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DeniseM7 (Minnesota)
Posts: 10
Posted:
We have a treasurer who is not a boad member. Our declarations allow it. I think she should be allowed to stay for executive sessions as she is a officer
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
The Board decides who may or may not attend executive session. I'd say that the Board may want her involved in contracts in formation (the Board might ask her: can we afford them?). As a non-board member, however, it seems to me, she has no right to be privy to personnel matters or owner disciplinary matters, potential litigation, owner payment plans. She has no vote either or any matter.

Are you on the Board?
DeniseM7 (Minnesota)
Posts: 10
Posted:
I am the president. I understand that she cannot vote. She is a former board member who sold property, she has been our treasurer for years as she is a CPA. Why would it matter if she is privy to personal matters as most of them are financial. Also our officers are insured.
MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 200
Posted:
On our Board, non-voting officers attend executive session.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MichaelT21 on 01/23/2023 12:00 PM
On our Board, non-voting officers attend executive session.

I agree this is the way to do it.
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Denise,
First, I usually always agree with John C on most topics. I have a different opinion on this one. As a past board member this person already knows many of the Confidential information in your HOA. She probably still has emails from her board days, and I see no harm in her hearing about collection issues or other Executive session items. In fact, she may be able to give valuable insight into some of the past contracts if she were able to be in the meeting. Obviously, the board would vote on any matters alone.

I kind of think of most ex-board members as allies who have fought in the same wars and understand the good and the bad of HOAs.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
All right, all right, y'all have convinced me. Mark IS agreeing with JohnC. I'm a little concerned that she's no longer an owner, though. Or did I read that wrong?

You do agree the decision is the board's, right Michelle?
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 01/23/2023 11:37 AM
The Board decides who may or may not attend executive session. I'd say that the Board may want her involved in contracts in formation (the Board might ask her: can we afford them?). As a non-board member, however, it seems to me, she has no right to be privy to personnel matters or owner disciplinary matters, potential litigation, owner payment plans. She has no vote either or any matter.

Are you on the Board?

Weren't you a "special" advisor officer who attended executive sessions AFTER you left as a Board member?
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Kerry,
You are another reason why this site is such a great place for HOAs to get information. You have the ability to listen too many sources and be willing to hold decision making till enough info is heard to make decisions.

One of my personal pet peeves with boards these days that use email to make decisions is they hear one side and quickly decide their opinion. The reasons why boards have 3. 5 or 7 members is so many opinions can be shared. When making decisions over email sometimes members check out after making the informal vote and do not hear all sides.

All points are not good ones but every once in a while, they do change minds.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I think that the decision will depend on what is being covered in the executive session, so no hard and fast rule. If the issue is something that the treasurer may have input into, then maybe yes. But otherwise, I'm not sure it's justified, especially if the treasurer is no longer a homeowner. Confidentiality is important in these sessions, the treasurer doesn't count toward quorum, so why are they needed?

I'm trying to think of an instance where the treasurer would have important information that the board doesn't also have, or where the decision related to this important information would have to be made immediately or wouldn't need to be moved into open session. So far I'm not coming up with anything. ????
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Cathy,
I can think of a few things that the Treasurer could help advise with. First would be about possible dues increases or contract increases. Second might be on foreclosure discussions regarding an owner that has been a bad payer in the past and has returned to collections.

In cases like this the person could be present for the topic and then leave the room for the vote if it takes place during the Exec Session.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeniseM7 on 01/23/2023 11:14 AM
We have a treasurer who is not a boad member. Our declarations allow it. I think she should be allowed to stay for executive sessions as she is a officer
As you have indicated elsewhere, your HOA is governed by the Minnesota Common Interest Ownership Act. The latter requires board meetings to be open to owners except where any of the following will be discussed:

"(1) personnel matters;

(2) pending or potential litigation, arbitration or other potentially adversarial proceedings, between unit owners, between the board or association and unit owners, or other matters in which any unit owner may have an adversarial interest, if the board determines that closing the meeting is necessary to discuss strategy or to otherwise protect the position of the board or association or the privacy of a unit owner or occupant of a unit; or

(3) criminal activity arising within the common interest community if the board determines that closing the meeting is necessary to protect the privacy of the victim or that opening the meeting would jeopardize investigation of the activity."

If the board closes a board meeting to discuss any of the above, then the treasurer should be permitted to attend only to the extent the treasurer has information to share or the board has questions for the treasurer.

By far for the greater part if this board is in executive sessions and discussing budgeting or how to spend money, and so the treasurer should be present, of course the meeting should be open to all owners.

Legal concerns concerning privacy are too large. Per statute and the covenants, the board, not the officers, have the final say on how the HOA operates.

Wanting to recognize the Treasurer as one of the "adults" on account of say past board service, and so "deserving" of special privileges, is also no basis for allowing attendance.

If this HOA wants to play loosey-goosey on this one, whatever. But I disagree about the treasurer being in attendance at every executive session simply because she is the treasurer.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkM19 on 01/24/2023 7:17 AM
Cathy,
I can think of a few things that the Treasurer could help advise with. First would be about possible dues increases or contract increases. Second might be on foreclosure discussions regarding an owner that has been a bad payer in the past and has returned to collections.

In cases like this the person could be present for the topic and then leave the room for the vote if it takes place during the Exec Session.

Things may be different in my community, but all board members would be fully informed about these items. The board discusses delinquencies in every board meeting and whether or not file liens or move to foreclosure (both of these require a board vote). And our community manager provides preliminary budget figures in October of every year, which are then discussed in open session. Any changes are made by the manager, presented to the board in November, and the final budget for the new year is approved then.

The only things I can think of where the treasurer may have something to present would be things like recommendations for changes to our investment options, or opinions on where the economy is going and how that may impact the association. But these things would all be addressed in open session since none require confidentiality.

Just as a general rule, we want our directors all to be informed about what is going on. An individual director or officer can resign without warning, or have a heart attack - we don't want to be scrambling as a result.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
With additional insights, I'm back to my original stance. She should attend ES when a knowledgeable treasurer's expertise & opinion is needed. I mentioned contracts in formation earlier. Others have mentioned other examples, e.g., many aspects of delinquencies and collections. Perhaps discussions of raises for vendors' individual onsite staffers, if any & how they fit the proposed budget.

But not attorney/board meetings, hearings with owners for violations of the rules, size of fines for those, evaluations of work performances of staff & the PM, if any. It's just none of her business especially since she's a non-owner.

Btw, I'm sensing there might be something else going on here between Denise & the board re: this topic.

I thought Max said he'd quit obsessing about me. Must be mistaken. Since the topic is non-directors officers, here's how our Board handled one case. I didn't seek reelection at the end of '21 but had been the main shepherd of our proposed restated CC&Rs. I'd also been secretary. The MC would soon send out ballots & our HOA attorney & I'd worked on a cover letter. The prez & I worked on a push in our newsletter. So there was still campaigning to do, ideas needed to get out the vote, advice to the Board on reaching absentee owners.

Our Bylaws permit the Board to appoint any officers they feel are needed. They appointed me as Assistant Secretary until such time as the ballots were tabulated, which turned out to be about 5 months later. I never attended executive session. I did, via the Board president, email with our attorney solely on this topic a couple of times. Even at open meetings, I did not sit at the directors table, but was asked to give a monthly report in the way committee chairs do.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
While a non-director treasurer will not have any voting rights on decisions a board might make, you should look at the description of a treasurer and how their financial position might have an impact on each of the areas an executive session might cover.

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