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CindyW6 (Florida)
Posts: 11
Posted:
I have done extensive research to find answers. We live in a small mandatory HOA, NFP corporation that is active. I have copies of all root titles. First one expired in 2016, the last in 2019. The current Board was just made aware of the MRTA expiration and now they are scrambling to 'cover' their tracks. It is clear from MRTA that they must go the Revitalization route. They filed Amended Restrictions just recently. Verbage that was added was not voted on by the majority of the property owners.
Since 2019 with the last lot aging out at 30 years, the enforcement of restrictions is gone and so it their authority to enforce anything. There are owners that do not want to be included in the HOA if they try to revitalize. We have no common areas, just a private road. They have recently spent money on attorney fees to look into MRTA expiration. They are also saying that nothing has changed in regards to collections of dues and compliance with restrictions, fines and liens.

What happens to the HOA money? Does it get disbursed back to the property owners who were owners when their restrictions expired? Who funds the revitalization process? From what I am reading that can be quite expensive. We have privately consulted with a MRTA lawyer who tells us that the restrictions have expired for our lots.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
What happens to HOA assessments paid by property owners after the covenants expired? The owners can send a letter and make a formal demand on the HOA to pay the money back. If the HOA refuses, then the owners could take the HOA (as a corporation?) to court. If the HOA used this money to maintain the road, and so the owners received a benefit from these assessment dollars, or if the HOA has any legal wiggle room, then the court battle may be more expensive (due to attorney fees) than it is worth. I tend to think owners should say goodbye to these assessments and in the future, and as long as they do not care about maintenance of the road, they can stop paying. But do they really not care about maintenance of the road? Legal wiggle room might occur if the corporation owns the road. Just because the covenants terminate does not mean the corporation necessarily terminates.

If this private road is essential to people accessing their homes, someone is going to have to step up and arrange for the drafting of a formal road agreement, where all agree on paying for maintenance of the road.

What's going on with insurance at this time? FS 617 shows signs that board members might still be indemnified by the HOA corporation, meaning that all owners pay for any honest mistake board members make. This might be another reason not to sue.

Regarding who funds the revitalization process, I expect this will be anyone who volunteers to chip in. I don't see that the corporation has the power to force on owners an assessment to pay for this.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
ElleN

What experience do you have with FL MRTA's?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Do. serach Herę on MRTA, Cindy. there's a FL poster who's written a lot about it. Name might be Gwen? Other at the Monte, we seem to have only one regular FL poster, but he's knowledgeable.
CindyW6 (Florida)
Posts: 11
Posted:
As I stated, I have done extensive research. Read everything on here, including the informative posts & replies with Kevin7 and Gwen6. As a side note, I have tried to use the search function numerous times and does not connect and times out.
CindyW6 (Florida)
Posts: 11
Posted:
I have researched and found the first deed that the developer sold of my lot.

It states the following:
"Lot ## of (name of Subdivision), Phase #, according to Plat recorded in Plat Book ## at pages ### and ### of the Public Records of (name) County, Florida. Subject to restrictions of record and taxes for 1986".

This was filed on 13 May 1986.

On the Plat Site plan submitted by the developer it does list the Restrictions on file with the Book & page number.

In those restrictions, there is a paragraph that says: "Unless rescinded as hereinbefore provided, these restrictive covenants shall remain in full force and effect for 30 years from and after the date hereof, and thereafter for such period of time as shall be determined by affirmative vote of the owners of 75% of the lots".

A subsequent filing of Amended Restrictions on 10 April 1996, removed that 30 year sentence.

Am I correct in that Amendments to the original Restrictions do not 'reset' the 30 year clock?
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CindyW6 on 12/26/2022 4:47 AM
In those restrictions, there is a paragraph that says: "Unless rescinded as hereinbefore provided, these restrictive covenants shall remain in full force and effect for 30 years from and after the date hereof, and thereafter for such period of time as shall be determined by affirmative vote of the owners of 75% of the lots".

A subsequent filing of Amended Restrictions on 10 April 1996, removed that 30 year sentence.

Am I correct in that Amendments to the original Restrictions do not 'reset' the 30 year clock?
Now you are raising a question about whether the covenants are expired in the first place. I expect you're eager to learn, but you also know that asking people here at hoatalk (all non-attorneys) to get into the legal weeds of this subject is a tall order.

People like GenoS and several others at this almost ten-year-old, ten page long (so far) and still active thread did get into this: https://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/tpage/1/view/Topic/postid/149433/Default.aspx . Maybe some of these folks will return. Here's what I can say:

Maybe you are seeing discussion about how the statute was changed in 2018 creating certain (or additional) exceptions. Like from https://www.handfirm.com/blog/new-laws-to-preserve-and-revive-hoa-covenants/: "The covenants may also be preserved by an amendment to the covenants and restrictions that is indexed under the legal name of the property owners’ association, references the legal name of the property owners’ association and references the recording information of the covenant or restriction to be preserved." You're probably also going to the MRTA statute itself and seeing FS 712.05 (2) (b). The latter suggests your HOA's 1996 amendment reset the clock. But other sites suggest this exception kicks in only if the Declaration amendment occurs after July 1, 2018 (and also before extinguishment). From https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/homeowners-associations-and-the-1709888/: "An exception also arises where, subsequent to July 1, 2018, a homeowners association records a properly adopted amendment to its declaration of covenants and restrictions prior to extinguishment." You should raise this question (about the 1996 amendment) with your attorney. Meanwhile if you want help exploring the aforementioned comment from the jdsupra site, just ask, and I will look into it. I am not clear if the jdsupra site is saying that the MRTA statute changed in 2018, and such changes do not look backwards (at amendments filed prior to 2018). It's a good question.

Regarding payments members made after the covenants expired: Keep in mind that, if the covenants have expired, then the HOA becomes a 'voluntary HOA.' The HOA might continue to send out invoices to members and collect dues. There's an argument that, when owners went ahead and paid these dues, they did so voluntarily. I continue to advise not fighting the dues people paid after the apparent extinguishment and up to today.

Members should also take a close look at the corporate governing documents (bylaws and articles of incorporation) to see if they have language binding them to pay for upkeep of the road. Though as noted above, even if this language is absent, and if the corporation owns the road, and possibly per obligations to the city or county there (as given on the plats?), members may be obliged to continue maintaining the road.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CindyW6 on 12/26/2022 4:47 AM

In those restrictions, there is a paragraph that says: "Unless rescinded as hereinbefore provided, these restrictive covenants shall remain in full force and effect for 30 years from and after the date hereof, and thereafter for such period of time as shall be determined by affirmative vote of the owners of 75% of the lots".

A subsequent filing of Amended Restrictions on 10 April 1996, removed that 30 year sentence.

Am I correct in that Amendments to the original Restrictions do not 'reset' the 30 year clock?
I now think you're right. Additional sites saying that one of the criteria for an amendment to reset the 30 year clock is that the amendment occurs after (July 1 or October 1?) 2018:

"Finally, 712.05 was amended to clarify that subsequent to July 1st, 2018 if the association records an amendment to their governing documents before they expire, the governing documents are preserved." http://www.hoa-condoblog.com/EGBlog012819.html

"Item (2) is a major change and effectively removes the application of MRTA extinguishment if an amendment referencing by Official Records Book and Page has been recorded in the prior 30 years. Thus, every new amendment referencing the Official Records Book and Page of the original Declaration starts the 30 year clock again." Key word is "new." https://gadclaw.com/resources/blog/2018-legislative-update-for-new-condominium-association-laws/

"However and as a result of changes to the law in 2018, amendments can now be used to preserve covenants for purposes of MRTA if they contain certain information, which information is generally not normally or otherwise required to be included in amendments to instrument." Key word is "now." http://christylegal.com/mrta-issues-confronting-community-associations-and-commercial-property-owners-associations/
CindyW6 (Florida)
Posts: 11
Posted:
@ElleN. We found the following paragraph in a a later Amended Restriction (dated Apr 1996).

"The provisions herein contained are intended to replace all restrictions applicable to (name of subdivision), recorded prior to these restrictions contained herein".

it is interesting to note that this amendment was not drafted by an attorney. Also, that the Amended Restrictions do not specify the book and page number as filed in the County records. Matissek v. Waller, 51 So.3d 625 (Fla 2d DCA 2011) find that the book & page do not meet the requirements of FS 712.03. Thanks for that link to that information.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CindyW6 on 12/26/2022 9:14 AM
@ElleN. We found the following paragraph in a a later Amended Restriction (dated Apr 1996).

"The provisions herein contained are intended to replace all restrictions applicable to (name of subdivision), recorded prior to these restrictions contained herein".

it is interesting to note that this amendment was not drafted by an attorney. Also, that the Amended Restrictions do not specify the book and page number as filed in the County records. Matissek v. Waller, 51 So.3d 625 (Fla 2d DCA 2011) find that the book & page do not meet the requirements of FS 712.03. Thanks for that link to that information.
Cindy, thx for the elaboration. For a few reasons I personally still am not buying that the 1996 "amended restriction" would reset the clock. From the Florida MRTA case law in general, the amendment seems too general, and it's a mere amendment. Like I think you are pointing out, FS 712.05 (2) (b)'s exact wording is that the amendment must reference "the recording information of the covenant or restriction to be preserved." This 1996 amendment so far seems to lack this recording information.

Plus as I noted above, I think declaration amendments recorded before 2018 simply do not count when it comes to applying 712.05 (2) (b). I am keeping in mind that every word of the entire 712.05 (2) (b) section was new in 2018. There's no quibbling about "effective dates" within this particular section.

If legislators had let this new section 712.05 (2) (b) apply to amendments created before 2018, then I think massive litigation and chaos would be likely. Like between HOAs and lot owners whose covenants expired per the terms of the pre-2018 MRTA statute. If the 2018 statute changes applied retroactively, the covenants could potentially be resurrected using a pre-2018 amendment. But this means people who bought into the HOA before 2018, with certain expectations based on the pre-2018 statute, would have the rug pulled out from under them. I am no lawyer but I feel good about what you claim (that this 1996 amendment does not reset the clock).

I agree it's worth noting that an attorney did not write the 1996 amendment.

I see that the well-traveled ten page thread started in 2013 does not have posts starting after mid-2018 until page 9. That long thread is not so great for questions that might pertain to the 2018 changes to FS 712 and FS 720. The thread does still seem instructive as far as learning about how tenacious (and often wrong) HOAs can be in battling owners who say the restrictions have expired under MRTA. If your HOA digs in and insists on arguing that the covenants have not expired, especially with a money hungry HOA attorney, the HOA will make every stupid argument it can. With luck the board might read threads like the 10-page thread and get this sorted out in a responsible way, with all board members and owners alike keeping an eye on the maintenance needs of the road and perhaps the need for insurance because of the road. I do continue to think the HOA corporation might be on pretty good legal ground to ask owners to pay for the maintenance of the road. The legal obligations pertaining to the road might be very much distinct from the covenants.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CindyW6 on 12/26/2022 9:14 AM
@ElleN. We found the following paragraph in a a later Amended Restriction (dated Apr 1996).

"The provisions herein contained are intended to replace all restrictions applicable to (name of subdivision), recorded prior to these restrictions contained herein".
Cindy, probably way more relevant is the fact that FS 712 (from at least 1996 to the present) has always had certain steps that must be taken to prevent extinguishment and reset the 30-year clock. Back in 1996 there are no signs that merely recording this amended restriction complied with the steps given in the 1996 MRTA (FS 712).

From https://www.legalscoopswflre.com/condominium/hoas-your-restrictions-have-an-expiration-date/ (2017): "Merely amending or restating the covenants does not restart the 30-year clock. The statutory process must be followed. For preservation, the Statement of Marketable Title Action provided in Section 712.06, Florida Statutes... "
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CindyW6 on 12/26/2022 2:41 AM
As I stated, I have done extensive research. Read everything on here, including the informative posts & replies with Kevin7 and Gwen6. As a side note, I have tried to use the search function numerous times and does not connect and times out.

The search function here is not great, if you have not done this already, you can use Google to search this site, example:
site:hoatalk.com florida MRTA

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.

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