Unreasonable records request

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 200

Posted:

A homeowner has requested 3+ years of paperwork, including actual receipts for purchases bought by a Board member and later reimbursed and copies of all bids and signed contracts.

How do we say no to an unreasonable request such as this?

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Why do you feel it's unreasonable? Homeowners do have a right to request many association documents and they font have to give you a reason, although it does look like a fishing expedition. Is this your arch enemy and/or one of her pals doing the asking? You do know if you refuse, this may open another case of drama, don't you?

You could charge photocopying and mailing expenses for all this stuff, but you shouldn't pull a number out of your behind. If putting all this together will take some time you can factor that into the cost - which you will tell the homeowner about in advance.

Hopefully, you've already established a record retention policy that includes a schedule as to what records need to be kept forever vs. those that can be shredded after a certain time. If you don't have one, this should be a project for someone- documentation storage firm could help 6ou establish a schedule, along with the association attorney and master insurance company.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 200

Posted:

Our property manager is the one complaining. I guess they aren't great at pulling old records.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelT21 on 01/20/2023 9:59 AM
Our property manager is the one complaining. I guess they aren't great at pulling old records.

THEN find one that can!

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 200

Posted:

But yes, this is part of the effort of the arch critic to get me off of the Board. She has about 4 others on board with the effort, and they are conducting multiple investigations of my Board related activities. I have been accused of stealing, embezzlement, lying to homeowners, improper financial accounting, poor transparency, failing to follow roberts rules of order, and the like.

I'm exhausted from it and our property manager is starting to complain to me. I have worked with this property manager for 2 years and she has never complained until now, so I know that what is being asked is way out of the ordinary.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

What max said. And this is another your community needs a records policy, whether you remain on the board or not.

I know it's frustrating because you have worked hard, and these people are coming for you because they can (even if it doesn't make any sense). They probably want to see if you crack and leave on your own or have a major brain fart and mess something up that will persuade everyone else to vote you out.. s7ch us politics.

I will repeat what I said in another conversation- STOP MAJORING IN THE MINORS! You are letting 5 people out of 500 residents move inside your head - you may not be able to stop them,but you can control what you do. Right now it's a matter of you continuing to be effective despite the noise- let them keep posting and screaming, and see if it gets 5hem anywhere. If nothings happened so far, you're probably ok.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Find out what records your HOA really has. I have found people requesting "fantasy" documents that do not exist. They may still complain not given everything...

I am not sure a copy of original receipts is possible. Just photocopies or bank statements. They should be on the expense report anyways. I know that is where our checks were put on for record. Plus discussed in meeting notes.

I was accused of stealing the HOA records once myself. It was an excuse for the new board to paint me in a bad picture. The truth was the records never left the closet of the clubhouse. They were there every meeting. Found it funny that when I got summoned into court over a foreclosure matter, those records were in the lawyers hands... Mmm... Wonder how they got them if I stole them?

If you are up front and open about everything then you let the truth lie where it is to pick up. If you practice deceit and hide, then you have to search for the truth. No one had to search far or at all with me.

Former HOA President

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 200

Posted:

I am simply asking the property manager to hold off until we discuss this as a Board at our next meeting. 4 years of records is unreasonable, and if she is complaining, then it needs to be a Board decision.

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Stay on the Board but step down as President now. Problem solved and someone else can deal with it. The only caveat I have is can you deal with someone else being president and not you?

LayaS (Nebraska)
Posts: 249

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelT21 on 01/20/2023 10:40 AM
I am simply asking the property manager to hold off until we discuss this as a Board at our next meeting. 4 years of records is unreasonable, and if she is complaining, then it needs to be a Board decision.

Four years not really unreasonable. Hopefully your record keeping and storage makes it easy to pull records out. Michael, I don't think this is the job for you. It seems as if you can not separate yourself from the criticism. I commend your volunteer spirit and wanting to make things better for your community but at some point, just let it go. Life is too short for your mind to be in a constant state of turmoil. Either real or imagined. It's okay to not have a thick enough skin to let things roll off your back. I am the same way. That is why I would not make a good HOA President. I make a great worker bee and can make suggestions to improve processes but I would have trouble being very assertive and I take things too personally. Might this be you?

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 200

Posted:

I'm not quitting, so let's stop talking about that.

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LayaS on 01/20/2023 10:55 AM

Posted By MichaelT21 on 01/20/2023 10:40 AM
I am simply asking the property manager to hold off until we discuss this as a Board at our next meeting. 4 years of records is unreasonable, and if she is complaining, then it needs to be a Board decision.

Four years not really unreasonable. Hopefully your record keeping and storage makes it easy to pull records out. Michael, I don't think this is the job for you. It seems as if you can not separate yourself from the criticism. I commend your volunteer spirit and wanting to make things better for your community but at some point, just let it go. Life is too short for your mind to be in a constant state of turmoil. Either real or imagined. It's okay to not have a thick enough skin to let things roll off your back. I am the same way. That is why I would not make a good HOA President. I make a great worker bee and can make suggestions to improve processes but I would have trouble being very assertive and I take things too personally. Might this be you?

Well said and good for you being able to know your strengths and weaknesses. IMHO, this is one of the key personal characteristic of a good Board member.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelT21 on 01/20/2023 9:33 AM
A homeowner has requested 3+ years of paperwork, including actual receipts for purchases bought by a Board member and later reimbursed and copies of all bids and signed contracts.

How do we say no to an unreasonable request such as this?

Some of this may be reasonable and some of it is not.

Generally bids from all vendors aren't available to homeowners, only executed contracts. Vendors often make their bids confidential, so you can't legally disclose them, not even to homeowners (some of whom may be competitors of a vendor).

I agree with Sheila that this sounds like a fishing expedition.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Michael

Did you not set yourself up for this by personally paying a lot of association bills then getting reimbursed?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Make sure the board agrees on what is fair game and legal to release. Once established give it to the PM to follow. Delay the witch hunt till make that decision.

When I got reimbursed for HOA expenses it was agreed to beforehand. Unless it was an emergency purchase for clubhouse like paper products. When got to register it was on a separate receipt. That way it was not co mingled with my shopping. Lord knows no one needed to see what Tampons I was buying that month...

Former HOA President

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046

Posted:

I don't know what your state's requirements are but in Florida we don't need to provide anything. We do need to allow for inspecting and copying of association records. If HOA/PM copying equipment is used, a reasonable fee can be charged. Let the owner inspect the records and take pictures with their phone to their heart's content.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Look, Michael, your state statutes will tell you what records owners may inspect. It may even be in your Bylaws. Now, I know you don't like looking into state statutes because there seem to be 2 or 3 different ones that might apply to your HOA, although I believe I recall ElleN ruling out one.

CA statutes, for instance, only permit owners to inspect the past two years + the current year of receipts, invoices, financials, etc. As Cathy notes, owners may not inspect bids, only executed contracts. Receipts for items that w you were reimbursed for is not an unreasonable request. HOAs here also are not require to compile data. For instance, I'm not so sure the enemy could request, in writing of course, to compile and send all receipts and requests for reimbursement for items you purchased. Is not the board's approval to reimburse you in the minutes???? IF so, let the ex-prez go through all meeting minutes herself to find the amounts you were reimbursed.

So even if an HOA has a record retention policy, it does not mean that Owners have the right to inspect, say, the financials from 2018 in CA.

You do have an HOA attorney so I think you can get a quick written opinion from them about records the ex prez/lawyer may inspect. Your attorney probably has the items memorized.

I do not blame your part-time PM for getting upset because of all the extra work this entails beyond her contract with your HOA.

WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522

Posted:

Every state law I've read on records request doesn't say that four years is unreasonable or 1,000 pages is unreasonable

They all pretty much say you charge a nominal fee to make copies therefore I would just stop complaining and get it done

Some laws like Florida allow residents to come in with her cell phone and make copies of anything they want

vis ta vie

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 200

Posted:

I am curious if anyone thinks it is bad to have the Board make a decision on this at our next meeting? This is an unusual request and it seems like a Board decision to make.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Say, Wendy, I just cited CA law, which does limit what kind and how far back records can be inspected. Michael needs to know HIS state's law (WA).

Also, Micheals' HOA has no onsite office for a manager so records are kept in the PM's off site office. To drag out 1,000 page of files that the PM needed to review first is a huge talks and is, in fact unreasonable.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

I am an offsite manager and based on what Michael's homeowner is asking, I could pull 4 years in 10 minutes and have them emailed.

LayaS (Nebraska)
Posts: 249

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 01/20/2023 1:10 PM
Say, Wendy, I just cited CA law, which does limit what kind and how far back records can be inspected. Michael needs to know HIS state's law (WA).

Also, Micheals' HOA has no onsite office for a manager so records are kept in the PM's off site office. To drag out 1,000 page of files that the PM needed to review first is a huge talks and is, in fact unreasonable.

Every state has different laws about records requests. I am trying to imagine how large these files may be. If they are off-site, why can't this homeowner go to the cite and ask to view documents there at the office and take pictures of what she wants. If Idaho statutes allow this. That is on Michael to check the statutes. Aren't the records in some kind of order? If receipts are what the owner is looking for, can't the office clerk pull out the year and the file labeled receipts. Or however the files are organized. How is this causing much labor for the office manager. The work is on the owner going through the files. I think sometimes, the work necessary for an owner to look at files gets exaggerated. I am speaking from experience, when asking for HOA docs, the HOA dragged their feet and made me repeatedly ask for them. I think it was an attitude from the HOA that I was being a PITA and how dare I ask for something that by Iowa law, I was in my rights to get. Of course, I expected to pay for copies. It was a small HOA and did not have the amount of amenities that Michael's has. It's such an HOA specific request.

WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 01/20/2023 1:10 PM
Say, Wendy, I just cited CA law, which does limit what kind and how far back records can be inspected. Michael needs to know HIS state's law (WA).

Also, Micheals' HOA has no onsite office for a manager so records are kept in the PM's off site office. To drag out 1,000 page of files that the PM needed to review first is a huge talks and is, in fact unreasonable.

Well I'm betting his state law makes no reasonable test or other qualifier therefore irrelevant. And not something a bod should decide on

vis ta vie

LayaS (Nebraska)
Posts: 249

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaxB4 on 01/20/2023 1:44 PM
I am an offsite manager and based on what Michael's homeowner is asking, I could pull 4 years in 10 minutes and have them emailed.

Thank you for sharing that. I expected it to be an easier process than some try to make it out to be.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaxB4 on 01/20/2023 1:44 PM
I am an offsite manager and based on what Michael's homeowner is asking, I could pull 4 years in 10 minutes and have them emailed.

My association could do the same but not as fast. This is one of the main advantages of having and MC is this. 4 years of ours would be about 1000 pages.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I think that generally MichaelT has done hard work for his community and all owners have benefitted. But he is sometimes evasive here.

Michael, again: What does WA statute and/or your gov docs say about records inspection?

If you cannot or will not look that up, what does your HOA attorney say. I'm certain it's a question s/he can answer in 2 minutes over the phone.

Do not take this to the REST of the Board until you know where your HOA stands legally.

In addition, don't your open meeting minutes have a record of all of your requests for reimbursement and the Board's vote on your requests?

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 200

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 01/20/2023 4:41 PM
I think that generally MichaelT has done hard work for his community and all owners have benefitted. But he is sometimes evasive here.

Michael, again: What does WA statute and/or your gov docs say about records inspection?

If you cannot or will not look that up, what does your HOA attorney say. I'm certain it's a question s/he can answer in 2 minutes over the phone.

Do not take this to the REST of the Board until you know where your HOA stands legally.

In addition, don't your open meeting minutes have a record of all of your requests for reimbursement and the Board's vote on your requests?

Not trying to be evaise.

The law says:

"A member may inspect and copy the records described in subsection (2) of this section only if the:
(a) Member's demand is made in good faith and for a proper purpose;
(b) Member describes with reasonable particularity the purpose and the records the member desires to inspect;
(c) Member agrees in the form of a record to reasonable restrictions required by the board on the use or distribution of the records; and
(d) Records are directly connected with this purpose."

Per (a), I am not convinced that the demand is made in good faith or for a proper purpose.
Per (c), the Board needs to decide on reasonable restrictions for the use and distribution of records, which we have not done. Thus, I think we should discuss those restrictions and vote on them as a Board at our next meeting.

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 200

Posted:

With regards to meeting minutes, keep in mind that I was never secretary and have only been president for a portion of my term. The records request go back to when I was a newbie on the Board. I didn't know correct protocals at that time because things were run loose. So yes, I made purchases in support of Board activities that I didn't receive approval on. No one told me I needed to and our property manager at the time told me just to submit the receipts and not to worry about approval.

Starting about 14 months ago, I started having us vote on reimbursements at meetings and include notes about the reimbursement in minutes. In other words, I've grown as a Board member and learned a lot in the 3 years on the Board.

A large part of me thinks that this one homeowner is going back to my early days to find evidence of wrongdoing. None was done, but we weren't as good with documentation as we are today.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

So they find wrong doings. Is that disqualify you from running? The only requirement we have is must be a member in the HOA. Other HOA must be in good standing as well. You meet those 2 things then you qualify. Does not mean they can not vote to remove board members. Just have to get the votes to do so. Do you think that is possible? One person is enough to crumble your world?

Former HOA President

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/20/2023 4:54 PM
One person is enough to crumble your world?

YES

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

Michael or whatever your name really is,

I think you forget, it is their money as well as their neighbors that is the endeavor called your community. If this person who is asking for the records was on the board during the period they are asking for and things are missing, that is on them.

Not knowing that YOU needed permission before spending association money, that is on YOU!

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

That's a start, Michael. Now WHAT is listed in subsection (2) "A member may inspect and copy the records described in subsection (2) of this section....?" What is the name of the statute you're citing?

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 200

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 01/20/2023 5:15 PM
That's a start, Michael. Now WHAT is listed in subsection (2) "A member may inspect and copy the records described in subsection (2) of this section....?" What is the name of the statute you're citing?

I believe I've provided enough information for folks here to weigh in if the release of these records is my decision as an individual board member or if it needs to be made by the Board as a whole. I think it should be made by the Board as a whole.

NA1 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 190

Posted:

Can you turn over a dump of all invoices and receipts and leave it to the owner to try to figure out from there? Do the least effort possible? Charge by the page or give them a giant pdf?

We post all contracts to the building site. As someone else said proposals are confidential and may contain competitive information. Some of the proposals we get state that directly.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Awwwww, c'mon Michael, WHAT records must the board permit the woman to inspect? How far back in time must your PM go to collect them?

Are you going to reveal to the REST of the Board what is legally required? Why in the world would you think it might be the president's decision to make???

You won't even tell us the name of the WA statute you're citing?

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

I think it's possible Michael suffers from a tad bit of paranoia. The question is, what is he afraid of?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Typically, one can charge for copies (reimburse time, etc.).

The member typically only has a right to review the records.

Set up a time for the individual to review and let them know the cost for the copies if they don't want to personally show up.

JeanneH3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 158

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelT21 on 01/20/2023 4:47 PM
With regards to meeting minutes, keep in mind that I was never secretary and have only been president for a portion of my term. The records request go back to when I was a newbie on the Board. I didn't know correct protocals at that time because things were run loose. So yes, I made purchases in support of Board activities that I didn't receive approval on. No one told me I needed to and our property manager at the time told me just to submit the receipts and not to worry about approval.

Starting about 14 months ago, I started having us vote on reimbursements at meetings and include notes about the reimbursement in minutes. In other words, I've grown as a Board member and learned a lot in the 3 years on the Board.

A large part of me thinks that this one homeowner is going back to my early days to find evidence of wrongdoing. None was done, but we weren't as good with documentation as we are today.

All we wanted from our board was a humble admission that they screwed up, that the errors have been remedied or will be remedied in the future by specified action. But, no, what we got was stubborn refusal to acknowledge anything, continued secrecy, defiant non-compliancy with the law, delaying tactics handing over documents, etc. all of which had the net effect of increasing distrust and suspicions.

For God's sake, give this person everything required by law. Maybe you need to learn to say, "Yes, royally screwed that up 4 years ago but here's the evidence that protocols have changed for the better."

JeanneH3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 158

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelT21 on 01/20/2023 5:26 PM

Posted By KerryL1 on 01/20/2023 5:15 PM
That's a start, Michael. Now WHAT is listed in subsection (2) "A member may inspect and copy the records described in subsection (2) of this section....?" What is the name of the statute you're citing?

I believe I've provided enough information for folks here to weigh in if the release of these records is my decision as an individual board member or if it needs to be made by the Board as a whole. I think it should be made by the Board as a whole.

Do you really need a Kum By Yah hand holding experience with the Board to follow your state's laws about releasing records to an owner requesting them? Are you prepared to set the precedent that ALL owner requests for documents must go through a vetting process by the Board?

JeanneH3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 158

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 01/20/2023 5:15 PM
That's a start, Michael. Now WHAT is listed in subsection (2) "A member may inspect and copy the records described in subsection (2) of this section....?" What is the name of the statute you're citing?

Michael appears to be referring to a relatively new Washington State law regarding non-profit organizations: https://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2021-22/Pdf/Bills/Senate%20Passed%20Legislature/5034-S.PL.pdf#page=1

Using the left scroll bar, go to Section 1601 which initiates the section of law regarding records and member access to records. I don't read any limitations on how far back records can be requested except in the case of financial records and communication regarding financial records which is six years.

JeanneH3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 158

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelT21 on 01/20/2023 9:33 AM
A homeowner has requested 3+ years of paperwork, including actual receipts for purchases bought by a Board member and later reimbursed and copies of all bids and signed contracts.

How do we say no to an unreasonable request such as this?

According to the new Washington State Non-Profit Organization Act (I linked to it in a prior comment), a homeowner can request and receive all financial paperwork, including communications about financial documents, going back 6 years.

I'm beginning to wonder why you characterize a legal right of a homeowner to access these records as "unreasonable". It's clear from your quoting of the statute that you've read it but you haven't been willing in this thread to reference the entire section of the law pertaining to this.

LayaS (Nebraska)
Posts: 249

Posted:

MichaelT21,

Will you please clarify what state you are actually from? I thought you originally posted as being from Idaho. You have changed states a few times so I may have missed that you are from Washington.

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 200

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JeanneH3 on 01/22/2023 5:02 AM

I'm beginning to wonder why you characterize a legal right of a homeowner to access these records as "unreasonable".

There is nothing wrong with good faith inquiries to access HOA records.

However, this particular homeowner has claimed fraud and gross mismanagement of our HOA, and has sent between 3 - 5 e-mails in the last month threatening to get legal counsel involved, etc, unless we do as this homeowner is demanding. I've grown tired of the repeated demands, false claims of fraud, and threats to get legal counsel involved.

Her request for records will be approved, but we don't have to provide her the requested records 'right now'. All types of entities take a bit of time to process records requests and we don't need to scramble and put everything else aside just becuase a homeowner wants to see something. I think it's reasonable to work on putting her request together over the next 2 weeks and then approve the release of the requests at our next meeting. When someone is claiming that they are preparing to get legal counsel invovled, it makes sense that we review the requests as a group and make a group decision on how to respond. For example, if I individually okayed the release of the records, and then a lawsuit entailed, other Board members may be unhappy that I didn't check with them first. We don't do association business by e-mail, so it'll need to wait a couple weeks until the next regularly scheduled meeting.

Also, it's really not polite to accuse your neighbors of fraud when one has no evidence of fraud. After all, we will be living in close proximity for years to come. I think this homeowner is way out of line with the accusations and claims that are being levied and shared.

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 200

Posted:

There is nothing wrong with good faith inquiries to access HOA records.

However, this particular homeowner has claimed fraud and gross mismanagement of our HOA, and has sent between 3 - 5 e-mails in the last month threatening to get legal counsel involved, etc, unless we do as this homeowner is demanding. I've grown tired of the repeated demands, false claims of fraud, and threats to get legal counsel involved.

Her request for records will be approved, but we don't have to provide her the requested records 'right now'. All types of entities take a bit of time to process records requests and we don't need to scramble and put everything else aside just becuase a homeowner wants to see something. I think it's reasonable to work on putting her request together over the next 2 weeks and then approve the release of the requests at our next meeting. When someone is claiming that they are preparing to get legal counsel invovled, it makes sense that we review the requests as a group and make a group decision on how to respond. For example, if I individually okayed the release of the records, and then a lawsuit entailed, other Board members may be unhappy that I didn't check with them first. We don't do association business by e-mail, so it'll need to wait a couple weeks until the next regularly scheduled meeting.

Also, it's really not polite to accuse your neighbors of fraud when one has no evidence of fraud. After all, we will be living in close proximity for years to come. I think this homeowner is way out of line with the accusations and claims that are being levied and shared.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

When an owner threatens legal action I like to say do to your threats of legal action, we now are turning this matter over to our attorney for them to take action on. This usually stops them dead in their tracks. The last time we did this the owner tripped over them self to apology to the BOD.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JeanneH3 on 01/22/2023 5:02 AM

According to the new Washington State Non-Profit Organization Act (I linked to it in a prior comment), a homeowner can request and receive all financial paperwork, including communications about financial documents, going back 6 years.

The Washington Nonprofit corporation act says the corporation has to maintain all "financial statements" furnished in communications to members going back six years. The act says the corporation has to maintain "appropriate accounting records" and make these records available to owners for inspection and copying. https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=24.03A.210

It's possible the Wa HOA statute implies even receipts must be saved and be available to owners. It's up to Michael to say whether he's interested in what the HOA statute says.

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 200

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 01/22/2023 8:25 AM

Posted By JeanneH3 on 01/22/2023 5:02 AM

According to the new Washington State Non-Profit Organization Act (I linked to it in a prior comment), a homeowner can request and receive all financial paperwork, including communications about financial documents, going back 6 years.

The Washington Nonprofit corporation act says the corporation has to maintain all "financial statements" furnished in communications to members going back six years. The act says the corporation has to maintain "appropriate accounting records" and make these records available to owners for inspection and copying. https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=24.03A.210

It's possible the Wa HOA statute implies even receipts must be saved and be available to owners. It's up to Michael to say whether he's interested in what the HOA statute says.

No, it's not up to me. It's up to the Board to decide, and if appropriate, we can ask our legal counsel to advise us on what we need to provide. Our property manager has requested that we consult legal counsel, so I think that would be a reasonable next step with Board approval.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelT21 on 01/22/2023 8:47 AM

Posted By ElleN on 01/22/2023 8:25 AM

It's possible the Wa HOA statute implies even receipts must be saved and be available to owners. It's up to Michael to say whether he's interested in what the HOA statute says.

No, it's not up to me.

It is up to you whether to state at this forum whether you are interested in knowing what the Washington HOA statute says.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

This is related to the upcoming election, right, MichaelT? Your enemy has found one or more cronies to run against you, right? Your enemy also is an attorney & was a former board prez, right? You've claimed she left you HOA is a big financial mess. You & your Board have cleaned it up.

But you may not withhold the records just because she's a bad person and is rude.

When is the election?

JeanneH3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 158

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 01/22/2023 7:53 AM
When an owner threatens legal action I like to say do to your threats of legal action, we now are turning this matter over to our attorney for them to take action on. This usually stops them dead in their tracks. The last time we did this the owner tripped over them self to apology to the BOD.

Isn't a misuse of the association attorney who is to represent the association as a whole? Owner dues pay for the attorney to represent association interests, not the board members. An owner can sue individual board members and it is not the job of the association attorney to defend individual board members.

I would agree that early threats of legal action are typically vacuous by people who have no idea what it costs to initiate a lawsuit or legal action. It's a bluff because really good strategists would never give away their trump card that early in the game. But it doesn't benefit a BOD to dismiss threats of lawsuits either because in my state, the D&O insurance coverage doesn't apply unless the director wins the lawsuit so to answer a legal action or lawsuit requires an upfront payment, either from association funds or personal funds, gambling you will win to get reimbursed.

Why has communication been so bad that an owner has resorted to threats of legal action to try to gain some power advantage over the board? Why has the situation escalated to this level?

Michael has been playing a waiting game with this owner denying her access to records she has a legal right to copy. His recent post indicated he had received 3-5 emails from her in the past month and here he is still waffling, stalling in responding to her. It's not surprising at all that she is pissed. Geez Louise, give the woman what she wants!