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JohnM104 (New Hampshire)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Our HOA is comprised of three buildings. The newer building have sprinklers due to the change in the code. The older building do not. They are four story buildings. The HOA board is considering forcing owners to retrofit sprinklers in the other two buildings. Many owners are against this since some of first floor units and it will be unsightly to look at and possibly depreciate the value of the condo. Some owners are complaining about the cost which will be about $7,000 per owner. Many owners rather see the money spent elsewhere since the BOD has not kept the common areas up to date. We will also have other expenses down the road including windows and doors. The main reason for the passage is more insurance options to save 5-10%. It will take about 30 years to recoup the expense paid for the sprinklers.

Many owners have stated that they will not install the sprinklers if the HOA passes it even if they have to pay the fee since they do not want to look at sprinkler heads etc. Can the HOA force owners to install sprinklers in their units? The sprinklers are not being installed through the walls but will run along the walls, ceilings in every room.

I know that sprinklers are safer and can protects lives and property so no need to make that point.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Are the older condos going to be grandfathered in or are they mandated to bring the condos up to current code?
If they are being grandfathered in, I would not install them. Honestly it will be a logistical CF. You will need space in a utility room
for all the sprinkler equipment. I don't see owners giving up coveted closet space in their unit for sprinkler pumps etc.

WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnM104 on 12/02/2022 6:22 AM
Our HOA is comprised of three buildings. The newer building have sprinklers due to the change in the code. The older building do not. They are four story buildings. The HOA board is considering forcing owners to retrofit sprinklers in the other two buildings. Many owners are against this since some of first floor units and it will be unsightly to look at and possibly depreciate the value of the condo. Some owners are complaining about the cost which will be about $7,000 per owner. Many owners rather see the money spent elsewhere since the BOD has not kept the common areas up to date. We will also have other expenses down the road including windows and doors. The main reason for the passage is more insurance options to save 5-10%. It will take about 30 years to recoup the expense paid for the sprinklers.

Many owners have stated that they will not install the sprinklers if the HOA passes it even if they have to pay the fee since they do not want to look at sprinkler heads etc. Can the HOA force owners to install sprinklers in their units? The sprinklers are not being installed through the walls but will run along the walls, ceilings in every room.

I know that sprinklers are safer and can protects lives and property so no need to make that point.

I'll make it anyways. safety is more important than aesthetics. also local city codes trump aesthetics and you may be forced by the city to do it latter on anyways.
to answer your other questions you will need to post your bylaws and see what they say.

Most fires happen in the kitchen. Seems that's where they should focus their energies. There are various soffits that disguise the look of a pipe and simply painting the pipe the same color as the building makes it much less apparent.
sprinkler sofit hides pipe
more likely to appreciate the value of the condo IMHO.

Insurannce can go down a lot more than 5-10% as well.

vis ta vie
JohnM104 (New Hampshire)
Posts: 4
Posted:
There are no local or state requirements to install sprinklers. This is just a BOD member with his own agenda.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnM104 on 12/02/2022 7:07 AM
There are no local or state requirements to install sprinklers. This is just a BOD member with his own agenda.

join the board and oppose the measure then or read the bylaws to see if it is even in their realm of powers, wouldnt' be surprised if it was or if it wasn't.

vis ta vie
JohnM104 (New Hampshire)
Posts: 4
Posted:
I previously served 4 years on the BOD. I have done my time. It is time for new owners to step up without their own agendas. Unfortunately, most of the current BOD are unqualified.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnM104 on 12/02/2022 7:07 AM
There are no local or state requirements to install sprinklers. This is just a BOD member with his own agenda.

Then ignore him or replace him.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
It sounds like these are condos: multi-unit buildings with the buildings' structural components being common elements (eg.foundations, roofs, framing, plumbing and electrical lines that serve multiple units).

If so, a sprinkler system will probably be all or partly a common element, meaning it's the association's responsibility to install and maintain. This will be an expensive job, especially if the association also has to bear the cost of repairs to parts of the individual units as well (not clear at this point). Building a new building with a sprinkler system already installed is a very different proposition from retrofitting one into an older structure. And It will very likely require a special assessment to pay for it. I expect sticker shock will get everyone to see reason.

In addition, such a significant upgrade will almost certainly require homeowner approval, and it sounds like you don't have the necessary votes. The only way to override this would have been an emergency situation of some sort, but it doesn't sound like that's the case. If the buildings without sprinkler systems were truly fire hazards, you'd hear about it - from the association's insurer at he very least.

(My community has some condo buildings with sprinkler systems and others without. Some of this is due to a code change and some of it due to the structure of buildings themselves. There is no issue with insurance. Building codes change pretty frequently, and they don't require people to go back and bring things up to current code unless and until they're renovating their property.)

BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217
Posted:
John

One of our condominium clients (Dallas, TX) has fire sprinklers. They were installed as the buildings were constructed and are not unsightly, the heads are covered by small circular disks which are close to unnoticeable unless one is fond of staring at the ceiling. The pipes are concealed in the ceilings. The property is 2 buildings, each unit has 2 or 3 levels covered by sprinklers.

My experiences and thoughts:

1. The systems (each building is separate) must be monitored for water flow in the system 24x7x365 by an off-site monitoring company at a monthly charge of close to $100.00 each. The monitoring is necessary as actual water flow indicates a fire or leak, either of which must be dealt with immediately.

2. The electronics of the systems require annual inspections and testing at a charge of over $300 for both, the Fire Marshall inspects the 'plumbing', also at a charge.

3. The electronics trigger false alarms on an average of 3-4 times annually. Each false alarm requires a technician must test the electronics on the premises, again at a charge for the inspection, as well as the repairs if needed. Geckos are particularly fond of the material used in some of the components.

4. You are in a cold climate, as are we, although not as severe. The cabinets which contain the equipment must be heated, the cabinets in this climate are heated by thermostatically controlled electric space heaters. Dallas temperatures routinely drop below freezing at night from about now through March at least 15-20 nights each month. We also sometimes go a week or ten days below freezing 24x7. The cost of running the heaters is not inconsiderable.

5. We have managed the property since early 2017. There has not been a single legitimate system alarm for a fire or leak in 6 years.

6. The insurance for this property is not reduced due to the presence of the sprinkler system.

The annual overhead for monitoring, maintenance, and electricity has reached the point where the president of the Association is investigating what Building Code and Fire Marshal approvals are necessary to disable the system. Also, owner approval may be required, as described below.

Finally, the sprinkler system should be classified a common element. That being the case, your governing documents may stipulate the percentage of owners who must approve changes to the common elements, including the installation of a new element. Before your Board spends a lot of time and money on this quest, the Board should determine if owner approval is required. If it is, it does not sound like this project has much chance of being approved.
JohnM104 (New Hampshire)
Posts: 4
Posted:
According to the BOD, the reasoning for the sprinkler proposal is for insurance savings. The value of the complex increased and is in excess of 25 million. The BOD deals with small local insurance broker, who could only find one company to write the insurance. Unfortunately, the BOD did not have others provide quotes. I have no idea, why. According to my broker, over 25 million is a different threshold and some companies do not write policies over 25 million. He suggested that we try a surplus broker.

The BOD is claiming that sprinklers will save $60k per year. The broker at the annual meeting estimated a 5 % savings when the premium was $120K. The new premium is now $220K. A rough estimate to retrofit sprinklers is 600K. The BOD got one quote last year. They should get a few quotes.

I strongly doubt a 60k saving per year and a 5% seems more realistic. The BOD has zero documentation to proof their ballpark number or any number.

Good point about the sprinklers changing the common elements. I will have to review the condo docs and bylaws.

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