License Plate Reader Cameras for HOA security, Able to track all cars in and out

So our HOA just had a survey (only about 30% actually bothered to fill it out) and apparently (13 people) less than 10% of total owners have voted that the most important thing to spend money on was security cameras. Over the last year I think there were a hand-full of things stolen from inside cars, one burglary and one assault.

These license plate reader (LPR) cameras are about $700 each we would need 3, and one of the board members can mount them to a pole. One also needs a $150 regular camera to capture the entire vehicle's image. Internet is $50 a month and a couple Wi-Fi extenders will add $300 to the cost. Total price around $3000 plus the monthly internet to protect mostly people that were too lazy to lock their car?

Then again, I read about crazy people killing each other all the time, like those poor college students in Idaho, and I bet that neighborhood wish they had LPR cameras.

Any one use this technology?. There is a company that rents their solar/cellular powered cameras for $2000/camera per year. The video's i have seen show them mounted to a skinny pole and easy for thieves to knock over or destroy.
Luckily we have power and internet where they are needed.

I know systems like these used to cost a lot more. Now that the price is a "bit" lower are they worth it? Are bad guys actually caught. Or do the police simply say, that's a nice car photo, how the hell is a grand jury gonna convict the guy just cause he was driving through your hoa?

There are even youtube videos showing how to use free software to run LPR data bases using $250 cameras.
, but I don't want to become a security camera expert to set that up.

In my state, Washington, there are a number of problems with this technology:

1. The police don't respond to "petty" crime which generally is property crimes with less than $1,000 damage and/or theft.
2. If the police do respond, the jails won't accept the criminals because the jails are full of serious criminals
3. If the jails actually take the criminals, prosecutors won't file charges against them because they are probably stealing for self-existence which apparently is acceptable
4. If the prosecutors actually file charges, judges and/or juries will find some excuse to not find the criminals guilty of the charges.

Thus, I see it pointless for our community to install automated license plate readers.

Just because you're in a gated community, that really doesn't make you any safer than anyone else. In fact it can be argued that the gated community is great for keeping all the crazies in one spot.

Anyway, your answer is in your first and second paragraphs. You seemed concerned about the cost and wonder why bother since it's clear most homeowners don't care and you've only had a few break-ins anyway. That's where I'd leave it. If a major problem develops down the road, take it up at that time.

You can still put periodic reminders on your website and/or newsletter about keeping garage doors closed if no one's in them, locking the car, keeping valuables out of sight, etc. As you noted, some people got got because they didn't do these things. You can't always protect people from themselves- every now and then HOA residents have to use their own common sense (assuming they have some).

Understand security cameras when they don't work as a deterent by posting they are being used, are just CATCHING THE CRIME! Unless a criminal mind goes "Hey there is a sign and a visible camera, I won't commit a crime there" they aren't worth more than possible evidence. Plus need to know who owns the footage and the process of getting it. Will it be up to the HOA to prosecute or the individual whom the crime is committed against?

A few years ago, a supervisor gave a lift home to one of their employees. On the way home they stopped by the ATM. A few weeks later their ATM card was stolen. It was used at their bank. There was video of the person using it at the ATM. They hid their face but stupidly was wearing the company shirt with it's name on it. This person took an additional step, and went to the bank to get the video before the Supervisor/victim could. They were arrested and fired shortly there after.

However, it should be noted that they tried to get a copy of the video survilliance tape. Would your HOA have a process in place to make sure the right people get the copy? It's not necessarily a thing you just hand over to the police. The police can only make charges They can't take them away. That is the court part. Which is where any video caught would be used.

I would ask to get with your local police on how they would handle these crimes. Find out from a lawyer what the process should be and the HOA role in it. It is simple to put a camera up. It's not simple what happens next when it comes to the legal system...

Why in the world would any Board even consider this based on the wants of less than 10% of the community?

Be careful with lowering assessments- yes, its popular, but it may not be a good idea because you never know what 2023 will come up with. I seem to recall you had a question about reserves, but have you and your board colleagues taken a hard look at your most recent study and compared that with the budget to see how close you're following its recommendations? Even if you don't have a lot of common area, you still need to manage and plan for what you do have.

I know you've also had questions about your property management expenses, but that shouldn't be the only budget item you're looking at. Who's looking at the last 3 to 5 years of income/expense reports to see which line items have risen faster and figured out why? Are you reviewing other vendors and theircontra to to see if you're getting the biggest bang for your buck? Whats going on with tge association master insurance.

All of this IS more work, but that's how you make informed decisions on next year's budget and explain it to the homeowners. You can always leave next year's assessments at the current rate

As for the license plate reader system, I wouldn't waste any more time on that because homeowner interest doesn't seem to warrant further review. If someone really wants it, let them go around the community, persuade their neighbors and then they can all approach the board. I'd also have them do the research- let them run the numbers and convince everyone why it's a good idea.

I agree 13 people wanting something is not very convincing. Neither is 20% of the community saying we should change the rules to allow above ground swimming pools. In fact the only survey question that had overwhelming support 90% or more was to require board of directors to sign conflict of interest ethics contract.

If I were to logically look at the past 2 surveys I would conclude that the vast majority do not care about how the neighborhood is run and the Board should focus on reducing not expanding amenities and thus reducing dues.

the problem is we will never had a complete set of data on what the community wants and have to guess what they want. Past boards have spent a lot of money based on the wants of a small group of people. they never took any surveys or tried to determine what people wanted, they never had public board meetings, they did what they wanted.

so what would you do with an apathetic membership and their money? reduce dues? I'm open to that, not sure if othehr 2 board members are.

Having your owners fill out a survey is not a vote and the issue of adding a new amenity is much different than capital improvements.

License plate readers don't create videos. Rather, they scan the license plates and search a national database for stolen cars, and if a stolen car enters a neighborhood, the police are contacted who can then send out a patrol car and arrest the person that is operating the stolen vehicle. A lot of property crime is committed by people operating stolen cars, so it is an effective way to keep crime in check if your police department is willing to cooperate.

No videos are made and homeowners can opt in to have their license plates not captured by the ALPR, so no records are made of homeowner vehicles who take the time to opt out.

I think it's nifty technology and it eliminates a lot of problems that are created by video cameras. It is well done and well suited for homeowner associations. However, there is a bit of "big brother" element regarding a camera that captures license plates and I am not quite comfortable with promoting them for our community. And as stated above, I am not sure if the police would care to respond to automated alerts. If the police are not on board, the technology is no good.

There is a company that advertises the ALPR cameras (that look at a database and call police to respond) marketed to HOAs. All of the data processing is done by the operator of the camera, which is the camera vendor and not the HOA.

I don't know how popular they are but they are marketed to HOAs.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

If we took the survey and made it into a vote the results would be about the same. Yes I understand the legal difference.

The LPR cameras can be cloud based where they need to be hooked up to the internet for servers to extract the license plate number but they can also be locally based where all the data is captured and processed in the camera and stored on a micro SD card. they can be set to capture video or stills and there are several ways to set up a system. It can get complicated, and I could set them up and run the wireless bridge and adjust the shutter speed gain, exposure, etc and get it done for such a small amount of money no one would raise much of a fuss, but honestly I doubt anyone would help me do it and I dont' have time for it.

so that means farming it out and it costing 3x the price.

Thanks for links totally agree policy needs to be made

I would also inform the membership (via newsletter/email blast) that, based on survey results, the Board is considering installing license plate readers and to please contact the board with any support or concerns about this consideration.

See what feedback you get.
Might save you a lot of grief vs. simply telling the membership they are installed.

Any concerns can be addressed by replying:

Thank you for your concerns. No decision has been made by board yet and we will take your concerns under advisement.

good advice. thanks.

I agree.

We do have security cameras at each of our gates (we have 3 entry and 3 exit unmanned gates) in our community. We capture license plates and driver faces and our new cameras have "night vision" in color so they are very clear. No one monitors these cameras on a regular basis, but the footage does come in handy when we have an incident and need to see who has come in. We have very low crime, but usually we look it up when someone has hit the gate and caused damage. We also have used the footage to give to our local sheriff if there has been a crime in the neighborhood. Only the PM has regular access to the database but a board member could ask and look if necessary.

The biggest issue, if you decide to install the cameras, is the user friendliness of the software. There is one big Chinese company that has cameras that are used widely in the industry, but the database is ridiculously difficult to use. You probably won't need to look at it often, but when you do you want it to be easy to find a specific time and not scroll for hours.

We just spent $60,000 on new camera systems at our gates and clubhouses and we have very strong support from our homeowners. In reality, the gates don't do much other than traffic control because we have little control over residents handing out their cards or transponders or letting people in remotely. And the security cameras don't deter anyone. But the illusion of security makes it all very popular and the residents don't mind paying for it.