Interesting Observance on threads

I find it's interesting how some posts are phrased to illicit certain responses and when the details are drawn out, the actual facts shine a different light onto the topic.

Most know that survey questions are written to illicit a desired responses.
It's good to remember that some forum threads are also written to illicit a desired response.

Sometimes it's due to the OP having on blinders - that is to say, the poster is so wrapped up in the issue and so frustrated that they can't see any other perspective to the issue.
When this occurs, I've found that the poster is often receptive to different perspectives.

Sometimes it's intentional - Shopping for answers would be one reason.
When this occurs, I often see that the individual hears but doesn't listen.

Just an interesting observance.

Keep in mind that most surveys are created to monitor opinions. Well the person who writes the survey is basing most of it on THEIR opinion. There is a difference between taking a "POLL" and a "Survey". Example: You walk out of a polling place. Someone approaches you and asks "Who did you vote for?" That is a POLL question. It is a simple fact with simple choices. Now a SURVEY would ask this "Why did you vote for that person? A. They are cute. B. Knowledgeable. C. You know them personally. Well this "survey" is geared towards making you think this person is good looking smart person that your voting for because you know them. Keep in mind you may have voted for them because (Like me) have the most "porn star" sounding name. (True story). Now the "survey" results will now reflect the person was voted on by being "Cute" if majority selected "A". Is that really why and does that reflect the whole story or the narrative of the surveyor?

That is what Tim is touching on. I may send a survey out that says "What do you think of the HOA collecting money by taking over the duty of sending out part of closing paperwork?" Well I think the HOA getting more money is great! However, this doesn't take into consideration that this "extra" money will required paying taxes on it. It is also going to be done by one person who normally part of the volunteer duties is now going to do it for a "profit" for the non-profit HOA.

I can get anything basically to be skewed by a survey. Taking a poll of people's opinion by collecting their feedback is what a HOA should be doing.

Sometimes people just want to support their own opinion be darned if it's supported by law or reality...

My recent observation is related to Tim's post. At some point, ignorance (even sincerely held ignorance) is essentially trolling. It can be hard to spot after a single thread, but if someone posts multiple threads and they all pretty much go the same way, you can assume they're looking for something other than information and you may as well not bother responding.

Another thing I've noticed on all boards where people can ask for advice: the issue that gets the OP to post is often the tip of the iceberg and not the most serious thing that's wrong in their situation. For example, a few years ago a new poster complained that the board wasn't providing board meeting minutes. After much digging, it turned out that there was no board, only one person who got elected years ago and who just stayed put, the community's corporate status had lapsed and they were uninsured. Yipes.

You forgot to mention NO one even bothered to reply when I posted the update below. The original question was who is the requestor in this contract clause dealing with closing paperwork:
Should the Association request agent to perform the following .....coordination with cpa, etc,......blah blah. Upon request and at a fee paid for by requestor, agent will provide current homeowner, potential homeowner{,} and or mortgage company
documentation needed for closing and or transfer of property.

MC replies below that the requestor was the home owner.

That is a misinterpretation of the contract. "Upon request" is not the Boards request. Its the buyer and sellers request and they are responsible for the fee not the association. This is not something that can be negotiated as this service is part of the contract and will need to remain part of XXXX's services. We are not equipped to effectively work with a third party for closings.

My response was Contract between MC AND BOD can't enforce terms on a 3rd party (seller)
AND even if what MC is saying is true. The clause still lets the seller choose who they use. The seller can choose to use the HOA's BOD.

Zero people gave input on the above. The only response Im trying to illicit is for people to stick to the topic and answer the question.

Ok, then maybe people can also ponder why a forum even exists if answering questions is not the goal? No one disagreed with me and said the "requestor" was the seller. Sure they disagreed on tangential off topic stuff that I already reseached. Even now instead of giving a straight up or down answer of who REQUJESTOR is your response is to argue.

It's confirmation bias and everyone has it, including you. I see it as people not grasping what the most pertinent facts are to bring forward nor do they know how to arrange the presentation of facts in a logical manner. I've experienced this years ago when I and two siblings engaged in arbitration with a fourth sibling over the estate of our father. I and the two sibs went into the process all fired up believing one set of facts was the most important but I had hired an excellent attorney who kept three snorting mad clients reined in because he was better than we were at determining what were the best facts to bring forth and when to do it. He clobbered our brother, the executor, who had been embezzling from the estate, among other things.

Since you are implying by default that you do not post factually inadequate posts to illicit responses, perhaps your role in the forum is to use your talents to draw out the facts that are pertinent and guide people, like a lawyer or advisor would do, to understand what is really important and what is not.

To answer your question later in this thread, from the Mayo Clinic web page: "Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental health condition in which people have an unreasonably high sense of their own importance. They need and seek too much attention and want people to admire them."

Absolutely agree.

Everyone has bias.


Certainly not what I was implying.
I was making a general observation.

Everyone posts based on their perspective.
I believe one can make a better, more informed, decision on an issue based on the more perspectives one can see.

My observation, perhaps, could have been stated better as I see many are pulling things from the posting that simply wasn't intended.


I don't think I had such a question.

Tim, it is simply not true that "most" surveys are written to elicit a "desired" response. Sure, surveys about attitudes or opinions sent to you by a political party may be designed as such. But the also may be neutral. But far more survey research is to learn about a lot more than attitudes. And they can help move us forward on many fronts. Survey research, for instance, about the particular health and living situations of, say, US military veterans over the age of 60 can guide all kinds of organizations in terms of their work with veterans. Correct survey design is a science and honest surveys are reviewed by neutral sometimes anonymous "judges" or even committees who look for bias, validity, etc.

Back to your topic, Tim. I do think many posters have real concrete issues and seek help to resolve them. Many newer posters do not give us enough information, so we have to ask for more, e.g., "are you on the board?" Some do not know common HOA language and so their questions might seem strange. Many do not know how to find out about their rights and obligations as HOA members and/or leaders. Again, we can draw them out and maybe do a little educating.

I view the threads from homeowners with problems as real-life training and discussion opportunities for the experienced board members and community managers. The thornier the problem, the more I learn. Even if the laws or CC&Rs are different from my own, I find that viewing typical issues through a different lens can be helpful.

Ha. Cathy beat me to it. Owners' issues are really good ways for HOA leaders to learn more and to teach each other. Some might articulate ideas that have been floating around in a leader's head, but the person was unable to state it until expressed here.

I'd also say that "99.9% " questions one from owners is a wild exaggeration. Many questions come from board members, e.g., Wendy, MichaelT, Lori and also sometimes from committee members

Correction, your suggestion: "maybe it's time to look again at the definition of narcissistic behavior".

You nailed it JohnT38.

Kerry, I agree that many of the posts are from owners with issues. Maybe not 99.9% but a lot. If you read Tim's thread about what brought you to this forum are initially from members who have had problems with something involving their HOA.