Can we charge an extra fee for people who insist on mailings?

Started by MichaelT21 • 12 replies • 407 views

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MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462

Posted:

We're working on moving to less mailings. The ones that bother me are payment coupons, budget notices, and annual meeting packets. Combined, they cost about $10 a year.

I am wondering if we can charge everyone who still wants paper mailings an extra $10? I believe we would classify those as a specific assessment for lots that are requesting special services.

It appears to be legal...but curious if other assocations have considered this? We probably would only need to do this one or two years and quickly people would be motivated to sign up to opt out of paper mailings.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

The problem with that is almost everyone has a static email address. You will run into the didn't get it just as you do with USPS mailings.
This is a great Idea providing everyone is on board. You can set up your email sending preferences to ensure the recipient clicks to acknowledge
that they received it.
It is a great Idea to save some money on mailings and reduce paper cost at the same time.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

In CA, we're required to election materials USPS, if that's what you mean by "annual meeting packets." there are other materials that must go to Owners USPS UNLESS they sign an agreement to receive them, the annual budget or prospective rule changes, for instance, via email.

So you need to know first about your bylaws filing policies and those of your state, WA.

ND (PA)
Posts: 792

Posted:

Man you can come up with some stuff . . .

My next topic is going to be, "How can I get paid for reading and responding to MikeT's 'Random Question of the Day' even though I have no idea if he reviews or does anything with all the input, because in a matter of hours, the next half-baked idea comes out and I get drawn into reading and responding to that one . . ."

You need to thoroughly read your docs and state HOA law . . . it likely requires mailing via USPS certain things. Those things that aren't required to be mailed should be eyed first for delivering via an alternate method.

Further, I might approach your situation in a different way. Result would be similar to what you desire, but optics are different IMO. Everyone pays the same amount for the common "service" of receiving mailings; however, those who opt in to an electronic-only delivery of the same materials would get a $10 credit at some point. Those who do not opt in would still pay what they have always paid. Instead of a negative, penalizing sort of perspective by charging an extra $10 fee to certain people, you are instead having a more positive, reward type of perspective and giving a $10 credit to those who choose to do something optional that makes things more efficient and saves time/money.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

I understand where ND's going with a $10 credit, but the problem is that would mess up the budget. We know with delinquencies, people who do pay end up indirectly subsidizing those who don't. In a similar vein, if you give the electronic folks a $10 credit, that reduces the amount the association has available to pay expenses and fund reserves.

It's true Michael should read his documents (although he never does) - if the documents require snail mail, that's what you do. You don't want to do it, talk to the homeowners about amending the documents. We send the payment coupon books with our annual budget every year - the people who pay electronically don't get one, but they know what the assessment will be, so all they have to do is go online and adjust what will be paid. Time may also be on your side - so many pay everything electronically, you may find within 5 years everyone's doing this, so you can drop the mail.

ND, you ARE correct on Michael's questions - but now, I figure at least it's a good thing he's bouncing these ideas off somebody - Lord Knows he seems incapable of going to the rest of the board. I guess they're mannequins - just sit around and look pretty....

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Is that not what is supposed to be a budget item anyways? A HOA really doesn't need to "Save" money. It is supposed to spend it on what it needs and budget for that. I don't see why it's such a burden if it's something this an operational expense already.

Former HOA President

ND (PA)
Posts: 792

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 11/16/2022 4:37 AM
Is that not what is supposed to be a budget item anyways? A HOA really doesn't need to "Save" money. It is supposed to spend it on what it needs and budget for that. I don't see why it's such a burden if it's something this an operational expense already.

So what you're saying is . . . regardless of the cost, because it's an operational expense, then there is no reason to try and reduce that expense? It should just be budgeted for and everyone should just pay up?! Example . . . year after year, your landscaper raises rates, but that's just the way it goes, so there's no reason to try and re-compete the contract to possibly get same or better service at a reduced cost?! That's dumb.

While Mike has a lot of wild ideas, I do give him credit for trying to cut costs, reduce expenses, and look for other financial efficiencies. While many people are ok with the easy way out and typical "government-ish" mentality that costs go up, so everyone just pays more; I applaud Mike's efforts to examine everything to the n-th degree and try to find ways to save his homeowners'/HOA's money.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Well, we're doing it. About a month ago we received notice that we could request "no coupon books" or we'd be charged $10. I don't have a problem with it. I use my bank's bill pay system - and the coupon books are basically printed on toilet paper, and given the issues with the USPS, I wouldn't assume that a paper check would actually arrive at its destination.

That said, I've been hearing some hints of rumblings of discontent. Not about this specifically, but I expect that someone who is already disgruntled and who wants to use paper checks will be further annoyed.

For vocational dissidents, anything is an excuse to gripe about the board, and this will do just fine for the Outrage du Jour.

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ND on 11/16/2022 6:01 AM

Thanks ND. You and I disagree on some (most?) things but I appreciate your affirmation that our efforts to reduce cost are appreciated.

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462

Posted:

To be clear:

Yes, I've read through our by-laws & CCRs. It's terribly confusing to me to see how they apply in this situation. Our CC&Rs require mailings as they were written prior to the internet age; however, a new state law allows homeowners to opt in if they agree by e-mail or letter to receive the required mailings electronically. This overrides our CC&Rs. We have done a couple of distributions of requests to opt in and around 40% of our community has opted in. We have e-mails for 85% of the community, so we should be able to get 75% - 80% opting in without much trouble. (I understand a few will always prefer mailings).

Thus, came up with the idea of a small fee if people want to continue receiving mail. This would motivate a lot of people to opt in to receive electronic communication.

It's not really an issue to cost. I do agree with Melissa to some extend that we collect dues for purposes like this. But I personally print the annual meeting packet on my printer. Last year it took 3 reams of paper and resulted in a 8" stack of paper. It just seems wasteful to mail all of that out, especially when most people seem to ignore their mailbox contents.

AugustinD
Posts: 1,027

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelT21 on 11/16/2022 8:02 AM
Our CC&Rs require mailings as they were written prior to the internet age; however, a new state law

I looked at the state law. My opinion is that this HOA may not assess an additional amount to owners who desire snail mail. Instead, all owners through their regular assessment must pay for the CC&R-required snail mailings to those owners who insist on snail mailed notices, pursuant to the requirement in the CC&RS, said CC&Rs denoting a contract to which all agreed.

Of course, this is wasteful, and here in difficult times where people need to take seriously minimizing waste that sucks up our dwindling natural resources.

I suggest the board set aside $100 for a lottery: If an owner either previously signed up for electronic communications, or opts in by such-and-such date, then the owner becomes eligible to win $100 at the annual meeting, when the lottery will conclude. Rationalize the use of HOA funds for this.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Good, Michael, as noted about we have the opt-in in CA and our members do sin the doc involved.

BUT, some documents like ballots for the annual meeting must be mailed USPS by CA law. And, yes, that package is several pages long.

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelT21 on 11/16/2022 8:02 AM
To be clear:

Yes, I've read through our by-laws & CCRs. It's terribly confusing to me to see how they apply in this situation. Our CC&Rs require mailings as they were written prior to the internet age; however, a new state law allows homeowners to opt in if they agree by e-mail or letter to receive the required mailings electronically. This overrides our CC&Rs. We have done a couple of distributions of requests to opt in and around 40% of our community has opted in. We have e-mails for 85% of the community, so we should be able to get 75% - 80% opting in without much trouble. (I understand a few will always prefer mailings).

Thus, came up with the idea of a small fee if people want to continue receiving mail. This would motivate a lot of people to opt in to receive electronic communication.

It's not really an issue to cost. I do agree with Melissa to some extend that we collect dues for purposes like this. But I personally print the annual meeting packet on my printer. Last year it took 3 reams of paper and resulted in a 8" stack of paper. It just seems wasteful to mail all of that out, especially when most people seem to ignore their mailbox contents.

Your CC&Rs require mailings. Your assessment fees should reflect the cost associated with these mailing. This means if you charge them again they are paying twice.

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