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RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
In case state would matter: Texas

If a proxy stated the wrong date for the AGM several times including on the proxy grantor's signature block - example:

"I, the undersigned, do herby assign my proxy for the February 1, 2023, Annual General Meeting of the members of "Association name.""

and right before the signature block

"Whose address isblank for the proxy grantee's address), to vote the number of votes the undersigned would be entitled to vote if personally present at the February 1, 2023 Annual General Meeting of the members."

but the AGM is being held on February 2, 2023, how successful would a legal challenge to invalidate those proxies be?
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Please note: I mean a legal challenge AFTER the meeting, challenging vote results and possibly meeting the quorum requirement, not challenging before the meeting. How successful?
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
I estimate a legal challenge is more likely than not to fail. This is because the AGM is presumably well-advertised and noticed to be on February 2, 2023. The HOA would start the battle by declaring the date error on the proxy is not "material."
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
With no legal background whatsoever, I'd say it'd fail UNLESS that one vote would change the outcome the election. Or if it meant quorum was not met so the election results were meaningless.
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 01/27/2023 2:31 PM
With no legal background whatsoever, I'd say it'd fail UNLESS that one vote would change the outcome the election. Or if it meant quorum was not met so the election results were meaningless.

It is the Board supplied proxy form, which all people, who use a proxy use. Proxy vote will probably be 40 to 60% of total membership. In the past it was 60% but more have been attending in recent years. So it would likely affect every vote.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
how the heck do HOA boards get members to return that form? Seriously what's in it for them? Do they write some letter saying how they need it filled out so the HOA BOD can fullfil their duties??? I just can't get my head around why anyone would want to sign that?!

vis ta vie
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I agree with Kerry and Ellen.

Most of us aren't attorneys and the only way anyone will know for certain is to file the lawsuit and see what happens. As Ellen noted everyone knows the meeting and elections are on Feb 2 - unless this throws an election all over the place, I don't see where this matters. If you're that concerned, encourage those who returned it to show up and cast their vote in person, thus canceling the proxy.

Are you going to quibble over thus, even if tye board says "folks, we apologize for the typooo on the proxy- the date IS Feb. 2, not Feb. 1. We're going to honor the proxies and for those of you who sent it in and now wish to cancel it and vote in person, that's OK too."

Just wait until Feb 2 and see what happens.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
You should check corporate statutes.

Typically, a proxy is good for 11 months after the date signed unless an expiration date is on the form.

Again, check your applicable corporate statutes to be sure.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Yikes, I misunderstood the proxy form & thought that a proxy grantor wrote in the wrong date.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WendyM5 on 01/27/2023 4:26 PM
I just can't get my head around why anyone would want to sign that?!

Anyone who is unable or unwilling to attend the meeting but desire to have their vote counted would be the likely ones who return proxies.

For me, I attended the annual meeting the first year I purchased the house. Having listened to everyone complain about trash cans not being put away, owners not picking up after their pets and cars going too fast on the county owned roads, I simply didn't want to hear anymore. This association has no common area and no amenities. Our assessments are a fixed amount per the covenants. however, having served on the board of my previous association, I understand the frustration of having members simply too darn lazy to fill out a form, sign it and send it back. So I send my proxy form and enjoy my afternoon (vs. attending the meeting and listen to the same complaints).
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 01/27/2023 4:52 PM
Yikes, I misunderstood the proxy form & thought that a proxy grantor wrote in the wrong date.

Board supplied proxy, and it might have another problem. It is two parts of the same form. On the top part is an absentee ballot, (and from my recollection it would be the first absentee ballot ever used by the Association) and the bottom part is the Proxy part.

By the way, the bottom part, the proxy is a "general" vs a "directed" proxy. Since the absentee ballot part is for a specific election vote and the bottom proxy part is a general proxy and therefore would cover a vote for anything, including the election vote, I would think those two parts should be on two different documents each, not both on the same form, but that is only my assumption.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 01/27/2023 5:05 PM
Posted By WendyM5 on 01/27/2023 4:26 PM
I just can't get my head around why anyone would want to sign that?!


Anyone who is unable or unwilling to attend the meeting but desire to have their vote counted would be the likely ones who return proxies.

For me, I attended the annual meeting the first year I purchased the house. Having listened to everyone complain about trash cans not being put away, owners not picking up after their pets and cars going too fast on the county owned roads, I simply didn't want to hear anymore. This association has no common area and no amenities. Our assessments are a fixed amount per the covenants. however, having served on the board of my previous association, I understand the frustration of having members simply too darn lazy to fill out a form, sign it and send it back. So I send my proxy form and enjoy my afternoon (vs. attending the meeting and listen to the same complaints).

Thanks for the reply, but I still dont' get it. You could of enjoyed your evening and saved 3 minutes by not filling out the form. PLUS I thought a proxy allows for the BOD to decide how to vote on your behalf. Did your proxy have a list of items for you to vote upon?

vis ta vie
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Wendy,

In my last association, I introduced directed proxies. To my knowledge, they are still being used today.

In my current Association, they are already using directed proxies.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I think the main problem with proxies is they're badly written or people simply don't bother reading them, so you run into problems like screwed up dates, unauthorized people signing them and so on.

If you're going to use them I think you start with asking what is the primary purpose for you community. In my community, it's really about establishing quorum to hold the meeting in tge first place. I've never seen any where people nominate themselves or someone else to run for a seat on the board, although we can also use our proxy for that.

The proxy also says if you don't designate anyone the president will vote on your behalf, but we haven't had anyone run fir a spot in years, do for tge last five years or so. (maybe longer) the board either continues because we didn't have a quorum (like last year) or someone makes a motion for electing the board by acclamation.

The date issue aside, I think Roger's board should probably review how effective proxies have been. What percentage of homeowners actually use them? Have there been lots of questions on how to use them - maybe a rewrite is in order, along with the secretary and association attorney reviewing it to ensure compliance with the documents and state law. You should be able to use tge same format every year and simply changing the dates.

As far as elections go, it might be easier to provide a separate ballot and state this should be used if you're certain you won't attend the meeting. If you decide to attend, you can still cancel the ballot and vote as usual. It really shouldn't be complicated.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Proxies can be easily misunderstood and they are often worded to confuse people. That said, rarely can change be brought about without their usage especially when the BOD writes the proxy to allow the BOD to cast them as they see fit. Doing such is how many BOD's stay in place.

Proxies are a good weapon when in the right hands.

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