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JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344
Posted:
Need help interpretting one of our usage-regulations.

Another big controversy in our HOA in NH regarding the use of Ebikes and whether or not our current usage-regulation prohibits there usage.

Givens.

. Ebikes are NOT ATV's
. Ebikes ARE two wheeled vehicles

Here is the usage regulation is question.

My interpretation of the statement in bold below is that it is limited to ATV's and since Ebikes are NOT ATV's they aren't prohibited. Am I right or wrong?

. Use Regulation #3

Motorcycles with fully operational muffler systems are allowed in the Park for ingress and egress only at the discretion of the Manager. Other motorcycles, mopeds, minibikes and other two-, three- or four-wheeled motorized vehicles(ATV's), except those specifically designed for the handicapped , may not be operated within the confines of the Campground.

Thanks
John Cummings
MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462
Posted:
I did a quick search and see that NH has rules that define the difference between a motorized bike and an electric assisted bike. I think you would be on solid ground if you adopted the NH definition and went off of that.

Basically, lightweight motorized bikes with little motors are considered bikes, and ones with big motors are considered motorcyles/atvs.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Per what you posted, I would say technically they would be prohibited.

This is one of those regulations where the technology changes and the rules/restrictions didn't get updated.

Personally, since most e-bikes in class 1,2 or 3 don't make a lot of noise I think amending the restriction to allow those classes of ebikes would be acceptable to most.

The way the regulation is currently written - it would technically prohibit the ebikes (and, any electric toy cars for children).
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
What are "minibikes?"

I'd agree with Tim and think that Ebikes are prohibited. What does NH say since you're actually in that state?

I'll say that in our urban/resort neighborhood that belies & scooters are a menace since they do often do not follow the rules to stay on the streets and go too fast on sidewalks (tho' not permitted on them).

WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Motorcycles with fully operational muffler systems are allowed in the Park for ingress and egress only at the discretion of the Manager. Other motorcycles, blah blah blah may not be operated within the confines of the Campground.

obviously written by a drunk lawyer. motorcycles are allowed sentence followed by they are not allowed,WTF???

vis ta vie
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I looked up minibikes. To correct one of my many typos, in my part of my city, ebikes are not allowed on the sidewalks, but the law isn't well-enforced.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
I also looked up minibikes, they are a mini version of a motorcycle and has nothing in common with a e-bike.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Who said mini bikes have anything in common with ebikes, Max?
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 11/28/2022 11:47 AM
Who said mini bikes have anything in common with ebikes, Max?

You and a few others have said that you agree with Tim and that e-bikes should be prohibited. Based on what?
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 11/28/2022 11:47 AM
Who said mini bikes have anything in common with ebikes, Max?

You did know that it can be ridden just like an ordinary bike, you know peddle?
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaxB4 on 11/28/2022 11:58 AM
Posted By KerryL1 on 11/28/2022 11:47 AM
Who said mini bikes have anything in common with ebikes, Max?


You and a few others have said that you agree with Tim and that e-bikes should be prohibited. Based on what?

I wondered the same thing. These bikes are dead silent. What exactly is the issue?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Look, Max, I see ebikes very day in my urban neighborhood. Both they and scooters can be used without artificial power. What in the world is your post?
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
The regulation is outdated, without clear applicability to an E-bike, and so now, ambiguous. I say E-bikes are allowed.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 11/28/2022 12:19 PM
Look, Max, I see ebikes very day in my urban neighborhood. Both they and scooters can be used without artificial power. What in the world is your post?

You stated they should be prohibited, why?
DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posted:
I believe the parenthetical “ATVs” clarifies that the “other” means ATV’s and not eBikes.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaxB4 on 11/28/2022 12:42 PM
Posted By KerryL1 on 11/28/2022 12:19 PM
Look, Max, I see ebikes very day in my urban neighborhood. Both they and scooters can be used without artificial power. What in the world is your post?


You stated they should be prohibited, why?

Not Prohibited, regulated just like an ICE "motor" vehicle.
Those Ebikes can go upwards 35 Mph they can do some serious damage.
I even see those razor scooters with electric motors doing 35mph.

To the OP, until your states legislature catches up to this craze
let Darwin, insurance carries and lawyers duke it out.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Their speed and that riders almost alway use the the E-power make them dangerous. It's not nice that's the issue, it's speed and danger to others.
MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462
Posted:
There is good information on Mass laws on ebikes here

https://www.massbike.org/ebikes
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
you have a campground as part of your HOA? how cool is that?
ATV's are vechicles with 4, 3 or 2 wheels that are big and fat. like 8" wide tires.
ATV's are not ebikes. This rule was obviously written before ebikes became popular and therefore any anti ebike folks are trying to use it to ban ebikes.


vis ta vie
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
I have a membership in an RV campground, though not an HOA. They allow e-Bikes, but more importantly, they have have a speed limit that is enforced. My wife and I both have 4 wheel quads that could not be used in the campground because of noise, so we take them out when we go boondocking.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LetA on 11/28/2022 3:18 PM
Posted By MaxB4 on 11/28/2022 12:42 PM
Posted By KerryL1 on 11/28/2022 12:19 PM
Look, Max, I see ebikes very day in my urban neighborhood. Both they and scooters can be used without artificial power. What in the world is your post?


You stated they should be prohibited, why?


Not Prohibited, regulated just like an ICE "motor" vehicle.
Those Ebikes can go upwards 35 Mph they can do some serious damage.
I even see those razor scooters with electric motors doing 35mph.

To the OP, until your states legislature catches up to this craze
let Darwin, insurance carries and lawyers duke it out.

Top speed on an e-bike is 28 MPH
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Here are USA Electric Bike Laws and Regulations By State

https://www.hovsco.com/blogs/blogs/electric-bike-laws-and-regulations-by-state?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=18973295194&gclid=Cj0KCQiA1ZGcBhCoARIsAGQ0kkpMVHoYlGmsXu6Wnj7XQCbYycLBb_7yx3P5k_fTXBbzM2HIe9VKdAwaAmfAEALw_wcB
JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344
Posted:
Thanks Michael,

Yes, I had previously looked that up also. NH does classify ebikes as bikes, but never the less, we have controversy at our HOA. shocker.

I'm not interested in getting one, but certainly not against them as they help someone that may have limitations get around.

Thanks
John
JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344
Posted:
Thanks Tim!

You have interpretted this the same as our BOD. We did try to amend the rule at our annual meeting in Sept, but it narrowly failed as it requires 3/4 of the vote to pass.

Yes, and big-wheel toys are also prohibited.

I agree, the rule was put in place before the ebike technology even existed.

Thanks
John
JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344
Posted:
Thanks Wendy!

I didn't write them - lol.

I have a motorcycle, but not sure if the muffler is properly working or not.

John
JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnT38 on 11/28/2022 12:16 PM
Posted By MaxB4 on 11/28/2022 11:58 AM
Posted By KerryL1 on 11/28/2022 11:47 AM
Who said mini bikes have anything in common with ebikes, Max?


You and a few others have said that you agree with Tim and that e-bikes should be prohibited. Based on what?


I wondered the same thing. These bikes are dead silent. What exactly is the issue?

What exactly is the issue? HOA living I guess. Ebikes are harmless and help those that may have physical limitations. I'm all for them.

Unfortunatly those that like to make everything an issue are saying Ebikes are not allowed.

The good news is that several owners have them and you can't tell the difference between an Ebike and a bike, unless you are looking.

John
JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidG45 on 11/28/2022 2:39 PM
I believe the parenthetical “ATVs” clarifies that the “other” means ATV’s and not eBikes.

That was the part that I was hung up on. Wasn't sure what the point of (ATV's) in the ruling. After I posted I was told that is essentially a throw away.

Thanks
John
JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WendyM5 on 11/28/2022 5:02 PM
you have a campground as part of your HOA? how cool is that?
ATV's are vechicles with 4, 3 or 2 wheels that are big and fat. like 8" wide tires.
ATV's are not ebikes. This rule was obviously written before ebikes became popular and therefore any anti ebike folks are trying to use it to ban ebikes.


The campground is the HOA. Condo Campground on a lake in NH. It is seasonal, so not permanent homes.

Thanks
John
JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344
Posted:
Thanks everyone for the responses.

The HOA is in NH, not Mass. I'm from Mass. The HOA is a seasonal summer resort.

So, I can't use an Ebike and children can't use Big-Wheels, but the good news is that I can get an "8-wheel" ATV as the rule states that only 2,3 and 4 wheeled motorized(atv's) vehicles are prohibited.

Not sure why everything is so controversal it our HOA, but that is how we roll.

Good news is that since the rule is a tad ambiguous a few owners already ride around on ebikes.

We have a 10MPH speed limit in the park, so the top end speed of an Ebike isn't really an issue. Of course enforcing the 10 MPH speed limit is.

Thanks
John
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC73 on 11/30/2022 12:55 PM
Thanks everyone for the responses.

The HOA is in NH, not Mass. I'm from Mass. The HOA is a seasonal summer resort.

So, I can't use an Ebike and children can't use Big-Wheels, but the good news is that I can get an "8-wheel" ATV as the rule states that only 2,3 and 4 wheeled motorized(atv's) vehicles are prohibited.

Not sure why everything is so controversal it our HOA, but that is how we roll.

Good news is that since the rule is a tad ambiguous a few owners already ride around on ebikes.

We have a 10MPH speed limit in the park, so the top end speed of an Ebike isn't really an issue. Of course enforcing the 10 MPH speed limit is.

Thanks
John

dont' forget about unicycles! lol. sorry your hoa has drama makers.

vis ta vie
JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WendyM5 on 11/30/2022 1:17 PM
Posted By JohnC73 on 11/30/2022 12:55 PM
Thanks everyone for the responses.

The HOA is in NH, not Mass. I'm from Mass. The HOA is a seasonal summer resort.

So, I can't use an Ebike and children can't use Big-Wheels, but the good news is that I can get an "8-wheel" ATV as the rule states that only 2,3 and 4 wheeled motorized(atv's) vehicles are prohibited.

Not sure why everything is so controversal it our HOA, but that is how we roll.

Good news is that since the rule is a tad ambiguous a few owners already ride around on ebikes.

We have a 10MPH speed limit in the park, so the top end speed of an Ebike isn't really an issue. Of course enforcing the 10 MPH speed limit is.

Thanks
John


dont' forget about unicycles! lol. sorry your hoa has drama makers.

Thanks,

That is funny! I've might get a 1-wheel skate board.! When I was much younger I was very good at riding a unicycle!

Lol

John
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
ebikes and motorized scooters can easily go 60-75mph now. I regularly see kids passing cars going 35 mph in the breakdown lanes of busy roads. if you are concerned about people getting hit by a motorized machine on trails or sidewalks, simply prohibit all motorized devices in those areas. Of couse disability related devices would be excluded from the rules.
JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 12/12/2022 6:36 AM
ebikes and motorized scooters can easily go 60-75mph now. I regularly see kids passing cars going 35 mph in the breakdown lanes of busy roads. if you are concerned about people getting hit by a motorized machine on trails or sidewalks, simply prohibit all motorized devices in those areas. Of couse disability related devices would be excluded from the rules.

Thanks Steve,

We have speed limit runs for all traffic, cars, bikes and anything else, but these rules are frequently broken and difficult to enforce. I get it, why add fuel to the fire.

I personally don't want an ebike, but submitted the question on behave of owners that would like them. The owners wanting the ebikes have physical limitations and this would make them more mobile.

Thanks
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 12/12/2022 6:36 AM
ebikes and motorized scooters can easily go 60-75mph now. I regularly see kids passing cars going 35 mph in the breakdown lanes of busy roads. if you are concerned about people getting hit by a motorized machine on trails or sidewalks, simply prohibit all motorized devices in those areas. Of couse disability related devices would be excluded from the rules.

60-75, better do some more research. I am looking to buy for my wife and I and the max speed, thank god, is 28 mph.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:

Quote:
60-75, better do some more research. I am looking to buy for my wife and I and the max speed, thank god, is 28 mph.



You are a special kind of special human. Insulting me that I dont know what im talking about and insisting they dont exist because you have not seem them.

I shall help you out..... goto youtube and type in "fastest ebike" you will see some that can go over 90mph, still have pedals, and still considered an ebike. For a bonus, look for "fastest electric scooters" and you see some that exceed 100mph.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
= The owners wanting the ebikes have physical limitations and this would make them more mobile.



Well if everyone is going to start to pull the disabled excuse, maybe set a speed limit to everything at 5mph. You can ride it per ADA law, but the law doesnt permit you to ride fast and endanger others.

There has been elderly people injured and killed by speeding ebikes who were simply out for a walk. Its such a concern in the UK, the police setup radar on sidewalks and ticket people on scooters and ebikes. $200 fine.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 12/12/2022 10:32 AM

60-75, better do some more research. I am looking to buy for my wife and I and the max speed, thank god, is 28 mph.




You are a special kind of special human. Insulting me that I dont know what im talking about and insisting they dont exist because you have not seem them.

I shall help you out..... goto youtube and type in "fastest ebike" you will see some that can go over 90mph, still have pedals, and still considered an ebike. For a bonus, look for "fastest electric scooters" and you see some that exceed 100mph.

So, by your reasoning, a HOA should ban all vehicles that can exceed the posted speed limit. This is precisely why I don't live in an HOA.
JohnC73 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 344
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 12/12/2022 10:36 AM
= The owners wanting the ebikes have physical limitations and this would make them more mobile.



Well if everyone is going to start to pull the disabled excuse, maybe set a speed limit to everything at 5mph. You can ride it per ADA law, but the law doesnt permit you to ride fast and endanger others.

There has been elderly people injured and killed by speeding ebikes who were simply out for a walk. Its such a concern in the UK, the police setup radar on sidewalks and ticket people on scooters and ebikes. $200 fine.

Thanks,

I'm more worried about the boaters coming off of the lake that may have gotten a bad ice cube or two then towing there boats through the park.

John

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