. The only way this past set of minutes was released was because I was challenging the board on a private owners' Facebook group that not one of us knew diddly squat what was going on with a time sensitive issue.

I cannot "attend the next meeting" because the board keeps the date, time and location a secret and they are intentionally not complying with state law to have open meetings at regular intervals. The board does not respond to emails and phone calls thus created a need for concerned owners to form into a committee, create a blog, send out mailings to owners to get them up to speed on how serious the situation is and begin the foundations of reforming the board.

I did request a copy of the fire report from the fire department and once I have it, will likely post it to the blog.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Jeanne wrote: "...I cannot 'attend the next meeting' because the board keeps the date, time and location a secret and they are intentionally not complying with state law to have open meetings at regular intervals. The board does not respond to emails and phone calls thus created a need for concerned owners to form into a committee, create a blog, send out mailings to owners to get them up to speed on how serious the situation is and begin the foundations of reforming the board."

This coalition that you've created will work to change out some board members at the next election. Joint, methodical, purposeful, educated action IS effective. Keep at it. Your main obstacle, based on what you've written, is how to get the current board to run a legally correct election.

When will it be? Or will you try for a recall, which is much trickier?
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
fire dept stepped in because pipes burst, and they shut off water and electrical. and you want to go after the fire dept for additional burst pipes? how would one prove those pipes didnt burst at the same time as the others?
JeanneH3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 158
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 02/23/2023 11:18 AM
fire dept stepped in because pipes burst, and they shut off water and electrical. and you want to go after the fire dept for additional burst pipes? how would one prove those pipes didnt burst at the same time as the others?

I have no problem with what the fire department did when called about burst pipes. It's the Board that has the problem blaming the FD for pulling the electrical meter that they claim burst the pipes. A previous incidence about 5 years ago, the same pipes in the same buildings froze and burst water damaging 11 units to the tune of $200K. The FD was not called for that incident. As far as I can tell, the FD saved the HOA tens of thousands of dollars responding quickly to the recent incident by shutting off the water and made sure there was no electricity+water that could cause a fire.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
i guess what im trying to point out is, if the hoa does this, whats next, whats next, whats next.

if you go after a municipality, it goes to thier insurance provider. they will likely deny liability which means you must sue. this case will lokely drag on for a couple of years, a d likely find the fire dept has no liability. the hoa will have a huge lawyer bill and may also need to pay the lawyer for the other side which means a special assessment for homeowners to pay
JeanneH3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 158
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 02/24/2023 3:00 PM
i guess what im trying to point out is, if the hoa does this, whats next, whats next, whats next.

if you go after a municipality, it goes to thier insurance provider. they will likely deny liability which means you must sue. this case will lokely drag on for a couple of years, a d likely find the fire dept has no liability. the hoa will have a huge lawyer bill and may also need to pay the lawyer for the other side which means a special assessment for homeowners to pay

Yes, that is my concern as well. The BOD's minutes almost sounded like code for "preamble to a lawsuit".

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