MarkB28 (New York)
Posts: 40
Posts: 40
Posted:
What more does the HOA Board need beside a printout of the Accounts Receivable page to show the Judge that a certain homeowner didn't pay their HOA dues?
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Unpaid HOA dues, going to small claims court
Started by MarkB28 • 16 replies • 563 views
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MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
#1 you do not go to court for unpaid dues. That is not the best approach. Your best approach is to place a lien on the property for the UNPAID dues. This is another form of a "judgement". However, this this form the person can't sell their house without paying the dues. A lawsuit gets you a "judgement" too but the person can leave without paying a dime. Plus it doesn't accumulate over time. A lien also can be foreclosed on to STOP THE BLEEDING.
If you have a lawyer and they advised you to go to small claims court, get another lawyer. I am sure they said "I will do whatever you tell me to do". They will except not tell you about the lien option...
If you have a lawyer and they advised you to go to small claims court, get another lawyer. I am sure they said "I will do whatever you tell me to do". They will except not tell you about the lien option...
Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Melissa,
Going to court is the next process to foreclose on the lien in NY, see: New York HOA and COA Foreclosures.
Additionally, obtaining a judgement from the court can allow the Association to garnish wages, tax returns, etc. Hence, saying not to go to court being the best option is not always the answer.
Mark,
Ledger entries, copies of letters showing attempts to collect, copies of certified receipts for mailing of the letters, etc. will likely be needed. I strongly recommend obtaining advice of a local attorney to make sure all the t's are crossed and i's dotted.
Going to court is the next process to foreclose on the lien in NY, see: New York HOA and COA Foreclosures.
Additionally, obtaining a judgement from the court can allow the Association to garnish wages, tax returns, etc. Hence, saying not to go to court being the best option is not always the answer.
Mark,
Ledger entries, copies of letters showing attempts to collect, copies of certified receipts for mailing of the letters, etc. will likely be needed. I strongly recommend obtaining advice of a local attorney to make sure all the t's are crossed and i's dotted.
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkB28 on 11/22/2022 4:00 AM
What more does the HOA Board need beside a printout of the Accounts Receivable page to show the Judge that a certain homeowner didn't pay their HOA dues?
What more does the HOA Board need beside a printout of the Accounts Receivable page to show the Judge that a certain homeowner didn't pay their HOA dues?
Bring all records of previous communications that were sent or received with the owner. Copies of any certified mail, regular mail, collection notices, email warnings, etc. Have you placed a lien on the property?
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
You should get your HOA's attorney involved. Whoever acts as the association's agent has to comply with the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA), and a mistake can make it difficult or impossible to collect.
Dealing with delinquent accounts isn't always straightforward. Options range from placing a lien all the way up through foreclosure, and your governing documents may have specific requirements. My community's bylaws state that foreclosure is one of the board's duties - but it has to make financial sense. The board needs to consider things like:
* how much is owed
* has the owner been paying anything, or have they stopped paying altogether
* has the owner communicated with the HOA at all
* does the owner have a mortgage and is it also in default
* how much equity does the owner have in the home
* does the owner have other debt and/or are they on the verge of bankruptcy
* is the owner employed or have another source of income
* what's the housing market like in your area, and how likely is it that a new owner will buy it
All of these will affect the HOA's ability to collect delinquent assessments.
I do agree about placing a lien as the second step after talking to the lawyer. Cost is usually minimal, and if the owner tries to sell the home, the HOA will get their money.
Dealing with delinquent accounts isn't always straightforward. Options range from placing a lien all the way up through foreclosure, and your governing documents may have specific requirements. My community's bylaws state that foreclosure is one of the board's duties - but it has to make financial sense. The board needs to consider things like:
* how much is owed
* has the owner been paying anything, or have they stopped paying altogether
* has the owner communicated with the HOA at all
* does the owner have a mortgage and is it also in default
* how much equity does the owner have in the home
* does the owner have other debt and/or are they on the verge of bankruptcy
* is the owner employed or have another source of income
* what's the housing market like in your area, and how likely is it that a new owner will buy it
All of these will affect the HOA's ability to collect delinquent assessments.
I do agree about placing a lien as the second step after talking to the lawyer. Cost is usually minimal, and if the owner tries to sell the home, the HOA will get their money.
MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462
Posts: 462
Posted:
Agree with others, file for a foreclosure lawsuit in regular court rather than a personal lawsuit in small claims court.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Tim remember a HOA has no access to one social security number nor to their place of employment. Garnishing wages and such hard to do without this information.
A lien is also a judgement of the court. You do not need to sue to get one. A lawyer can file it with the county. It is a judgement stronger than one won in court.
A lien is also a judgement of the court. You do not need to sue to get one. A lawyer can file it with the county. It is a judgement stronger than one won in court.
Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 11/22/2022 6:23 AM
Tim remember a HOA has no access to one social security number nor to their place of employment. Garnishing wages and such hard to do without this information.
Tim remember a HOA has no access to one social security number nor to their place of employment. Garnishing wages and such hard to do without this information.
It's not impossible and it's not impossible to obtain a SSN
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 11/22/2022 6:23 AM
A lien is also a judgement of the court. You do not need to sue to get one. A lawyer can file it with the county. It is a judgement stronger than one won in court.
A lien is also a judgement of the court. You do not need to sue to get one. A lawyer can file it with the county. It is a judgement stronger than one won in court.
Perhaps in AL.
Simply filing a lien on a property is not a judgement.
One can file lien with a judgement (which is stronger) after they go to court.
See: What Is the Difference Between a Property Lien and a Judgment Lien? from nolo
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
My lawyer told us to go for the lien and no no need to sue first.
Legal wise a HOA is not entitled to have social security number. Do not need it to file a lien, foreclosure, or lawsuit. You do need it for collection purposes. Do you think someone is going to give it to you after they lose their case or foreclosure?
I approach the situation as if have no access to this information other than HOA home address and amount owed for unpaid dues or special assessment. What legal approach do I have that is strongest? After that what collection option do I have with this information?
Do not assume you can get a social security number or place of employment. I certainly would not give that information to anyone. Especially my HOA who has no legal need for it.
Legal wise a HOA is not entitled to have social security number. Do not need it to file a lien, foreclosure, or lawsuit. You do need it for collection purposes. Do you think someone is going to give it to you after they lose their case or foreclosure?
I approach the situation as if have no access to this information other than HOA home address and amount owed for unpaid dues or special assessment. What legal approach do I have that is strongest? After that what collection option do I have with this information?
Do not assume you can get a social security number or place of employment. I certainly would not give that information to anyone. Especially my HOA who has no legal need for it.
Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 11/22/2022 6:48 AM
My lawyer told us to go for the lien and no no need to sue first.
My lawyer told us to go for the lien and no no need to sue first.
Every State is different. That is what I was trying to point out.
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 11/22/2022 6:48 AM
Legal wise a HOA is not entitled to have social security number. Do not need it to file a lien, foreclosure, or lawsuit. You do need it for collection purposes. Do you think someone is going to give it to you after they lose their case or foreclosure?
...
Do not assume you can get a social security number or place of employment. I certainly would not give that information to anyone. Especially my HOA who has no legal need for it.
Legal wise a HOA is not entitled to have social security number. Do not need it to file a lien, foreclosure, or lawsuit. You do need it for collection purposes. Do you think someone is going to give it to you after they lose their case or foreclosure?
...
Do not assume you can get a social security number or place of employment. I certainly would not give that information to anyone. Especially my HOA who has no legal need for it.
Attorneys (and likely others) can easily obtain that information.
The info doesn't have to be given by the individual.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Really are you sure about that or assume it? Do not assume a lawyer would. Why would they? If I was asked by an attorney would not say a word. Where would they get this information legally?
Do not assume your attorney can get this information or not charge extra for it ...
Do not assume your attorney can get this information or not charge extra for it ...
Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Melissa, do an internet search on how to legally obtain someones SSN.
Your SSN is used for many, many things. Some on private information. Some on public information.
Your SSN is used for many, many things. Some on private information. Some on public information.
MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462
Posts: 462
Posted:
We have garnished wages and/or bank accounts without the Board knowing the SSN number. I do not know the methods that the foreclosure attorneys use, but they have their ways.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Yes but not unless I agree to it
I have not filled out job applications because they have it on there. Which is stupid because I do not know who is reading this information. Plus a company does not need it unless they are hiring me. So do not assume social security numbers are needed for some activities just because you think they should
How many people here think a HOA should have your social security number on file? That may shock you to find out they do not need or is required.
I have not filled out job applications because they have it on there. Which is stupid because I do not know who is reading this information. Plus a company does not need it unless they are hiring me. So do not assume social security numbers are needed for some activities just because you think they should
How many people here think a HOA should have your social security number on file? That may shock you to find out they do not need or is required.
Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Melissa,
Nobody ever said to give your SSN to the HOA.
You said it was hard to obtain someones SSN, which may be needed for collection purposes in a judgement.
I pointed out that it is not that hard, or that expensive, to legally obtain it through other means.
Nobody ever said to give your SSN to the HOA.
You said it was hard to obtain someones SSN, which may be needed for collection purposes in a judgement.
I pointed out that it is not that hard, or that expensive, to legally obtain it through other means.
ManiaC
Posts: 6
Posts: 6
Posted:
i believe that in NY as well as most states a co. must be represented in court by an attorney
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 11/22/2022 6:40 AM
Posted By MelissaP1 on 11/22/2022 6:23 AM
Tim remember a HOA has no access to one social security number nor to their place of employment. Garnishing wages and such hard to do without this information.
Tim remember a HOA has no access to one social security number nor to their place of employment. Garnishing wages and such hard to do without this information.
It's not impossible and it's not impossible to obtain a SSN
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 11/22/2022 6:23 AM
A lien is also a judgement of the court. You do not need to sue to get one. A lawyer can file it with the county. It is a judgement stronger than one won in court.
A lien is also a judgement of the court. You do not need to sue to get one. A lawyer can file it with the county. It is a judgement stronger than one won in court.
Perhaps in AL.
Simply filing a lien on a property is not a judgement.
One can file lien with a judgement (which is stronger) after they go to court.
See: What Is the Difference Between a Property Lien and a Judgment Lien? from nolo
You get this information once you win a judgment from the person you are suing and they are deposed. They have to list the information because they are under oath.
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