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KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
So this is really long, but I think it’s a quick read. I’ve made remarks about survey design, but am not experienced at it except for very minor matters. I’ll appreciate any ideas about such design to make it unbiased and informative.

Our HOA, comprising 200+ condos in 2 - 25 story residential towers & some street side commercial suites & town homes on a city block in the center of an urban area just finished completely refurbishing the 22 y.o. residential corridors, floors 3-25 expensed from reserves. There are four corridor areas that surround the 2 elevators that are in the center of each tower (vs. a long hallway.) One “side” is the elevator vestibule. Three sides are hallways that serve a total max of 5 condo units per floor.

I was on the Board when all of the design decisions were made. We hired a design firm to help with many choices. Owners were polled on 2 color schemes, wallcover fabrics and hallway carpeting and tile for the vestibule, and the Board agreed with the choice of the majority. I think our new hallways are really striking, stylish, interesting, etc.. BUT…

… though the dated hallway ceiling cans were replaced with modern fixtures and the bulbs with LEDs, to many owners and to me, the 3 sides are toooo bright (not the vestibule). The appearance to me & others, then is garish, jarring & cheap. Total of 9 ceiling fixtures per floor X 44 floors+ 396 bulbs.

I’d like a survey of Owners to see if a strong majority of respondents agree or not about the level of illumination. It might simply state as an intro that the board seeks owners’ opinions on the level of illumination in the hallways. I think we’d want a little background on each owner/unit. Full time occupant. Part-time occupant. Non-occupant. The items might state: A. Just about right. B. Too bright. C. Too dim. (Is a different sequence less biased?)

I don’t know how much it will cost to dim the lighting or how it’d be done if that’s a clear preference. Removing all of the bulbs and purchasing dimmer ones, IF possible, I guess, is one way. Those removed would last the buildings lightbulb needs forever as the same bulbs are in lobbies, the gym, social rooms, etc.

Another way might be some sort of dimmer arrangement installation. A third could be “covers” for the bulbs. Anyway, it’d be very costly—have no idea how much? And it would be a capital improvement not a reserve expense.

The Board’d need to present the cost of the change in the survey and ask Owners if they would each be willing to pay $xxx for a special assessment? Or would they rather see dues raised in the operating budget for the next year at $xx a month to pay to lower the illumination if a majority of owners have that opinion.

We have about 25% absentee owners and maybe 13% part-time owner occupants. Some absentee owners never see their condos and, I suppose, would get the opinion of their personal property manager or realtor.
MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 200
Posted:
Kerry,

Kudos to you for thinking of a survey. We did about 5 surveys of our homeowners last year. Boy, I will say that our homeowners love giving us opinions in the form of surveys.

The first one was a long 10 or 12 question survey. We didn't get a great response to it.

Later, I found that it doing what I call "one question surveys" was more popular. Rather than doing one big survey with lots of questions, we blast out simple one question surveys throughout the year. They actually have two questions. One is the simple radio button that gives statistical data of the survey opinions. The second question is a freeform text box where people can write freeform comments.

These have worked out great. When we blast them out, we set the ground rules that every adult can fill out the survey, and it's simply designed to gather sentiment of the community. It's not a vote and not binding. By saying both adults in the unit/house can fill it out, we get higher response rates.

For yours, I would do this:

1. I think that the hallway lighting in our building is:
a. Too bright
b. Just right
c. Too dim
d. No opinion.

2. I would like to offer the following comments regarding hallway lighting.

These work great for our community. Your demographics are a bit different than ours, so I can't guarantee this would work in your building, but it's what we do.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
As for the lighting, I would consult with a union electrician. Switching to LED's and motion activated lighting is a wise move to save money and conserve electricity. I wouldn't
hurt to consult with a PV provider to install solar panels that will control the common areas. Lobbies and hallways do not need to be flashy KISS
Some durable sofas and chairs for the lobby but not extravoent.

Do you have any security guards that have been on the site for a long time? perhaps get their perspective.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
This is a poll not a survey...

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Melissa,

Many do not differentiate the terminology.

If one is wondering what the difference is, see: Poll vs Survey
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I suggest thinking about the purposes of the hallway lighting: ie., safety, comfort, convenience, aesthetics, etc. These things will drive the choices you make.

Maybe include a statement on why the board is re-visiting the topic, as well as a brief description of the purposes of the lighting and how each of them works in practice (eg. daytime vs. nighttime). And maybe discuss the tradeoffs - eg. safety/brightness vs. aesthetics or cost. It will help people make informed choices and not get distracted by irrelevant things.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I understand Tim. That is why me and you say that "Surveys" are whatever the surveyor point is. Which makes them bias and geared toward a result. A Poll has options the person taking the poll feedback is the result. The OP is a good example of what a POLL would look like. A survey would be more like "Do you want purple for the wall color?" Meaning the surveyor wants the color purple as a result or to cancel that option. The result being a purple wall or "No one wants purple". Here is the proof etc... A poll would be "Here is a list of colors we have limited choices to. Pick one on the list".

Former HOA President
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
If no one has provided feedback or complained to the Board is it worth the energy and associated costs to go down this road?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Wow--thanks for the thoughtful replies so far. Additional ones would be great.

For JohnT, there have been complaints to the Board and complaints at a recent Town Hall on the hallway (& simultaneous refurb. of our two 2-story lobbies). But I'm thinking that a lot of owners like the lighting so are silent. There are a couple of other elements that some owners have complained about that cannot be changed, but those folks might not be thinking about the lighting.

I should have added that there are no windows in these corridors so all lighting is artificial and is on 24/7. Safety is not an issue since a dimmer aesthetic would still provide plenty of illumination. No one can access these floors without using a fob in an elevator or being beeped up by a resident via an entry-phone system.

If I'd had my way, there'd be a couple of them on 24/7 (emergency lights), but many would be on motion sensors as is found in many hotel hallways all over Europe & Central Asia. But I couldn't gin up any interest in exploring that.
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 01/19/2023 9:51 AM
Wow--thanks for the thoughtful replies so far. Additional ones would be great.

For JohnT, there have been complaints to the Board and complaints at a recent Town Hall on the hallway (& simultaneous refurb. of our two 2-story lobbies). But I'm thinking that a lot of owners like the lighting so are silent. There are a couple of other elements that some owners have complained about that cannot be changed, but those folks might not be thinking about the lighting.

I should have added that there are no windows in these corridors so all lighting is artificial and is on 24/7. Safety is not an issue since a dimmer aesthetic would still provide plenty of illumination. No one can access these floors without using a fob in an elevator or being beeped up by a resident via an entry-phone system.

If I'd had my way, there'd be a couple of them on 24/7 (emergency lights), but many would be on motion sensors as is found in many hotel hallways all over Europe & Central Asia. But I couldn't gin up any interest in exploring that.

Thanks for the additional info. Based on many of your posts it sounds like you have a well run HOA which is a refreshing contrast to the many poorly run HOA's in condo communities.
JamesB37 (California)
Posts: 351
Posted:
Are the lights too 'bright' or perhaps the lighting is too 'harsh' (color temp)

Do you know anything about which particular light fixture was used?

The reason why I asked is some LED lights have the ability to change the 'color temp' of the light by a slide switch which would be up in the ceiling, out of sight with the electrical connection.

5000k for example is pretty bright and is commonly used for 'security lighting' where on the other end, 2700k is more of a 'warmer' looking light commonly used in living rooms, bedrooms, etc
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Ooooooh, thanks, James. You raise some interesting points. I know little about what the actual kind of fixtures are in the ceiling except they all are new and solely for LED bulbs. Would there be a switch for each individual lamp? Or for a floor? I don't know the lumens either (if that's the right word).

But something new just happened TODAY. A few weeks after the ceiling lights were installed, a sconce light was installed to the left of each condo door (max of 5 to a floor) to illuminate the door bell & Unit number (Ha, as if we need it). They are attractive. The light bulb color and/or brightness was the same as the ceiling bulbs. I just went outside my unit and, what? The sconce light bulbs now are a warmer golden shade instead of bright white. I do believe they also are less bright (fewer lumens, if that's the right word?)

If the ceiling lights were the same, the entire "look" of the corridors would be much more inviting, classy, restful. But to change out all ceiling bulbs would be a lot of $. I need to find out if a switch exists.

Btw, a reason the bright white lights seem sooo bright is that the wall covering is a a nicely-textured white. For custodial purposes it's washable, so has a slight though almost imperceptible sheen to it. IMO, this exacerbate the harshness due to a reflection off of the sheen.

I'll see what I can learn about the ceiling fixtures.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I learned that our ceiling lights are at 3,500 lumens that can be "set" to 3,000 or 2,700 at a "cost." Are your numbers, James, e.g., 2700k, lumens or something else? Wonder what the cost could be??/

Gotta go!
JamesB37 (California)
Posts: 351
Posted:
4 digit numbers like that are the color temp

google 'led color temperature chart' and you should get some idea where 3,000 stands.

I have installed a number of these Lithonia brand lights in my own house. They come in different sizes (6", 8" etc) and in different color temp ranges. The newer ones have the switch that I mentioned. These specific lights are held in place to the ceiling drywall by two spring clips. So basically you can pull the light down about an inch, unlatch the spring clip and then connected to the light by about a 12" cable is the 'driver' box that has the slide switch to change the color temp. (The newer lights have a pretty good range 3,000, 4,000 or 5,000.) No real skill involved to change the color temp, just someone with a ladder if your lights are similar in design

https://www.amazon.com/Lithonia-Lighting-WF6-27K30K35K-90CRI/dp/B07N1BGNVV/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2GSMY37GM7GG7&keywords=B07N1BGNVV&qid=1674260574&s=hi&sprefix=b07n1bgnvv%2Ctools%2C149&sr=1-2&th=1

Dimmers would be an option, but you have to make sure the dimmer is compatible with the led lights. (The older 'magnetic' type dimmers don't work well with LEDs). Usually you would replace the light switch with a dimmer switch
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Thanks again, James. I learned today that dimmers are not an option. We've installed LED ceiling lights in our condo too. but the ones in our common area corridors are waaaaydifferent I believe and here is no simple switch to change the "setting." Anyway, I'll poke ab round a little more.

Thanks to all for you help too. I see I still have a lot to learn.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Oh, and thanks to Tim for the reference to Poll vs. Survey. If we do something like that it would be a survey because there'd be more than one question and we'd want some personal info.It'd be, as Michael & I both showed, easy to build the first part without bias.

Here's an example of a survey by a group that really, really, wants suppliers to buy more roses. We'll call them the United Rose Growers of Watsonville (URGW) ,an area well known for growing rose and artichokes too. Let's say they want to survey all of their supplier customers who buy roses to sell to florists. The URGW, of course wants to know how to increase their sales. They design a survey with the preliminary questions about the suppliers' customer base: where it is, how many florists they serve, $$ sales of roses per month, etc. Then they ask:" In your experience please rank what your florist retailers prefer the most in the roses they buy"; they already know color preferences.:

Straight stems
few thorns
fragrance
long-lasting life
long strong stems

In what sense does this survey show bias? I heard the results of a real very similar (and I'm sure far better) survey years ago. The big loser? Fragrance. So those growers bred roses with straighter/few thorn stems.

ChrisP5 (Missouri)
Posts: 165
Posted:
If you have the ability to change to 2700 (warm light vs white light) you might considering paying to change the fixtures on one wing or entire floor of a building and letting your residents know that they can go see that floor to see what the change might look like. I'm not sure if your owners can access every floor or you would need to make a change to your fobs for security. Personally I would be much happier if my hallway was warm light vs. bright white.

You will probably incur some labor costs for the change but it shouldn't be as bad as replacement. If you have a good maintenance staff they can probably make the color temp change at each fixture vs. having to have the electricians out.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Thanks, Chris. My thinking was moving in that direction too! A residential floor has a square center core of 2 elevators + the elevator vestibule. It is "surrounded" by a partial square comprised of 3 corridors. They each are only about 25 feet long. There are a total of 8 (not 9) ceiling lights on the 3 corridor ceilings. I don't think it'd be very expensive to reset the light to 2700 lumens on the 3 sides of one floor for owners to see.

I do know it takes more than simply a ladder & changing bulbs.

(All residents have elevator fob access to all floors.)

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