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WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
I'm shocked, this guy installed solar on his home in Feb of 2018, Now 5 years latter he actually won! Everyone expected the NC supreme court to just rubber stamp the lower courts ruling against the Home owner, but instead the high court reversed the case. Wonder how long the HOA will take to return the $52,000 in fines that were dished out? probably more $50/days for 5 years is $73K. My HOA had previously denied solar panels on front of my house, might get some fnow because they look so pretty. Article is below.

North Carolina Supreme Court Issues Important Solar Panel Case

In a case of wide-reaching impact, the North Carolina Supreme Court on Friday, June 17, 2022, issued its decision in Belmont Association, Inc. v. Farwig. An earlier blog discussed the factual background and decision from the Court of Appeals in detail.

By way of brief summary, the homeowners in this case installed solar panels on the front facing façade of their roof without approval and the homeowners association commenced fines. Nothing in the declaration explicitly regulated solar collectors, but the association, pursuant to its general authority over architectural matters and aesthetics, refused to allow their installation on the front roof.

The trial court ruled in favor of the association. The homeowners appealed. The NC Court of Appeals affirmed the trial court’s judgment and held that the statute allowed the association to deny solar panels in this case because the installation on the front roof was visible by a person on the ground. The Court of Appeals decision contained a dissent, giving the homeowners an automatic right of appeal to the North Carolina Supreme Court. Many assumed that the Supreme Court would uphold the Court of Appeals decision, but in a surprise ruling it sided with the homeowners, reversed and remanded the case to the trial court for it to enter summary judgment for the homeowners.

The Supreme Court’s analysis focused on statutory construction. The Court held that restrictions that effectively prohibit solar installations are invalid. The Court held that there are two exceptions.

The first exception appears in the statute itself and allows an association to prohibit solar installations in three general areas: on the façade of the home, on front roof surfaces, and in the front yard. Despite this language, the Court held that because there was no specific prohibition against solar installations in the declaration, the Association could not take advantage of this exception.

The second exception is even more difficult to quantify. It allows an Association to prohibit a solar installation if that prohibition does not “have the effect of preventing the reasonable use of a solar collector.” Here, the Court held that the association’s decision to deny the solar panels on the front roof did have the effect of preventing the reasonable use of a solar collector and granted summary judgment in the homeowners’ favor.

It is clear that the Supreme Court struggled with this decision because three justices not only disagreed with the majority’s decision but authored two separate dissenting opinions explaining their disagreement with the majority. However, the decision of the majority stands and will guide community associations going forward. What does this mean for your community?

For North Carolina communities not subject to N.C.G.S. 22B-20, the association can continue to regulate solar panels pursuant to its general architectural review authority. These communities can exercise their architectural authority to allow, prohibit, or allow with limitations on placement.
For North Carolina associations that are subject to the statute, authority to regulate solar panels has changed. If the Declaration specifically addressees restrictions on solar collectors, the association can prohibit solar collectors in the areas outlined in the statute. If, however, the declaration only contains general architectural oversight authority, then the association cannot prohibit solar collectors from being installed on the front facing facades of homes if that regulation would prevent the reasonable use of a solar collector. What does this mean? In most cases, it will likely come down to whether the association’s rule reduces the efficiency or usefulness of the solar panels. A homeowner likely can be asked to verify this reduction in efficiency. We do not yet have any clear direction on how much of a reduction in efficiency is reasonable. Is it 10%? 20%? Other states have statutes that outline what that reduction may be, but there is no guidance at this point.
This decision from the Supreme Court is brand new and we are still considering how it will impact specific communities in North Carolina. If you have questions about how this decision may impact your community, please feel free to contact any of our experienced community association attorneys.

vis ta vie
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I wonder how long it will take for the electricity savings to cover the legal costs of a 5-year long legal battle.

(Disclaimer: I'm all in favor of solar energy. Not just the savings but also the independence from the grid when there are power outages, which I bet many people have been thinking about this winter. I noticed on Google maps that someone in an HOA down the street has installed solar panels on their roof. May have to take another look at that community.)
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 02/05/2023 6:30 AM
I wonder how long it will take for the electricity savings to cover the legal costs of a 5-year long legal battle.

(Disclaimer: I'm all in favor of solar energy. Not just the savings but also the independence from the grid when there are power outages, which I bet many people have been thinking about this winter. I noticed on Google maps that someone in an HOA down the street has installed solar panels on their roof. May have to take another look at that community.)

Yep I wonder about that too. Since they won does the HOA have to pay any of their legal fees? The HOA I assume has to return the $52K in fines? If the fines never stopped its actually about $60K in fines. The solar company that installed the panels agreed to pay the fines if he lost so he did have some financial back up. Not sure if solar panel company will also pay his legal fees, but they should.

vis ta vie
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
I wouldn't be surprised if the HOA used the $52K in fines to pay their lawyer fees and are now have to charge a special assessment to recoop the money they pissed away over this petty issue.

vis ta vie
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I like the idea of solar panels too, but I wish this homeowner had gone yo the board from the beginning to ask permission. They may have still said no, but that may have started a conversation where tge homeowner and company could educate the board and community on their advantages and addressed any concerns. Perhaps this could have been squashed five years ago and everyone would have saved time and money

When this has come up in my state, the usual objection was some gobbdygook about property values - I say that because solar panels are coming into wider use and no one can say for sure that a hone sale went down the tubes because the potential buyers didn't like that the house down the street had them. That's probably why our state passed a law last year that says the HOA can't ban them, but can establish reasonable rules on their placement.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
actually I'm glad the solar installation company messed up because if they had followed their own rules to get HOA permission they would of been denied and that would be the end of it. Now the SC of NC has ruled the law has been incorrectly interpreted by hundreds(thousands?) of HOA's which will now have no petty reason to reject them.

Anyone that knows anything about solar knows "reasonable rules" on where they are placed are a joke. There is only one direction that gives the best performance and that is solar south. Any rule that says they need to be placed in a different orientation makes them less effcient. many times drastically so. These panels only make about 20 cents a day of electricity, who is the HOA to say I have to place them on the North Side of a roof and so they now only make 10 cents a day.


vis ta vie
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Well, I would hope this HOA had some sort of appeals process - the initial no doesn't have to be the end. Instead people get mad and sue- sometimes that is necessary, but I prefer to try the process first because if I do go to court, I want to win going away. Especially if the board refused to listen to reason- they might not agree, but to dismisse the matter out of hand just because "we are the board and therefore we are" is being hard-headed

Not everyone is educated on this stuff, which is why homeowners who want them can start by making sure the board understands how panels work. It may be some people will have to make other arrangements if their lot doesn't face south ir there's already something there that can't be moved.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I've seen info about solar shingles, which look a lot like regular shingles and can either sit on top of or replace the regular shingles. This may be helpful if roof aesthetics is an issue. They do have some disadvantages: higher cost, more limited availability, and since they sit on the roof you can't adjust for optimal orientation.

The folks who really have challenges are the condo owners since everything outside is common elements and can be regulated by the association. Roof installations may be out (we don't allow satellite dishes on our roofs, which is not unusual) and there will probably be issues with placement in the yard (the lawn care crew would have something to say).

Some companies make see-through photovoltaic windows and photovoltaic window film, and supposedly these can generate more electricity than roof-top panels. Something like this may be suitable for condos if they look enough like conventional windows.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
My HOA before jumping to conclusions that a HOA would deny any "green energy" options most likely would have allowed it. However, it would have involved rewriting the CC&R's and Bylaws to reflect the allowance of it. Plus we would have had to do more research on the matter to decide what would be the best technology and not look like an eyesore. I would not just take the Solar Panels salesman word for it. I think since it would effect ALL of the members we would want to interview various companies to approve them. Not all companies are equal.

Plus I would also like to talk to the Utilities department to make sure what they are for or against. Some set ups sell back the unused energy back to the utility department. Our local Utility may have an entire set up to install as well for that to happen. Another consideration.

The owner should have worked WITH the HOA for permission and sharing ideas. A good idea that would benefit many, should have been discussed on how best to incorporate it. Plus allow it in the documents. Technology changes especially "Green" tech. That is why many HOA's would have an issue approving some Green options as it is one of the fastest growing and changing technologies around.

All of this would have been avoided if ask permission than forgiveness in a HOA...

Former HOA President
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
I wonder how much the passage of time and climate events influenced the outcome here.

It looks like it was a 5-2 decision by North Carolina's highest court. Do not quote me on this.

Four IMO rather big gun outside parties lawyered up and filed amicus curiae briefs:

(For defendants Farwig and Farwig)

Southern Environmental Law Center

"Solar Industry Businesses" (a kind of lobbying group?)

the Solicitor General of the state of North Carolina

(For the HOA)

Community Associations Institute (CAI). See CAI's brief on behalf of the HOA appears here: https://www.caionline.org/Advocacy/LegalArena/Amicus/Documents/2021/Belmont%20Association%2C%20Inc.%20v.%20Thomas%20Farwig%20Amicus%20Brief%20FINAL.pdf . In its brief, CAI took a swipe at Solar Industry Businesses, saying Solar Industry Businesses has conflicts of interest and "such should be considered in review of [SIB's] amicus curiae brief." CAI wants to talk about conflicts of interest, eh? CAI's general position was that the covenants are a contract and the lower courts interpreted the contract correctly.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
I thought it came down to what authority does an architectural committee have when approving/disapproving requests.

The covenants in question did not ban solar panels - hence, could the committee ban them?

I believe that this is an issue many associations have and until it's taken to court - nobody really knows.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 02/05/2023 8:10 AM

All of this would have been avoided if ask permission than forgiveness in a HOA...

So allowing ONLY this homeowner and a his handful of his neighbors to install solar panels is the correct out come according to you.

The actual outcome with it going to court, which allows millions of people living in HOAs across the state to install solar is the incorrect outcome?

And to top it off, you would only allow it after it took years to change the CCR's, only certain vendors, and only certain technologies.

you really are something!

vis ta vie
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 02/05/2023 8:10 AM

All of this would have been avoided if ask permission than forgiveness in a HOA...

So allowing ONLY this homeowner and a his handful of his neighbors to install solar panels is the correct out come according to you.

The actual outcome with it going to court, which allows millions of people living in HOAs across the state to install solar is the incorrect outcome?

And to top it off, you would only allow it after it took years to change the CCR's, only certain vendors, and only certain technologies.

you really are something!

vis ta vie
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Finally, chalk one up for the little guy.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 02/05/2023 8:47 AM

Community Associations Institute (CAI). See CAI's brief on behalf of the HOA appears here: https://www.caionline.org/Advocacy/LegalArena/Amicus/Documents/2021/Belmont%20Association%2C%20Inc.%20v.%20Thomas%20Farwig%20Amicus%20Brief%20FINAL.pdf

thanks for this! will have to read it.

vis ta vie
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 02/05/2023 8:47 AM
It looks like it was a 5-2 decision by North Carolina's highest court.
Correction. It was 4-3.

https://casetext.com/case/belmont-assn-v-farwig
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 02/05/2023 8:56 AM
I thought it came down to what authority does an architectural committee have when approving/disapproving requests.

The covenants in question did not ban solar panels - hence, could the committee ban them?

I believe that this is an issue many associations have and until it's taken to court - nobody really knows.

Yes, that is a pretty good summary. Very few CCR's that Iv'e read in NC specfically address solar panels, so by default this court ruling pretty much allows solar panels everywhere.

but the sad part is HOA's will still continue to decine solar panels installs and only smart owners will be able to fight it.

vis ta vie
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
I see this dispute is not over. The NC Supreme Court ruled on some aspects here but also determined other facts, regarding whether the HOA is violating a certain NC solar rights statute, have not yet been established. From the majority decision's closing paragraph:

"The trial court summarily concluded that "subsection (c) [of xyz North Carolina solar rights statute] ... is not applicable because subsection (d) is applicable." Thus, the trial court never found that the ARC's decision prevented "the reasonable use of a solar collector" under subsection (c). N.C.G.S. § 22B-20(c). This factual determination is for the trial court, not an appellate court. Therefore, this case should be remanded to the trial court to make this factual determination."
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 02/05/2023 9:17 AM
I see this dispute is not over. The NC Supreme Court ruled on some aspects here but also determined other facts, regarding whether the HOA is violating a certain NC solar rights statute, have not yet been established. From the majority decision's closing paragraph:

"The trial court summarily concluded that "subsection (c) [of xyz North Carolina solar rights statute] ... is not applicable because subsection (d) is applicable." Thus, the trial court never found that the ARC's decision prevented "the reasonable use of a solar collector" under subsection (c). N.C.G.S. § 22B-20(c). This factual determination is for the trial court, not an appellate court. Therefore, this case should be remanded to the trial court to make this factual determination."
Wrong. Ignore the above. One of the dissenting opinions (not the majority opinion) said this. The NC Supreme Court granted summary judgment to owners Farwig.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 02/05/2023 8:47 AM

Community Associations Institute (CAI). See CAI's brief on behalf of the HOA appears here: https://www.caionline.org/Advocacy/LegalArena/Amicus/Documents/2021/Belmont%20Association%2C%20Inc.%20v.%20Thomas%20Farwig%20Amicus%20Brief%20FINAL.pdf . In its brief, CAI took a swipe at Solar Industry Businesses, saying Solar Industry Businesses has conflicts of interest and "such should be considered in review of [SIB's] amicus curiae brief." CAI wants to talk about conflicts of interest, eh? CAI's general position was that the covenants are a contract and the lower courts interpreted the contract correctly.

To top it all off this Amicus Brief was written by a local Charlotte Law firm. This law firm is the only one that has a blog that keeps me uptodate on changing NC HOA laws. Sad to learn they sleep with CAI, but not surprised CAI and it's members probably are most of it's buinsess income.

vis ta vie
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WendyM5 on 02/05/2023 11:52 AM
To top it all off this Amicus Brief was written by a local Charlotte Law firm. This law firm is the only one that has a blog that keeps me uptodate on changing NC HOA laws. Sad to learn they sleep with CAI, but not surprised CAI and it's members probably are most of it's buinsess income.
Yeah, really (seriously). Doesn't having as much fighting as possible over what covenants say tend to benefit CAI-affiliated attorneys? The NC Supreme Court ruling does seem powerful, given the North Carolina solar rights statute and how HOA covenants typically do not explicitly address solar. Now on solar at least, I expect somewhat less fighting between boards and owners.

Though your point that HOA boards will still make the wrong choices and dig into a bad position (abetted by CAI-affiliate attorneys?) is well taken.

Sorry to screw up your thread with my mistakes above.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Now your putting words in my mouth I never said? I said I would allow ANY member in our HOA to install solar panels if they wanted to. No Selective enforcement nor need to go to court. We would SELECT the best Green Option available and offer that choice to the owners. The HOA doing the research so that what is installed is consistent with others. Plus we would also update our ACC/Rules to include it. However, our Documents like many HOA's do often have "Green Energy" caveats in their documents already. This would just define it better.

BTW: Why are we discussing this issue in the first place? This isn't a complaint forum here to bring up complaints about HOA's in general. It is for ADVICE for those dealing with an ACTUAL issue effecting them directly. It's not "Somewhere in HOA in the world they are doing this...". I am not into "Theory of a HOA". I am more with dealing with direct issues effecting someone immediately.

Former HOA President
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
you are free to not click on any topic and not discuss anything you do not want to. Just like people don't have to buy a home in an HOA, you dont' have to read or reply to anything you dont' like.

vis ta vie
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
The homeowner won which is good, in the end the entire community is paying higher assessments because their D&O premiums just went up. Also, who's to say the homeowner paid the fines?
Typically the homeowners lawyer will fie an injunction to halt all fines, similar to a BK when you can't touch the petitioner. More and more states are passing laws that allow PV panels to be placed
anywhere on the roof to attain maximum benefit of their solar system. You can't fault a homeowner because their house faces a different direction than their neighbor.
The court got it right. This will make HOA boards stop and think before they spend community assessments on stupid litigation.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LetA on 02/05/2023 4:25 PM
The homeowner won which is good, in the end the entire community is paying higher assessments because their D&O premiums just went up. Also, who's to say the homeowner paid the fines?
Typically the homeowners lawyer will fie an injunction to halt all fines, similar to a BK when you can't touch the petitioner. More and more states are passing laws that allow PV panels to be placed
anywhere on the roof to attain maximum benefit of their solar system. You can't fault a homeowner because their house faces a different direction than their neighbor.
The court got it right. This will make HOA boards stop and think before they spend community assessments on stupid litigation.

Several articles state the home owner was paying lots of fines to prevent his home from getting foreclosed on. It would be interesting to find out how much the HOA wasted on litigation. $50/day fine is pretty vicious. No wonder most people dont' challenge HOA fines, because they are so high they lead to bankruptcy for many.

vis ta vie
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LetA on 02/05/2023 4:25 PM

Also, who's to say the homeowner paid the fines?

If you read the court documents in the link I provided earlier, you will see that the homeowner was paying fines to prevent foreclosure.

It is unclear if the homeowner will get the fines back.

LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
I'm personally disappointed by this ruling. I know that everyone is pro solar and in theory it's a great thing to produce your own energy using your roof. Especially here in Florida where we have lots of sunshine.

Panels on the front of the roof are just plain ugly. Our community was built so all the houses have the same style, but many different types and floor plans. We are still trying, 20 years later, to keep things in the same style but moving on with the times. But then you put those ugly black panels all over the front of the roof and it just looks like crap. Nobody can tell me it improves the look of the house.

That's just cosmetic and probably seems silly. But my real issue is that the solar panel industry is so unregulated. Many of the companies are scams and will tell you anything to get you to buy. They make a lot of their money on the financing - not on the actual solar panels. People sign documents that add liens and second mortgages to their homes to pay for the cost of the panels and installation. The payback on the prices is not simply a few years - it may be 20 years. Technology is changing all the time and your solar panels may be out of date many years before you have finished paying for them. It's more complicated in Florida because of the hurricanes. Sometimes installing the panels on your roof voids the roof warranty.

The solar panel sales people get homeowners hyped up with how much electricity they are going to generate and how they are going to have zero electric bills. Does that ever really happen?

Our state statutes still allow HOAs to regulate placement of panels within certain guidelines. Our community says you can't do front of the roof and can do back and one side. Until we get sued, we will follow the statute and continue to not allow the panels on the front of the house. We successfully settled a case (lots of letter from attornies, didn't get to a case filed) with homeowners who were denied placement on the front of their house and started to do it anyway. The solar company ended up buying them new roof tiles for the front of their home.

I'm all for alternative energy and if you want to invest in solar for your home then that's great. But people who live in an HOA shouldn't be allowed to do anything they want.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LoriM15 on 02/06/2023 7:51 AM
I'm personally disappointed by this ruling. I know that everyone is pro solar and in theory it's a great thing to produce your own energy using your roof. Especially here in Florida where we have lots of sunshine.

Panels on the front of the roof are just plain ugly. Our community was built so all the houses have the same style, but many different types and floor plans. We are still trying, 20 years later, to keep things in the same style but moving on with the times. But then you put those ugly black panels all over the front of the roof and it just looks like crap. Nobody can tell me it improves the look of the house.

That's just cosmetic and probably seems silly. But my real issue is that the solar panel industry is so unregulated. Many of the companies are scams and will tell you anything to get you to buy. They make a lot of their money on the financing - not on the actual solar panels. People sign documents that add liens and second mortgages to their homes to pay for the cost of the panels and installation. The payback on the prices is not simply a few years - it may be 20 years. Technology is changing all the time and your solar panels may be out of date many years before you have finished paying for them. It's more complicated in Florida because of the hurricanes. Sometimes installing the panels on your roof voids the roof warranty.

The solar panel sales people get homeowners hyped up with how much electricity they are going to generate and how they are going to have zero electric bills. Does that ever really happen?

Our state statutes still allow HOAs to regulate placement of panels within certain guidelines. Our community says you can't do front of the roof and can do back and one side. Until we get sued, we will follow the statute and continue to not allow the panels on the front of the house. We successfully settled a case (lots of letter from attornies, didn't get to a case filed) with homeowners who were denied placement on the front of their house and started to do it anyway. The solar company ended up buying them new roof tiles for the front of their home.

I'm all for alternative energy and if you want to invest in solar for your home then that's great. But people who live in an HOA shouldn't be allowed to do anything they want.

Well said.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I suspect that solar panels may look ugly because we haven't grown up with them. If they'd been the norm since we were children, "naked" roofs may be viewed as ugly instead. And there are options instead of the panels, such as photovoltaic shingles and windows, that will probably become more effective and available as the technology matures.

In general, if I'm forced to choose between aesthetics and functionality, I go with functionality. And solar doesn't just benefit the homeowner who installs it. It also takes some load off the grid. I expect that rolling blackouts will become more and more common along with increasing frequency of extreme weather events - and they will occur just when we need energy the most. For instance, during the Christmas "bomb cyclone", people were asked to turn down their heat because of fears of the grid going down - and it even happened in the Carolinas, not just here in the Great Frozen North where we're used to such things. Having enough people with solar installations may make the difference between keeping the heat and air conditioning on and doing without. And if worse comes to worst and the grid does go down, the folks with solar panels will be helping their grid-dependent neighbors with shelter and cooked food.

In addition to allowing solar installations, HOAs and COAs are going to need to reconsider other things that are mostly for looks, such as irrigation systems, fountains and pools, and lawns. People seem to love their lawns, and CC&Rs often require homeowners to take care of theirs. But lawns need water and lots of it. People who live in states served by the Colorado River are going to have to get serious like, right now. Xeriscaping may also appear ugly to those who are used to lush, green, golf course lawns, but if you have to chose between your lawn and having enough water to drink and bath...?

So I think it's a good thing if community associations are forced to reconsider some of their covenants and restrictions, and decide if they make sense in our current reality or if they're a remnant from a "reality" that maybe never existed and was mostly wishful thinking.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LoriM15 on 02/06/2023 7:51 AM
I'm personally disappointed by this ruling. I know that everyone is pro solar and in theory it's a great thing to produce your own energy using your roof. Especially here in Florida where we have lots of sunshine.

Panels on the front of the roof are just plain ugly. Our community was built so all the houses have the same style, but many different types and floor plans. We are still trying, 20 years later, to keep things in the same style but moving on with the times. But then you put those ugly black panels all over the front of the roof and it just looks like crap. Nobody can tell me it improves the look of the house.

That's just cosmetic and probably seems silly. But my real issue is that the solar panel industry is so unregulated. Many of the companies are scams and will tell you anything to get you to buy. They make a lot of their money on the financing - not on the actual solar panels. People sign documents that add liens and second mortgages to their homes to pay for the cost of the panels and installation. The payback on the prices is not simply a few years - it may be 20 years. Technology is changing all the time and your solar panels may be out of date many years before you have finished paying for them. It's more complicated in Florida because of the hurricanes. Sometimes installing the panels on your roof voids the roof warranty.

The solar panel sales people get homeowners hyped up with how much electricity they are going to generate and how they are going to have zero electric bills. Does that ever really happen?

Our state statutes still allow HOAs to regulate placement of panels within certain guidelines. Our community says you can't do front of the roof and can do back and one side. Until we get sued, we will follow the statute and continue to not allow the panels on the front of the house. We successfully settled a case (lots of letter from attornies, didn't get to a case filed) with homeowners who were denied placement on the front of their house and started to do it anyway. The solar company ended up buying them new roof tiles for the front of their home.

I'm all for alternative energy and if you want to invest in solar for your home then that's great. But people who live in an HOA shouldn't be allowed to do anything they want.

Have you even read the Florida law? If the front of a house faces due south, by law, the owner can place the panels there because any East or West side woudl be 90 degrees which is more than the 45 degrees the law specifies. If a homes walls are exactly 45 degrees from due south then the HOA could theoretically tell the Home owner to put all the panels on the east or west side. but the real kicker is any orientation other than due south will impair the effective operation of solar panels, so technically the HOA is screwed unless it has the CiA's lawyers pushing a false interpretation of the law.

You can't claim you are all for alternative energy and also at the same time be on an HOA board that effectively is breaking the Solar rights act of Florida. You are against clean energy because you dont' like the way it looks which is lame.

A deed restriction, covenant, declaration, or similar binding agreement may not prohibit or have the effect of prohibiting solar collectors, clotheslines, or other energy devices based on renewable resources from being installed on buildings erected on the lots or parcels covered by the deed restriction, covenant, declaration, or binding agreement. A property owner may not be denied permission to install solar collectors or other energy devices by any entity granted the power or right in any deed restriction, covenant, declaration, or similar binding agreement to approve, forbid, control, or direct alteration of property with respect to residential dwellings and within the boundaries of a condominium unit. Such entity may determine the specific location where solar collectors may be installed on the roof within an orientation to the south or within 45° east or west of due south if such determination does not impair the effective operation of the solar collectors.

vis ta vie
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
I do agree the solar sales industry is full of liars and scammers, more so than other in home sales jobs, but not by much and most other in home salesmen don't have you sign a 20 to 30 year predatory loan where it's claimed to be a low 2% interest, but doesnt' tell you there are loan origination fees that make the effective apr more like 10%.

vis ta vie
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LoriM15 on 02/06/2023 7:51 AM
Until we get sued, we will follow the statute and continue to not allow the panels on the front of the house.

typical, HOA does what it wants until it gets sued for breaking the law.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0100-0199/0163/Sections/0163.04.html
florida law doesnt' allow an HOA to block solar panels from the front of the house, when it is facing south. Unless your neighbor hood has homes facing entirely the same way, there is boudn to be a house who's front faces south.

vis ta vie
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
That works both ways – some people forget or choose to ignore they’re in a HOA, which means there are regulations they’re legally obligated to follow. I agree some HOA boards do whatever, but they don’t fall out of the sky – HOA boards are made up of HOMEOWNERS. If you don’t like their approach, you can run against them – and yes, I know that’s easier said than done in some communities because some boards are power-hungry and will push back and/or everyone else says “meh” and does nothing. When HOA boards “break the law”, maybe the reason for that is that the other homeowners didn’t give a damn and let it happen – until they had to. Thousands of dollars in legal bills or a special assessment to pay for years of underfunding reservices in the name of keeping assessments “low” will do that.

In the meantime, why is it so bloody difficult for some people to read the documents and ask a few questions before doing whatever because “it’s MY HOUSE?” It’s just like my mother said – the best way to keep some people ignorant is by writing down the information and handing it to them because they’ll never read it. This has been a good conversation because I learned some things about solar panels that I wasn’t aware of, and I suspect others feel the same. Now they’ll have a general idea of how they might respond if this comes up in their community – by doing a little research, they might head off years of lawsuits, thereby funding the attorney's college fund for their kids and grandkids (or retirement).

This is not to say I’m automatically on the board’s side, but really, what in the hell did the homeowner think would happen if he went ahead and started installing the panels without permission? People also forget that what flies in Florida, or Texas, or California or wherever you live doesn’t necessarily apply all over the USA. Some states are further ahead on this issue than others, which is why it would be nice for people to slow down and think a moment.

I mentioned earlier that our state passed a law last year on this issue – here, a homeowner (or however many are interested) must submit a petition to allow panels IF the bylaws specifically prohibit or restrict them, or the board denied the request. They also have to provide detailed information about the project – the home’s location, color of the system, where the panels will be located on the roof, screening, etc. There are also parameters that have to be met regarding safety, being flush with the roof, warranties, etc. The homeowner has to get the lesser of 65% of his/her neighbors or whatever’s required in the bylaws to pull this off and then the board MUST sign off on the project.

I like what one expert said from an article on the subject – it doesn’t take authority away from the board, but residents do have an option to pursue – the majority of the people living in the community have to support the project. If the homeowner really wants this, he/she can do the work to make it happen.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Why are we talking about solar panels? Did someone posting here need advice or has an issue with solar panels? Or is this just a discussion to bad mouth HOAs because someone wants to keep bringing up examples of others bad HOA issues?

Former HOA President
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WendyM5 on 02/06/2023 9:28 AM
Posted By LoriM15 on 02/06/2023 7:51 AM
Until we get sued, we will follow the statute and continue to not allow the panels on the front of the house.


typical, HOA does what it wants until it gets sued for breaking the law.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0100-0199/0163/Sections/0163.04.html
florida law doesnt' allow an HOA to block solar panels from the front of the house, when it is facing south. Unless your neighbor hood has homes facing entirely the same way, there is boudn to be a house who's front faces south.
I too looked at the Florida statute and am thinking the same thing. It seems a fact that these statutes, in whatever state, were written to make it hard for boards to say no to solar. I think boards need to get into the mindset that the appearance of the installation largely has to be set aside.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 02/06/2023 10:55 AM
Why are we talking about solar panels? Did someone posting here need advice or has an issue with solar panels? Or is this just a discussion to bad mouth HOAs because someone wants to keep bringing up examples of others bad HOA issues?

new laws and how they effect HOA's as well as a court's ruling on laws have long been a staple of this forum.

If the HOA wins a court case you'd be all for discussing it. but in this example the HOA lost so now you are complaining?

that's not how it works. the discussion has merit regardless of who wins in court.

vis ta vie
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 02/06/2023 10:34 AM
There are also parameters that have to be met regarding safety, being flush with the roof, warranties, etc. The homeowner has to get the lesser of 65% of his/her neighbors or whatever’s required in the bylaws to pull this off and then the board MUST sign off on the project.

flush panels dont' make them any safer, they make them hotter which decreases performance. gettting 2/3rd of owners to change CCR is a pretty common percentage so I dont really understand why the Indiana legislature even made up the law, seems like it doesnt do much.

vis ta vie
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 02/06/2023 10:55 AM
Why are we talking about solar panels? Did someone posting here need advice or has an issue with solar panels? Or is this just a discussion to bad mouth HOAs because someone wants to keep bringing up examples of others bad HOA issues?

Oh, I think it's interesting. The times they are a-changin' and HOAs need to change with them. Otherwise "reasonable" CC&Rs may cease to be reasonable and may put unnecessary burdens on everyone. Boards will have to deal with this stuff.

Unfortunately, CC&Rs are usually drafted using boilerplate to make sure all the essential items and proper wording are in them. Those doing the drafting may not be thinking too hard about the rationale behind some of the provisions. We find out when homeowners start fighting over them. HOAs need to meet the homeowners where they actually are, or risk having unnecessary and expensive legal fights.

This particular lawsuit also involved issues that have nothing to do with solar energy and that we've discussed in the past - for example, the maybe questionable authority of an unelected ACC to issue binding rulings. One of the dissenting judges specifically cited that in his opinion: "Because a decision of the Architectural Review Committee is not a 'deed restriction, covenant, or similar binding agreement' under N.C.G.S. § 22B-20, I respectfully dissent."

When you consider the wider issues, this discussion is relevant to things that can happen in any community and is worth discussing. I don't believe that the case supports the "awful HOAs" narrative at all. Some of the judges agreed with the HOA! Given that the decision was based on some pretty nitpicky legalese and had to go up to the state's Supreme Court to sort out, what I think this really demonstrates is that being on an HOA board is freakin' hard.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
From the OP:

The second exception is even more difficult to quantify. It allows an Association to prohibit a solar installation if that
prohibition does not “have the effect of preventing the reasonable use of a solar collector.” Here, the Court held that the association’s decision to deny the solar panels on the front roof did have the effect of preventing the reasonable use of a solar collector and granted summary judgment in the homeowners’ favor.

This is how I understand it. While an HOA can control location they cannot say no to any and every location especially when the best location is on the front of a home.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
It wasn't that long ago that similar discussions were being had about satellite dishes.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
States vary widely about solar and HOAs. In CA, the law even permits solar on condo common area roofs with many caveats. Our HOA attorney and, I should think most in states that permit them, already have a template and sample ARC Guidelines, etc.

Anyone here who is interested needs to learn about their own state and municipality.

(My spouse & I installed solar panels on our detached home's roof in about 1975 for hot water including our redwood hot tub. Of course, it was redwood--this is in Santa Cruz CA & the panels still function)
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 02/07/2023 12:39 PM
It wasn't that long ago that similar discussions were being had about satellite dishes.


I remember that fondly. I was working for a retailer that started selling them. I visited our US Senator's office a couple of times to get PRB-1 passed.

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