💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

JonathanT (Colorado)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Our HOA town house community is over 30 years old and dealing with significant increases in water costs for our landscaping, major increases in material costs such as heating, and other petroleum based products such as asphalt, roofing, even fertilizer. Despite our planning and professionally reserve study analysis, nothing has been able to aptly prepare us for the realities today’s ever the ever escalating costs for construction material and labor.

We have several aging systems and landscaping design which are excessively wasteful and most importantly costly. I am interested in finding others who may be facing the same issues who are interested in starting a dialogue to share their experiences, or who are just interested in finding new ways to manage their HOA short and long-term maintenance goals - addressing the issues of rising costs and diminishing resources to sustain their communities today and for the future.

In particular am curious if anyone has had any experience introducing or implementing the idea of real sustainability within their communities - practices such as Permaculture, geothermal heating or retrofitting their existing systems with alternative resources.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
I think that having a realistic view on what the Reserved Fund is supposed to cover and what a special assessment would cover is imperative.

Stategic Planning sessions for your board may help set some goals.

The whole "Green" movement has yet to be proven in terms of how it fits into the HOA management.

PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347
Posted:
JonathanT: Your association will best be served to have a Capital Reserve Study done by a reputable engineering firm, by a pre-determined schedule. Since your community is over 30 yrs. old, we would all hope you had one/some done along the way to prepare you for what repair/maintenance/or new would be necessary in the 30yr timeframe.

Going forward it is imperative that you work with an engineering firm to periodically conduct on-site inspections and present you with their recommendations. They, too, will be able to advise on new resources while staying within your required codes and standards.

hoatalk (California)
Posts: 603
Posted:
Here's an article:
http://www.blueridgenow.com/article/20071208/NEWS/712080344

HOATalk.com, A free service of Community123.com
Provider of Upscale Community Websites
CLICK HERE to get a FREE trial community website
*See legal notice below (end of page)
JonathanT (Colorado)
Posts: 3
Posted:
We have had two professional created reserve studies conducted by two reputable reseve companies in the last 7 years. In each case the reserve studies failed to accuratly predict costs for several significant reserve projects. In the first study a roofing replacement was projected $10,000 to re-roof. The low bid was closer to $40,000. Painting was estimated at $60,000 the low bid was $90,000 before another $10,000 in repairs. Dumpster replacement was estimated at $2,500 our low bide was $4,500. We followed the recommendations of the first reserve study and still had to impose a special assessment and raise our dues beyond what was recommended in the first study. After two attempts at this, I see the reserve study as a good place to start but not the end-all solution it is sometimes promoted as being.

I have done the research, and in Colorado construction costs have escalated close to 100% in just ten years. One of our contractors has told us that their cost for asphalt has risen almost 75% in the last year alone. I can only go by our experience, but we yet to see evidence that a reserve study can adequately prepare us for the on-going costs of HOA maintenance. I still think it is an invaluable tool, but I also see it for what it cannot do.

One person responded to my inquiry with the statement that the green movement has yet to prove itself in HOA management” That’s a good point. Maybe not, but I think it is because it is still in its infancy. I would counter that with my point that the traditional reserve study has yet to prove itself to us thus far.

It is the reason I keep looking for alternative answers to cover the gap. Look, I’m not proposing that our community start erecting windmills or turning our green space into a desert with xeriscaping, but I am suggesting that as the trustees orf our communities we start looking outside the box for our solutions.

We had a month in July where our water bill was $4,000 after the city assessed our water allocation and raised rates along with the rest of the city. Reducing water consumption with re-zoning our antiquated giant green belt irrigation system and looking at alternative measures to improve water retention in our semi-arid climate seem well worth the time and effort.

For example a company we have been looking at Bio Lynceus offers an organic solution to reduce water consumption and fertilizer by adding biodiversity to the soil. For a few hundred dollars they project a 25-50% savings in water usage. In a year where we easily spent 10,000 in water usage, that would equate to be a huge savings. Even if we saw only a modest 10% reduction in water, this would be worth the investment. If anyone is interested, you can read about this product at http://waterefficiency.net/we_0609_getting.html
http://www.biolynceus.com/Soil.htm

I’m not a proponent of this manufacturer I’m just suggesting that if we doing our communities a disservice if we don’t start looking at alternatives such as these to reduce community costs and to help our more traditional vendor/ partners provide products and services that will actually help our communities in ways they haven't been doing before.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
There are alternative landscaping techniques, too. How about gravel and attractive boulders, and drought resistance trees and plants? Watering very 3 days instead of 1?

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Jonathan,
Don't get the impression folks aren't listening to your problems, or don't understand what you are trying to do. Personally, it sounds like you have a broard knowledge about conservation and a large specific knowledge of what your problems are. You will have to admit thrying to give this kind of advice from 3,000 miles doesn't make a lot of sense. I would like to believe you will find a kindred soul that p[osts here and can speak knowledgeable about the technical aspects of these very specific interests. Just like electricity, most people don't care how, they just care if they can have it.
Along with your attempt to try and get a handle on innovations applicable to your complex, I think I would start locally. Another thought is this kind of change is not going to come easy with your members unless they know what you are trying to do. Certainly, you should seek the support of your Board and maybe suggest that you head up a formal group to research this and start an education program to your owners. This alone will be a time consuming difficult task and I agree we all are going to have to make drastic changes in our lives, no doubt about that. And frankly, I see nothing unattractive about putting up a couple wind propellers on the property. Our condo is on an Ocean point and ideal for this kind of power source, and that is coming also. Residents and sales people like to use the word "pristine", a lot. Sounds great until you realize what the word means, but, it sells property. I would venture to say there is not a blade of grass on this island that is pristine.

What I would ask is that you keep us aware of your efforts and post new ideas and solutions you have found. We all are faced with rising costs and "inert" ownership that takes a toll on any association, and I admire your independent thinking and wish you and folks like you that are willing to face the future, much success.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Our condo complex has changed out interior incandescent light bulbs with the new neon twist bulbs for a significant savings in both electricity usage and labor to have the maintenance guy always replacing bulbs. Outdoors we have replaced floodlights with mercury-vapor lights for the same effect plus the new style fixtures are more stylish and provide better lighting.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
GlenL,
Smart thing to do. We have over 300 outside lights throughtout our complex. We changed several years ago to 9 watt fluorescents or even some places 5 watt. These lights don't have a ballast in them like the twist type. The ballast is seperate and the initial cost is around 8$ but the bulbs only cost about $2.50 to replace and some will last 4 or 5 years of continuous use in our garage. The others are on photocell circuits. We found we had to add some more lights but in the long run, we saved a lot of money. It is still expensive to maintain and I personally did it for more than ten years but I am retired again, now spend my time watching what is going on and providing the requisite thron in the Boards side.
JeffW4 (Washington)
Posts: 2
Posted:
Has anbody looked into Smart Irrigation Controllers? HOA's through out CA, WA and other parts of the US have used these devices to reduce landscape water usage 30-300%, reduced water run off by 90% and increased the overall health of the landscape by 100%.
GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022
Posted:
JonathanT - You have a leg up on many associations in thinking about and researching alternatives to the traditional methods of HOA infrastructure for sustainability, and cost reduction. The
most useful, and more concrete aspect of the Reserve studies to me have always been the estimated useful life-cycle of the elements that need to be replaced. I too have found discrepancies in what the Reserve Specialist recommends for estimated cost of replacement compared to the invoiced cost upon project completion. Wonder if your Reserve cost of $10,000 for the roofs was an apples to apples to what was being included in the $40,000 bid you received? Was the $10,000 for an overlay of roof shingles, whereas the $40,000 was for removal of existing shingles, repair of anything sheathing deficiencies and re-shingling? The only thing a Board can do to offset some of the inflation costs is to invest the Reserve fund transfers in the most aggressive fixed rate CDs, or accounts. My Reserve studies did not calculate inflation and stated so. It's up to the Board to figure what it can bear in Reserve fund transfers from existing maintenance fees to compensate. Another method to explore is instituting a one-time fee due to the HOA upon the close of every unit. My HOA has one that can go to working capital, or any other use the Board currently funds for.
JosephW (Michigan)
Posts: 882
Posted:
A good article from Nevada:

"Just trust me" is a phrase that automatically sends up red flags, whether it's muttered by a boy trying to get into a girl's knickers, a government agent about to indulge in some serious deceit or just your ordinary con man.

But when the words fall from the lips of Monte Fletcher, not only do they sound sincere, they are sincere.

In 1999, Monte went to the other homeowners in Sunrise Villas 6 and said he'd like to replace some of the complex's grass with landscaping more suitable to the desert. "I said: Just trust me."

And they did.

"Now they tell me they love it, they like it better than the grass," Monte said.

The homeowners were getting a two-for-one package. He was president of the homeowners' association, but the retired teacher is also a horticulturist. Having Monte on the association board would be like having the Review-Journal's Linn Mills on your board, or KNPR's Norm Schilling, someone who not only loves what he's doing but knows what he's doing. (Option B: Someone like me who killed her winter pansies in two weeks.)

Monte started cautiously.

He got permission to raise dues by $20 a month to fund a long-range conversion project for the 62-unit complex covering 14 acres. Sunrise Villas 6, built 30 years ago, is one of nine small, gated communities known for their lush grass and landscaping.

First, he removed about a 15-foot-wide band of grass inside the perimeter of the complex near McLeod Drive and Flamingo Road, and replaced the grass with rocks and drought-tolerant plants and trees.

And in a desert town where many still feel a sense of entitlement to grass, despite a drought that started in 2000, and despite the fact that grass is the biggest water user in Southern Nevada, Monte hasn't received one complaint about his evolutionary, even revolutionary ongoing effort to remove 90 percent of the grass.

After the perimeter changeover, he started easing out the grass in vast areas on the sides of homes and around the two pools, leaving grass in the front of the homes. With his own eye for design, and by working with individual homeowners, he's made people happy with the gradual change.

Vast expanses of grass were replaced with rocks and plants (lots of lantana, one of the few plants I can keep alive.) Too vast? No, because working with Flagg's Landscaping, Monte created islands in the expanses, islands with plants offering height and color.

Ivy is going out, sago palms are going in. Diseased purple plum trees dying from a bacteria moving across the valley are being removed, replaced by live oaks.

"Everywhere I could put a tree, I put a tree." He points to tall pines along the perimeter, which started out as five-gallon-size trees.

Now 75, he's a man ahead of his time, whose foresight will end up saving the association money while the rest of us are still watering grassy knolls and talking about desert landscaping.

Monte hasn't calculated how much of a cost-savings there will be with paying for less water because he's thinking about long-term savings. He has no doubt water is going to become even more expensive.

Southern Nevada Water Authority spokesman Scott Huntley confirmed that prediction Wednesday, predicting another "substantial increase" in water rates is likely to go into effect around next March.

Since the water authority began its program in 1999 to encourage Las Vegans through rebates to replace grass with water-conserving landscaping, 93 million square feet of grass in the valley has been removed, Huntley said. "Enough turf has been removed so that an 18-inch-wide turf roll would stretch almost halfway around the world at the equator," Huntley said. The authority has paid out $85 million as incentives to remove grass. The estimated savings is 5.2 billion gallons of water a year.

We've all heard about homeowner association board members who are nitpicking, rude and arrogant. How about giving credit to Monte Fletcher, a planner with a plan, the association president who worked countless hours over the past nine years to make his community better and save water.

You might want to look at some of the things Highland Ranch is doing in CO: http://www.highlandsranch.org/06_wsan/06_wsan_home.html

I'll seeif I can track down a few more:

Joe

Joseph West
Official HOATalk.com Sponsor
Community Associations Network, LLC
www.CommunityAssociations.net

*See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal
AB3 (Arizona)
Posts: 44
Posted:
I could be way off track here but as I understand from articles I have read this could explain why your reserve study is so far off. As I understand correctly some reserve studies done aren't done taking into consideration removal of the old structure or materials. It only takes into account the materials used to build or replace the structure. Therefore, if you look at the break down of the costs the materials and labor to install should come close to your reserve study. Removal of the materials being replaced are extras. You also have to take into consideration a reserve study can't predict what the war has done to our economy. Until things bounce back you may want to have a reserve study done yearly.

As far as irrigation problems with an aging community. I completely understand what you are going thru. We have the exact same problems. I was thinking of trying out some of those grass samples that are supposed to grow well in the hot hot summer as well as in the shade. They are also supposed to grow very deep roots allowing them to use water from deep underground allowing you to reduce your watering to only 2 or 3 times a week. There are many diffrent hybrds of turf grass that have come onto the market in the last few years. I have also contacted a few companies that have installed the diffrent grass on golf courses which couldn't offer me any advice.

This may be a dumb suggestion but you could redesign your landscaping to cover the areas your not happy about. It may be cheaper in the long run to redesign your landscaping. By design I just mean if your having a problem in an area where the trees prevent sunlight causing the grass to die. If the area isn't too large you could design a border around the area with brick or whatever then plant a vine type ground cover that doesn't need much water or sun.

Please keep us posted on what works and doesn't. Our association is in the same boat. Our water inceased by 10K last year.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Google: Grass, salt tolerant

Lots of stuff about all kinds of grasses.

As an aside: To me, I find it much more productive to Google your interest rather than Googling the companies, such as:

Don't look up Companies selling grass, look up: Grass, Golf courses, or lawns or this above, Salt tolerant. Which brings up a specific salt tolerant grass developed for courses using water with high salt content (recycled)) or grass effects by salt spray and low water requirements.
GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022
Posted:
AB3 - I don't think your off track, I think you hit upon something extremely significant. Kind of like that old story where the truck gets stuck in the tunnel, and everyone is sitting around scratching their heads trying to figure out how to get it out. Along comes someone that says, "why not just let the air out of tires". So...very well done AB3!!

Can you provide a link or reference to the articles you've read regarding the reserve study not factoring the cost of removal of the old structure/element?

Some reserve studies do not factor inflation into the projected expense either. I feel the associations should try over time to get bids for each replacement project, separate from the reserve study and request the cost of removal of the old element be listed as a separate line item in the bid. This would then give the association board the ability to see how much extra they may need to transfer to reserves or how much extra they may need from other budgetary accounts.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here