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KathyE5 (Missouri)
Posts: 34
Posted:
Hi!

Our association is in a real pickle. A person from California stole the identity of a man from Illinois and purchased a home, through a Santa Barbara mortgage company, that is located in our development. This person never paid a single payment nor did she pay a single HOA assessment. We believe that she was selling drugs and/or trafficking in stolen identities from the home in our development which, despite what this sounds like, is a very nice development with homes that range in price to about $1.5 million. (We are in Missouri).

So, the police, for whatever reason, ran down this person but she and her extended family had already gone on the lam. That hasn't kept people she knows from occasionally breaking into the home for whatever reason and doing who knows what? Last time, they took out a sofa and loveseat. (We call the sheriff's department but, unfortunately, only the sheriff seems to know what this person is wanted for; when deputies respond to the calls they question the 'thieves' and are told that they are the 'owners,' which isn't true but the deputies claim that they can do nothing because these people are the owners. I and the other board members, unfortunately, seem never to be around when something like this occurs and so the 'thieves' get away scot-free -- and we are no closer to finding out the whereabouts of our recalcitrant 'identity thief owners.'

The 'owner' left last March; the electric also was cut off in March. We had very cold weather AFTER the electric was cut off so we feel certain that the watr pipes in the home have burst. The people who have been sneaking into the house have torn up the rugs, pulled up tiles and other flooring -- searching for what we don't know. The original 'owner' had dogs and cats and there is pet excrement everywhere in the home. She left food in the refrigerator and that has now spoiled and on warm days the home puts off quite a stench if you standing in the home's backyard.

I started foreclosure proceedings until lawyers' fees became too high; I have added them to the lien we have placed on the property for back HOA assessments.

My problems are myriad. The FIRST mortgage holder sold the note to a SECOND mortgage holder who WILL NOT ANSWER their phone or reply to any correspondence. They have, however, hired a company called Service Mac to take care of yard work -- and nothing else. I have attempted to deal with Service Mac but to date our only communication from them was to inform us that they no one will be paying our HOA assessments. Not only that but the address that they gave to me -- and which I have verified -- results in all documents being returned to me as 'undeliverable.'

TWICE this home has gone up for sale on the courthouse steps; TWICE people have been there at the time of the sale with enough MONEY IN HAND to complete this sale and yet the lawyers who are handling this property -- and who are based in Overland Park, KS -- have twice pulled the house from the bidding process. The lawyers will NOT TALK to me about WHY they did this because I am not a 'stakeholder,' which I take to mean that I am not the property owner. Well, d'uh! She STOLE HER IDENTITY!! NO ONE IS HER!

I am at my wit's end. We do have a lawyer but they are unhopeful of us actually being able to foreclose.

I have thought about enlisting the help of our local Building Inspector to see if we might get the home condemned but what new can of worms will THAT open up for us?

Right now this property is into our HOA for $2,125 back assessments plus $1,500 lawyer's fees.

I hope that someone here has a good idea concerning what next steps I should take, including whether or not the condemnation proceeding (if it were approved) would be a good idea).

I am thanking you in advance for your help with this issue.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I'm sorry that you are going through this and that your lawyer has been unhelpful, because I think you need solid legal advice. Foreclosures can be tough even for garden variety non-payers, but you've got criminal activity on top of it.

I am not a lawyer, so take this with a grain of salt. But I suspect that the reason the auctions didn't go through was because the potential buyers discovered that they couldn't get clear title to the property. So finding out who the title holder is would be step one. Until that is resolved and your lawyer tells you what obligations that owner has, any further steps are premature (aside from keeping a lien on the property).

Once you know who the real owner is and what obligations that person has, the lawyer may be able to advise you on what other things the HOA can lawfully do to maintain the property and what would happen if the property is condemned. There may be provisions in your governing docs or state law that allows the HOA to act pre-emptively if the owner is failing to maintain the property. But you really want the lawyer's informed opinion and blessing on your actions.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Also regarding the title holder, they need to sort out who is legally liable for fraudulently selling the home. Is the title company also on the hook? Have any criminal charges been filed? What is the status of the cases? Criminal cases can take a long time to wind their ways through the courts, so you should be prepared for a long wait and assume you won't see any money any time soon. Don't attempt to take any shortcuts here, because the last thing you need is for the association to have "unclean hands" as well.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KathyE5 on 01/05/2023 9:51 AM
Our association is in a real pickle.
[snip]
I am at my wit's end. We do have a lawyer but they are unhopeful of us actually being able to foreclose.

I have thought about enlisting the help of our local Building Inspector to see if we might get the home condemned but what new can of worms will THAT open up for us?

Right now this property is into our HOA for $2,125 back assessments plus $1,500 lawyer's fees.
It looks like condemnation can take a year or more. I do not think I'd try to get the building condemned.

The situation sounds uncontrollable, and the attorney says as much. It sounds like it's time for the HOA board to cut the HOA's losses; forget about worrying about this house; and anticipate writing off the roughly $4000 of money owed. You got the yard being maintained. The rest is only a pickle if you let it be one. Owners who complain about the appearance should be told the board has done everything it could and patience by all is important. Stuff happens.
KathyE5 (Missouri)
Posts: 34
Posted:
Our thanks to all who have responded.

Kathy
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 01/05/2023 10:44 AM
Posted By KathyE5 on 01/05/2023 9:51 AM
Our association is in a real pickle.
[snip]
I am at my wit's end. We do have a lawyer but they are unhopeful of us actually being able to foreclose.

I have thought about enlisting the help of our local Building Inspector to see if we might get the home condemned but what new can of worms will THAT open up for us?

Right now this property is into our HOA for $2,125 back assessments plus $1,500 lawyer's fees.
It looks like condemnation can take a year or more. I do not think I'd try to get the building condemned.

The situation sounds uncontrollable, and the attorney says as much. It sounds like it's time for the HOA board to cut the HOA's losses; forget about worrying about this house; and anticipate writing off the roughly $4000 of money owed. You got the yard being maintained. The rest is only a pickle if you let it be one. Owners who complain about the appearance should be told the board has done everything it could and patience by all is important. Stuff happens.

Good advice.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Cathy gave good advice. Wanted to add something as I agree the issue is with the homes title. It is probably tied up in legal with the person who had ID stolen.

There is another way the home can be foreclosed on. Which may halp take the HOA out of this. It would be by the "tax man".

I am sure the taxes are not being paid. When that happens the government forecloses for unpaid taxes. This also happens if no one wins the bid at the HOA foreclosure.

It is a long process but would find out if it has a tax lien on it. If so, call off your lawyer. Let that process roll with your lien filed. Hope a house flipper picks up the home after. This will take another upwards to a year as right of redemption exists in many states. Right of redemption can be 0 to 1 year after foreclosure. So even new owner hands are tied till that ends.

Former HOA President
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Google: how does a tax lien foreclosure work? Upsolve has a good article describing it all.

Former HOA President
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Google: how does a tax lien foreclosure work? Upsolve has a good article describing it all.

Former HOA President
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Who owned the house before the identity thief took possession? Don't they have a right to reclaim their property?
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LetA on 01/07/2023 7:45 PM
Who owned the house before the identity thief took possession? Don't they have a right to reclaim their property?

It sounds like the original owner sold the home, but the buyer committed fraud/theft/etc. by purchasing the home using someone else's name/details/credit rating/etc. IANAL, but I suspect that the original owner still owns the property - but that's going to have to shake out in court and is going to take some time.

If I were the original owner, I'd be pretty miffed to find out I still owned a property that I'd wanted to get rid of and may not be able to afford now (assuming here that the owner now owns two homes). Do I owe back taxes or other things like HOA fees? What happens to my credit rating? I'd be talking to a lawyer and suing everybody in this chain of events: the identity thief, mortgage company, realtor, title company, etc.

The mortgage company and title company especially have an obligation to verify the identity of the buyer. Buyers around here have to provide proof of identity - at the very least a valid, current driver's license or state ID. I imagine our little identity thief provided fake credentials, but the lender and title company are well aware of things like money laundering and other fraudulent activities involving real estate - they should have looked harder. Speculating here, but the identity thief doesn't sound very "professional" or skilled to me, since their actions (not paying assessments) meant that they immediately came to somebody's attention. The professional criminal does a better job of hiding their tracks, at least for a while.

Unfortunately the HOA may also come in for some unpleasantness since they tried to foreclose (twice!) on a property where ownership was in dispute. Even if they were acting in good faith, which I assume they were, they did the thing. Which is why I recommended talking to a good lawyer to find out what the HOA's legal liability is.

The HOA is going to have to slow their roll and forget about collecting assessments for a while. Keep a lien on the property, cut the grass once in a while, maybe make sure there aren't any squatters or drug dealers in there, but that's about it until all of the legal wrangling is done.

(I hope some of our other readers who are hot to trot on foreclosing are reading this thread. This is an unusual situation, but it shows what can happen when an HOA jumps to foreclosure prematurely.)

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LetA on 01/07/2023 7:45 PM
Who owned the house before the identity thief took possession? Don't they have a right to reclaim their property?
The seller sold the house apparently before March of last year. Why would this seller even want to try to reclaim the property? The seller has the money and seems to me is long gone. If the seller had a mortgage, nor do I see the seller's lender returning the money to the buyer (or the buyer's lender) (whoever the buyer is here, or is not, given the fraud alleged). I agree this may be messy but initally, I see the seller and the seller's lender retorting, "The property is titled in the buyer's name. The buyer and his lender signed off and paid. The title company approved. Not our problem. Go away."
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
First, I think you can leave the seller out of this argument. They sold their house and got their money. It's not up to them to know if it's a legitimate buyer or not - that's up to the mortgage company or the title company of the buyer.

Second, this is a perfect example of how an HOA needs to have an attorney and use them. I know a lot of people on this site think attorneys are only there to screw you. However, this is a very complicated case. There's no HOA self-help here - you need a professional to look at case law, understand the statutes, understand foreclosure laws, etc. Most likely there's going to have to be a lawsuit filed by the HOA to figure out who exactly owns this house.

Is this going to cost the HOA money? It sure is. And if you say you don't have enough money in your budget in a community of homes that cost over $1 million, then your monthly fees are too low. Every community needs to have a legal budget because these things do cost money. Sadly, sometimes it costs a lot to collect what is rightfully owed the HOA.

This most likely is not going to get settled for years. You should turn this case over to the HOA attorney and then sit back and not worry until they figure out who actually owns the house. As long as the exterior of the house is being maintained, there's not much you can do. If there are squatters, just keep calling the police. It's not a great situation, but eventually someone will buy the house and the HOA will get some money.

Board members have a fiduciary duty to the community to try and collect money owed to the organization. In this case, the only way this is going to get done is by paying an attorney to work on it. You are not wasting money to hire the attorney - you are spending the money needed to fulfill your fiduciary duty.
KathyE5 (Missouri)
Posts: 34
Posted:
We have an attorney; we used them; it was going nowhere because with identity theft there is myriad fraud and the mortgage has changed hands. Our legal team said our chances of foreclosing are slim and, even if we were successful, it would take a long time to come to fruition. The mortgage company, of course, would have to be notified of our court action and they would be able to swoop in an foreclose first. But on who do they foreclose? That is the question.

If you have ever been involved in identity theft there is not quick and easy solution. Everyone WANTS their money but where do you go to GET it? There seems right now nothing that can be done. No one will talk to us OR our lawyers because the property owner (who doesn't exist) hasn't given their approval to discuss with us. It is a Catch-22. And, believe me, legal letters have been sent but to no avail.

Our lawyers can be found working for a huge law firm that deals exclusively with HOA law. I think if there was something that they could do, that they would do it.

I only mentioned money because our HOA really can't afford continuing to try to foreclose on a property that even our lawyers admit we would have little chance of obtaining.

Rather than filing a lawsuit to determine ownership of the property I think I will do what another respondent to the post suggested: put the bug in the county tax collector's ear and see what they can come up with. They have not been collecting property taxes, they will never collect property taxes, and so they will have a vested interest in having the county's attorneys find out who owns this property. And if they cannot do so, well, then I will go back to the law firm. In the meantime, I think I will call the person whose identity this woman stole. I would imagine he has all sorts of helpful information that, if he would share, we could use.

Thanks for your comments.
KathyE5 (Missouri)
Posts: 34
Posted:
I agree with you completely.
KathyE5 (Missouri)
Posts: 34
Posted:
The current mortgage holder, who will not pay the assessments, has contracted with a service company (Service Mac) to take care of the yard. So, at least that is being done.
KathyE5 (Missouri)
Posts: 34
Posted:
Thank you. This is a good idea and I will act on it tomorrow.

We had a house 'flipper' twice try to buy the home at a foreclosure sale only to have the sale closed without commencing as he stood there with money burning a hole in his pocket. It is quite difficult to get $350M or so in cash or a cashier's check only to be told 'no sale' at the last minute. This guy would have done a beautiful job on the home, I have no doubt, so it breaks my heart to see this chance snuffed out, at least for the present time.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KathyE5 on 01/08/2023 9:57 AM
In the meantime, I think I will call the person whose identity this woman stole. I would imagine he has all sorts of helpful information that, if he would share, we could use.
Don't you think doing this translates to your taking on the role of a district attorney or one of the DA's staff? This is about a criminal investigation at this point, isn't it? I think staying out of the legal and criminal weeds here and letting the professionals do their job is best.
KathyE5 (Missouri)
Posts: 34
Posted:
You're right; I have thought better of it and decided not to get involved.

Thanks for the advice.

Kathy
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
HOA's have no business involving themselves in the private transfer of property PERIOD. Once the owners stops paying assessments and the HOA elects their option to foreclose, then it becomes either a slam dunk
for the HOA to ensure the home is sold to a new owner or it becomes a fighting match between the banks and lawyers involved. PS let the banks do the dirty work. Just keep fining, assessing and file the necessary liens
as what is owed to the HOA pile up.

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