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LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025
Posted:
Hi, I have a quick question.
Our annual meeting is coming up and many of the votes will be proxy votes.
I have been researching and I believe proxies can be given by an owner to another owner to vote on their behalf. Last year the accounting manager, who mails out annual election notices on behalf of the association, specifically included a message that said if owners could not be present in person they can fax or mail their proxies to the accounting office.

My problem with this is that the proxies are written in a way that confuses a lot of people. They are unnecessarily wordy and use legalese. From experience, many of the proxy assignment spaces are filled out with the actual owners name, instead of the designated proxy. At the end of the proxy assignment , there is a clause that says if the proxy assignment is left blank or does not designate a proxy holder, the accountant will present the proxies to the current board and they will vote the proxies.

Obviously, this could easily be abused.

Can a third party (biased towards incumbents) accounting company include in the annual notice, instructions that instruct the owner to send their proxies into his office if they cannot attend in person or are not able to physically give their proxy to another owner.
My question is , aren't proxies supposed to be given to another owner to present at the annaul meeting .
That's how it's always been done. Then, at the annaul meeting and election, present owners would turn in the proxies they held for ballots.

Our declaration says the voting must be allowed in person and either by proxy or absentee ballot.

We don't offer both.

Am I wrong to request that the accounting agent not request owners send proxies to his office.

any advice on how to proceed would be helpful.

Update.. our new manager is awesome. He's been here almost 6 months. The elections will have 6 seats up for election and we have 11 people running. 9 of which are residents!
The former acting manager who was an owner and a board member is no long involved in day to day operations. He made my life a living hell. The new manager and I get along very well. He knows how to manage the operations and maintenance is finally getting done.

JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344
Posted:

Is the proxy a "general" proxy form or "directed" proxy form? Or both?

I didn't know there was such a thing as a "directed" proxy until I joined this forum. Directed proxies are similar to an absentee ballot.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
https://altitude.law/resources/newsletter/written-ballot-or-proxy-whats-the-difference/

the best thing for your HOA is to switch to absentee voting or online voting. proxies are easily abused and the clause that if they are filled out incorrectly they automatically go to a board members.

What is to stop you from mailing out absentee ballots to everyone? do the bylaws state the absentee ballots must be mailed by the board? That's rhetorical, but you can certainly propose for you to do that and see what the board says. Sometimes the threat of action is enough to get people to change thier procedures.

laws regarding this are covered by this website.

https://guides.sll.texas.gov/property-owners-associations/meetings-voting
Ballots
Texas law requires written ballots that are signed by the voting member for the following votes:

Votes cast outside of a meeting
Election or removal of board members
Adoptions or amendments of dedicatory instruments such as bylaws or restrictive covenants
Adoptions or increases of assessments
Under Texas law, electronic ballots qualify as written and signed.

Property owners' associations may adopt rules to allow members to vote by secret ballot, but they must include provisions that prevent a member from casting more votes than they are allotted and that all of their votes are counted.

Section 209.058 of the Texas Property Code
This section requires written and signed ballots for some votes by property owners' associations. It also permits associations to allow their members to vote by secret ballot.
Absentee Ballots
Texas law requires property owners' associations to allow members to vote by absentee ballot or proxy. Please note that a vote cast in person supersedes an absentee ballot — if the member decides to attend a meeting to vote in person, their absentee ballot may not be counted.

Absentee ballots handed out by a property owners' association must contain specific information, including:

Each proposed action and the opportunity to vote for or against each action
Instructions for how and where to submit a completed ballot
Language required by law regarding the member's inability to participate in and vote on any amendments to the proposals raised at the meeting
Section 209.00592 of the Texas Property Code
This section describes methods of voting and the use of absentee ballots.

vis ta vie
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
If it's so confusing, why hasn't your board already had the association attorney draft the thing? Before putting it into use, have a few homeowners review it to see if it's easy to understand - if not, revise those areas. You don't say how soon your meeting is, but if time's moving (e.g. it's in the next two weeks), make this a project for next year - starting with polling homeowners to see if they've had issues with the wording of the proxy. You may have a simple fix - or there are homeowners who are too lazy to read the thing (if they want it to count, they'll make the time to do so).

I really think communities make this harder than it should be - maybe you should just use the proxy to establish quorum and nothing else.

Here's how my community does proxies - you can designate someone to show up at the meeting (the person doesn't have to be an owner) and vote on your behalf (otherwise the board president will do it). We also allow people to use the proxy to nominate themselves or someone else to run for a spot, although I've never seen that happen. The proxies are mailed to the property manager who puts them in a box and doesn't open them - the envelopes are opened at the meeting and counted. The total's added to the number of homeowners who show up, and if that number is equal to or greater than the percentage required in the documents to hold the annual meeting, we have the meeting. If there's no quorum (like last year), there's no election and the current board continues to serve until they step down or are voted out. If you turned in a proxy, but later decide to attend the meeting, the proxy's canceled and you cast your vote as usual. I've been in the community over 15 years and fortunately, we've never had a problem.

All of that said, it may be easier for you to have the proxy establish a quorum and/or designate someone to SHOW UP at the meeting to cast a vote on the homeowner's behalf. Toss in an absentee ballot and the owner can opt to send that instead, although it would be easier to send both because you need to establish quorum before anything happens. This really shouldn't be as difficult as you make it sound.

As for the accounting company, why do you think a third-party accounting company would be biased toward incumbents? Why would they care - all they're hired to do is to count the proxies and perhaps review them against the owner records to ensure the person signing it is actually a member in good standing. Nonetheless, if that's the case, look for another company to do the work or designate a few homeowners who aren't running and are in good standing to count the things in front of everyone. Then get a PO box and have the proxies and ballots sent there. On the day of the meeting, the property manager (or two or three people you trust) can retrieve them and bring them directly to the clubhouse or wherever you're having the meeting.


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LaskaS on 02/02/2023 12:35 AM
the proxies are written in a way that confuses a lot of people. They are unnecessarily wordy and use legalese. From experience, many of the proxy assignment spaces are filled out with the actual owners name, instead of the designated proxy. At the end of the proxy assignment , there is a clause that says if the proxy assignment is left blank or does not designate a proxy holder, the accountant will present the proxies to the current board and they will vote the proxies.

Obviously, this could easily be abused.

Can a third party (biased towards incumbents) accounting company include in the annual notice, instructions that instruct the owner to send their proxies into his office if they cannot attend in person or are not able to physically give their proxy to another owner.
My question is , aren't proxies supposed to be given to another owner to present at the annaul meeting .
That's how it's always been done. Then, at the annual meeting and election, present owners would turn in the proxies they held for ballots.

Am I wrong to request that the accounting agent not request owners send proxies to his office.
In my experience most owners typically neither understand nor use correctly the word "proxy." You actually mis-use it above in several places.

I suspect in this case, much of what you call "legalese" is more likely wording unique to corporations; is necessary; and will require the owner to ask questions. It's on him or her if he/she does not.

I think the biggest concern might be the instructions to owners to send the proxy forms (not "proxies") to the accounting company office.

Ideally the instructions should say that the owner must either give the proxy to someone they know will attend the meeting, or they may assign the board to be their proxy.

I think you should change your request to what I describe above and maybe what certain others here suggest?

I am glad you have a new manager. But hey now: You're not giving him directions that should come from the board, are you? You're past this, right? So I hope.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Also I agree with SheliaH about one important advantage of directions to send in the proxy forms, where the proxy is assigned to the board: It helps ensure quorum is met.

If people do not care enough to research the candidates and just choose to assign the board to be their proxy, that's on your group of candidates and supporters to knock on doors (if allowed) and otherwise lawfully contact owners to tell them to assign someone from your group as their proxy instead.
BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217
Posted:
Laska

Please refresh my memory, you are a Chapter 81 or Chapter 82 condominium association, are you not

Thanks
BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821
Posted:
Owners should not sign the proxy if they don’t understand it.

The “legalese” is probably required.

I used to send out line by line instructions with proxies, including samples of correctly and incorrectly filled out ones. I’d still get proxies returned blank or with other errors. What worked best in terms of preventing errors was to have owners physically fill it out in front of me, so I could explain it verbally, ask if they understood what they were signing, and give them a new one if they made mistakes.
LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025
Posted:
Bill we are chapter 81.

I know people should not signa proxy unless they understand it.
But people shouldn't do lots of things. I'm trying to ensure that as many owners who take the time to fill out a proxy will not have their proxy assigned to the current board as a default.

The owner of the firm that handles our accounting is very adept at saying just enough to have plausible deniability should he ever be questioned.

I don't think he should be instructing anyone to send their proxies in to his office.

Additional info.

I actually got a chance to see the annaul election announcement proxy that the accounting company was sending out to all owners on the association behalf.

It is literally a blank proxy with no place to indicate candidates. It's a sign this and send them to our office. If no proxy is appointed, the proxies will be given to the current board to vote on your behalf.

This is not a up down vote. This is 11 people running for 6 seats. The current board and the owner of the accounting company are well aware that if the resident candidates win, the exisiting board will no longer be in control.

I don't think anyone would actually forge votes, I do think that the accounting company owner would try to obstruct full participation from all owners.
LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025
Posted:
I will start collecting proxies soon. I am running, but i don't care if i get on the board or not. I honestly do not want to be on the board unless all of the 6 seats up for election are filled by residents owners that don't currently serve on the board.

The property manager has given me tons of great advice. He also appreciates me. I know a lot of the history of the property, what has and hasn't been done. Being able to fill him in on the details has allowed him to avoid the pitfalls that would have occurred had he not had someone fill him in. The previous acting property manager(board member) didn't fill him in on anything.

Its clear to everyone involved , including some current board members, that the person in question did not want to give up the job of property manager. The person went out of his way to tell everyone that he couldn't wait to leave, all the while, throwing away resumes turned into the office, throwing up road block after road block to actually move forward with interviewing and hiring a property manager.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LaskaS on 02/02/2023 7:58 PM
It is literally a blank proxy with no place to indicate candidates.
I think it is pretty common for proxy forms // not // to list candidates. If the proxy form lists candidates, then the proxy form may become a "directed proxy form." This can be problematic. For example, if the bylaws require calling for nominations from the floor, and a nomination occurs from the floor, then this may leave the proxy (meaning the person assigned to vote on behalf of someone else) in a quandary and raise legal issues in general.
BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217
Posted:
The proxy forms we use in Texas contain the following Options:

Option 1: A Proxy for the Purpose of Attaining Quorum Only. No Voting Rights are Assigned.

Option 2: A Proxy assigning the voting rights of an Owner to a specific someone (Generally, the President of the Association or another Officer or Director if the President is unable to attend or what have you)

Option 3: A proxy assigning the voting rights of an Owner to a specific someone (a blank line is included on the form at this point for the person executing the proxy to enter the name of the person assigned the voting rights of the Owner). There is language associated with this option regarding positive identification of the proxy holder if he or she is not known to the Board, PM, or others such as employees of the MC assisting with the election.

The owner executing the Proxy must then enter their name, association address, and date on the Proxy. It must then be returned to the Association, generally to the PM although other methods are acceptable, such as giving it to the person named in Option 2 or 3.

The names of candidates are not included on the proxy.

The proxy does not contain language regarding a "Directed Proxy". If the owner so desires, he or she may submit an Absentee Ballot which accomplishes that purpose.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
As we allow nominations from the floor, we do not know who is running until voting time at the Annual Meeting. We do send out a proxy naming the BOD as the proxy voter unless other wise said.
BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217
Posted:
One other point, for those of you who may not be familiar with the Texas Property Code--and this is why I asked Laska to refresh my memory about her association, which is a condominium:

Texas Condominiums are governed by Chapter 81 or Chapter 82 of the Property Code, depending on the date of formation (pre or post January 1, 1994) although an older (Chapter 81 association) may elect to be governed by Chapter 82, which is also known as the Texas Uniform Condominium Act or TUCA.

However, the Texas Legislature has modified the property code over the years; some portions of Chapter 82 are specifically designated in legislation as being applicable to Chapter 81 condominium associations as well. The Legislature is in session this year, those of us responsible for managing associations must pay attention to what comes out of Austin in May/June.

Traditional Homeowners Associations are governed by Section 209 of the Texas Property Code. Although there are some similarities between portions of TPC 209 and Chapters 81 and/or Chapter 82, there is no 'cross-governance', i.e., language in Section 209 may never be applied to a Chapter 81 or Chapter 82 condominium association or vice-versa.

As I understand it, there are a few situations in the state in which associations are governed by some other documents. I am not familiar with those situations, perhaps someone else is.

Finally, if looking at Texas association documents, do not be misled into thinking you are looking at the documents of a traditional HOA if the name of the Association is "Example Street Homeowners Association, Inc." The documents of the Association must stipulate under which section of the property code the association has been formed, regardless of the name.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillH10 on 02/03/2023 9:34 AM
Finally, if looking at Texas association documents, do not be misled into thinking you are looking at the documents of a traditional HOA if the name of the Association is "Example Street Homeowners Association, Inc." The documents of the Association must stipulate under which section of the property code the association has been formed, regardless of the name.
I do not see how you can claim this. For one, TPC 209.003 lists when it applies to a subdivision. None of the requirements require that the governing documents refer to TPC 209. Notice how TPC 209.003 (e) even alludes to how TPC 209 can apply to subdivisions existing pre-1974.

Texas Property Code Chapter 209 became effective in 2002. I would think Texas HOAs that mandated assessments existed for some years before 2002. In 2002, it appears to me that, per TPC 209.003, suddenly they became subject to TPC 209.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Correction: Suddenly // many // became subject to TPC 209.
BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217
Posted:
We have condominium clients formed under Chapters 81 and 82 which are named XXX Homeowner's Association, Inc.

They are not formed under TPC 209.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BillH10 on 02/03/2023 10:01 AM
We have condominium clients formed under Chapters 81 and 82 which are named XXX Homeowner's Association, Inc.

They are not formed under TPC 209.
Correct, and as TPC 209 itself states. But you implied, for one, that all non-condo subdivisions having covenants that do not state the subdivision is subject to TPC 209 are not subject to TPC 209. Per what TPC 209.003 says, these subdivisions might very well be subject to TPC 209.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Bill,

I would give it up, as Augustin is the expert in all things HOA. Experience in your own state has no value.
BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217
Posted:
Thanks Max, advice accepted and implemented.
LaskaS (Texas)
Posts: 1,025
Posted:
billh thanks for the great explanation. I think it is very succint yet with enough detail to allow a reader to understand the naunces of texas property code.

209 vs 82 vs 81
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC73 on 02/02/2023 3:38 AM

Is the proxy a "general" proxy form or "directed" proxy form? Or both?

I didn't know there was such a thing as a "directed" proxy until I joined this forum. Directed proxies are similar to an absentee ballot.

A proxy can be both. One section ordering the holder to vote a specific way. Another section saying except for the above section, the holder can vote as they wish.

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