Working with commmittees?

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 973

Posted:

Is there any kind of standard process y’all use for working with committees?

Our situation: the current head of our Social Committee has been doing the job for a few years. She operates very independently of the Board: there’s an annual budget - but she does not (example) submit a list of social events / projected costs for the year.

Recently, some volunteers spent some money on food. Social Committee head wants them to send their receipts in to our PM / PMC so they can be reimbursed. I’m all for reimbursing people. But as Treasurer, I feel like the process is rather “casual”. The Board doesn’t know what kinds of expenses she authorized, nor how much money was spent. And currently it looks like we need to depend on our PM to flag any ‘unusual’. I’m not really concerned about any misuse of funds - but the overall process is a LOT looser than anything I’ve encountered in business. Wouldn’t the head of a committee typically handle reimbursements? (Ie, collect receipts, send them in)?

Or is this kind of thing SOP in HOA-land? I guess I’d like to know how other Boards handle this kind of thing?

(I’ll mention that establishing processes for this might be tough because the Committee head might threaten to quit, and it’s uncertain who will take over).

BillD

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Bill

Not uncommon for a Committee to think they run the association. Those type have to be reminded the BOD runs the association, not them.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Our HOA has a document called "Guidelines for All Committees." And each Committee also has it's own "charter" that describes its duties and limits. To even exist as a committee, there must be three members willing to serve. They must meet monthly, have meeting minutes and submit them & meeting minutes to the board to be in the monthly directors report.

Most of our committees only recommend to the Board and have no decision-making authority. But our Social Committees charter gives it an annual budget that they may spend on social activities, supplies & events w/out board approval.

As in your HOA, BillD, members submit receipts to the PM and a copy to the chair. Members of the Social Committee (SC) may expend no $$ unless approved by the Committee. These expenditures are assigned and voted on at the Monthly meetings.

Our financials show under Disbursements what each committee member spent on what items.

I must say that expenditures have Neve been a problem, but over the years, this is the Committee which seems to have power struggles, etc, i.e.,is a pain to the Board & PM. but as with your HOA, often the board worries WHO would keep the ball rolling if too much pressure is put on the chair or committee.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

I'll start by stating that, except for the nominating committee (required by our bylaws), the optional committees in my community have been problematic. They attracted the vocational dissidents who tried to use the committee as a platform for their issues, wouldn't stay in their lanes, wouldn't take guidance from the board, made questionable decisions, wanted to exclude people based on protected class status, etc. In short, they didn't help spread the board's workload around, they created more work. Fortunately, they self-destructed pretty quickly and saved us the job of disbanding them, which would not have gone down well with the troublemakers.

I agree with Kerry's comments about the importance of having a committee charter, meetings with published minutes, etc. Our bylaws require the nominating committee to have at least one board member on it. I think this is useful even if the board member is only there for oversight and doesn't actually vote or do any of the committees' work. If nothing else, you'll have an early warning about problems before they have a chance to get worse.

I've seen other communities use finance committees effectively - probably because these have a clear business purpose, and doing the job well benefits everyone. Things like social committees can go off the rails - people forget what their role is, think they can get creative, don't keep good records, etc.

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462

Posted:

Regarding reimbursements. While our PM doesn't require a robust process of approval before sending checks, I feel that it is important to have one and lead by example. I submit large quantities of receipts for reimbursement, and want to be sure we have good documentation of the approval of each individual expense for transparency and whatnot.

Thus, before submitting reimbursement requests, I collect the cost of the reimbursement request, the nature of the request, and the vendor, and place it on a table on a powerpoint slide. Then I go through the expenses at the board meeting, and if approved, ask another Board member to make a motion, ask for a second, and then call a vote. Then there is a note that the reimbursements were approved by the board in the meeting minutes.

I always worry about what happens if my reimbursements are not approved, but that has never happened. I try to be careful to spend money wisely so don't anticipate it being an issue in the future.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Our Covenants only discuss appointing an Architectural Control Committee. Non-owners can be committee members if they bring "professional" abilities such an an Architect. That said, our attorney advised us to not appoint committees. Let the BOD act as such. Easy enough as we basically do not allow any architectural changes as we strive for a common look.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

With Cathy, if a committee has no board members on it, our Guidelines for all Committees require a "board liaison," who is a non-voting member the committee, but keeps it on track if it strays form its charter, has ideas that conflict with the governing docs, etc.

Our board, though has been lax in requiring the liaison. Sooooo, our ARC went off the rails with its recs to the Board, this is happening right now, that are a mess and intrude on owners' privacy, etc., ick.

Along with our Soc. Comm. being a nuisance part of the the time, other committee members, though not permitted by the charters--only the chair lists the PM--the PM too often with the "ideas," et., that should go to their co-members at a committee meeting. Here, I'm greeting with Cathy that committees and their members can consume too much of the PM's or board's time without giving much in return.

So, having watched various versions of committee members being annoying, I'd say that any board should have strict guidelines & charters & enforce them. If the committee is NOT saving the labor of the PM and/or the Board, i.e., actually helping, dump it.

The positive side is that most of our directors come from previous service on a committee. Committees can be good pipelines.

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462

Posted:

We have three committees, and each of the committees is either lead by my wife or me. As many of you know, I'm the president, and keep my wife in line on running the committees. (This is not gender specific. If she was president and I ran the committees, she'd be keeping me in line).

I really wouldn't want it any other way. Committees are great to get other people on, but require additional time and energy to keep running smoothly. They don't take care of themselves.

It's honestly way more efficient if I just make decisions, but the community wants as many voices to help make decisions, and committees allow many people to share opinions. Each committee member does hardly anything, but everything helps and I do like having lots of voices invovled.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Last I heard form your MichaelT, you are a "committee" of one for some functions and you'd previously written that your wife is a committee of one. Is that true? If so, how can you term One" a committee?

Does, in fact, you HOA have any committees comprising more than one person??

MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 859

Posted:

Committees work on behalf of the board. If there are members of the committee who feel they are independent of the board, they need to be informed that practice is to end, or they will be removed. This committee will follow what the Board expects.

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 11/15/2022 2:41 PM
Last I heard form your MichaelT, you are a "committee" of one for some functions and you'd previously written that your wife is a committee of one. Is that true? If so, how can you term One" a committee?

Does, in fact, you HOA have any committees comprising more than one person??

Our Architectual Control Committee is a committee of 4 people, lead by my wife. I have nothing to do with that activity as I'm colorblind and 75% of the work they do involves approving paint colors for people's home. Bad idea to have me involved.

Our Compliance Committee is a committee of 4, both my wife and I are on it. I think there is a bit of a power struggle at the moment between her and me as to who is in charge, but pretty sure I'll be committee lead. Without a compliance committee, I would be the lone ranger making all decisions on compliance, so by having 4 people we are able to make group decisions.

Our Social Committee is a committee of one, and my wife is the lone member on it. Without her participation, we wouldn't have a social committee.

We have no other committees.

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462

Posted:

Combined we have about 13 separate homeowners involved in our HOA board, whether committee member, Board member, or non-voting officer. When I joined the Board, we had 3 people on the Board and no committees. So while people might groan that my wife and I hold most of the power in the association, we do have far more people involved in the HOA affairs than we have had in the last 10 years, which is a good thing overall.

JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398

Posted:

CA HOA of 140 nice homes. I am the new BOD President (3 BOD) and today was our first mtg with existing PMC of 7 years. I suggested creating a Safety committee for educational purposes for 2 specific reasons. We are in a high Fire area (drought conditions) and there also has been an increase in crime (stolen catalytic converters, mail box theft, etc). 2018 we experienced a near catastrophic fire (high winds snapped wires), exit roads blocked with one 2-lane option for thousands of cars. PMC said a Safety committee carried too much "liability" for our community, even if it was only educational fliers. Curious to hear from others????

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JackieB4 on 11/15/2022 8:10 PM
CA HOA of 140 nice homes. I am the new BOD President (3 BOD) and today was our first mtg with existing PMC of 7 years. I suggested creating a Safety committee for educational purposes for 2 specific reasons. We are in a high Fire area (drought conditions) and there also has been an increase in crime (stolen catalytic converters, mail box theft, etc). 2018 we experienced a near catastrophic fire (high winds snapped wires), exit roads blocked with one 2-lane option for thousands of cars. PMC said a Safety committee carried too much "liability" for our community, even if it was only educational fliers. Curious to hear from others????

The PMC has a point - it's a good question to float by your insurance agent.

In general, if you're a newbie board member, you may want to proceed slowly with committees and start with one that is low drama/high likelihood of success. In the case of a safety committee, unless the committee has members with some specific expertise, you'll be relying on people who don't know any more about the topic than you do. What you need is professional advice - ie. talk to the local fire department to get an assessment of your community's risk, and ask if someone from local law enforcement would talk to the community about crime (at the annual meeting or at the board meeting).

AugustinD
Posts: 1,027

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JackieB4 on 11/15/2022 8:10 PM
CA HOA of 140 nice homes. I am the new BOD President (3 BOD) and today was our first mtg with existing PMC of 7 years. I suggested creating a Safety committee for educational purposes for 2 specific reasons. We are in a high Fire area (drought conditions) and there also has been an increase in crime (stolen catalytic converters, mail box theft, etc). 2018 we experienced a near catastrophic fire (high winds snapped wires), exit roads blocked with one 2-lane option for thousands of cars. PMC said a Safety committee carried too much "liability" for our community, even if it was only educational fliers. Curious to hear from others????

For coastal states in particular, I think what, if anything, a HOA/COA should do to promote safety is so important. JackieB4, won't you please consider starting a new thread?

Arguably a HOA/COA is tasked with "promoting safety." I think some bylaws and CC&Rs even speak of this. But my biggest concern is that this committee (1) would not have the expertise; and (2) would be repeating what government authorities are already putting out.

I think the HOA/COA should maybe simply advise in its newsletters that owners listen to government departments that serve public safety.

At this point more and more parts of California likely need to admit that weather effects are exponentially rising, and these parts of California are on the steep part of the exponential curve. Meaning it may not matter what precautions a HOA/COA takes. As a matter of reality, infrastructure is not designed to take the impact of the heat, the winds, the fires et cetera.

Massachusetts wells are also seeing unheard of rates of drying up.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

As a new board member and agreeing with Cathy, a "Safety Committee" is too big a bite for now. Also as she noted, inviting a police representative to a special meeting or Town Hall meeting is useful.

Meanwhile, you might do some research about what your municipality advises concerning safety. They might have some flyers written by ppl. in the filed that you can distribute.

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462

Posted:

I'm of the opinion that in our neighborhood (yours may be different), safety and security is not something the Board has control over. We have reviewed a few options to try to improve security, and everytime have come to the conclusion that it is not worth the dues increase that would be required to pay for that option. In large part, we are hamstrung by a police department that does respond to "petty" crimes and/or and/or jails that do not accept criminals who committed "petty" crime and/ro prosecutors that do not prosecute people for "petty" crimes.

Without the backing of those with more power than us, there is little that we can do. We simply communicate to homeowners that it's a city/police matter. If they press further, we encourage them to vote people in office who will empower the police and appoint judges who value enforcing the law.

JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398

Posted:

Cathy, Augustin, Kerry, Michael...thanks for posting comments. I agree with each of you. To clarify, my intent was/is purely educational, offering no legal advice nor hinting we "know it all." We own a community bulletin board and are considering a PMC newsletter. I simply didn't consider this community SAFETY issue to be considered so litigious; We do have Police and Fire Depts visit annually(more of a fun-family event). I will let the dust settle on this one. Thanks again.
Jackie

DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BillD16 on 11/14/2022 2:02 PM

Is there any kind of standard process y’all use for working with committees?

Our situation: the current head of our Social Committee has been doing the job for a few years. She operates very independently of the Board: there’s an annual budget - but she does not (example) submit a list of social events / projected costs for the year.

Recently, some volunteers spent some money on food. Social Committee head wants them to send their receipts in to our PM / PMC so they can be reimbursed. I’m all for reimbursing people. But as Treasurer, I feel like the process is rather “casual”. The Board doesn’t know what kinds of expenses she authorized, nor how much money was spent. And currently it looks like we need to depend on our PM to flag any ‘unusual’. I’m not really concerned about any misuse of funds - but the overall process is a LOT looser than anything I’ve encountered in business. Wouldn’t the head of a committee typically handle reimbursements? (Ie, collect receipts, send them in)?

Or is this kind of thing SOP in HOA-land? I guess I’d like to know how other Boards handle this kind of thing?

(I’ll mention that establishing processes for this might be tough because the Committee head might threaten to quit, and it’s uncertain who will take over).

BillD

Each of our committees has a “liaison” from the board who attends as many meetings as they can. At each board meeting each committee Chair provides a short committee report to the board/community. The committee submits minutes of each meeting to the board. Oh yes, we do have a charter that describes the purpose and duties of the committee, and explains that all committee members serve at the pleasure of the board.

Only our social Committee and Facilities Committee has a budget. They must get the budget approved each year by submitting a breakdown of what the funds will be used for. They have been almost entirely an asset and seldom present challenges. For one thing, the roles and very well understood by everyone.

DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BillD16 on 11/14/2022 2:02 PM

Is there any kind of standard process y’all use for working with committees?

Our situation: the current head of our Social Committee has been doing the job for a few years. She operates very independently of the Board: there’s an annual budget - but she does not (example) submit a list of social events / projected costs for the year.

Recently, some volunteers spent some money on food. Social Committee head wants them to send their receipts in to our PM / PMC so they can be reimbursed. I’m all for reimbursing people. But as Treasurer, I feel like the process is rather “casual”. The Board doesn’t know what kinds of expenses she authorized, nor how much money was spent. And currently it looks like we need to depend on our PM to flag any ‘unusual’. I’m not really concerned about any misuse of funds - but the overall process is a LOT looser than anything I’ve encountered in business. Wouldn’t the head of a committee typically handle reimbursements? (Ie, collect receipts, send them in)?

Or is this kind of thing SOP in HOA-land? I guess I’d like to know how other Boards handle this kind of thing?

(I’ll mention that establishing processes for this might be tough because the Committee head might threaten to quit, and it’s uncertain who will take over).

BillD

Each of our committees has a “liaison” from the board who attends as many meetings as they can. At each board meeting each committee Chair provides a short committee report to the board/community. The committee submits minutes of each meeting to the board. Oh yes, we do have a charter that describes the purpose and duties of the committee, and explains that all committee members serve at the pleasure of the board.

Only our social Committee and Facilities Committee has a budget. They must get the budget approved each year by submitting a breakdown of what the funds will be used for. They have been almost entirely an asset and seldom present challenges. For one thing, the roles and very well understood by everyone.

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 973

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DavidG45 on 11/16/2022 6:48 PM

Posted By BillD16 on 11/14/2022 2:02 PM

Is there any kind of standard process y’all use for working with committees?

Our situation: the current head of our Social Committee has been doing the job for a few years. She operates very independently of the Board: there’s an annual budget - but she does not (example) submit a list of social events / projected costs for the year.

Recently, some volunteers spent some money on food. Social Committee head wants them to send their receipts in to our PM / PMC so they can be reimbursed. I’m all for reimbursing people. But as Treasurer, I feel like the process is rather “casual”. The Board doesn’t know what kinds of expenses she authorized, nor how much money was spent. And currently it looks like we need to depend on our PM to flag any ‘unusual’. I’m not really concerned about any misuse of funds - but the overall process is a LOT looser than anything I’ve encountered in business. Wouldn’t the head of a committee typically handle reimbursements? (Ie, collect receipts, send them in)?

Or is this kind of thing SOP in HOA-land? I guess I’d like to know how other Boards handle this kind of thing?

(I’ll mention that establishing processes for this might be tough because the Committee head might threaten to quit, and it’s uncertain who will take over).

BillD

Each of our committees has a “liaison” from the board who attends as many meetings as they can. At each board meeting each committee Chair provides a short committee report to the board/community. The committee submits minutes of each meeting to the board. Oh yes, we do have a charter that describes the purpose and duties of the committee, and explains that all committee members serve at the pleasure of the board.

Only our social Committee and Facilities Committee has a budget. They must get the budget approved each year by submitting a breakdown of what the funds will be used for. They have been almost entirely an asset and seldom present challenges. For one thing, the roles and very well understood by everyone.

Thank you, everyone!

It’s been interesting to see your responses. For better or for worse, it appears that my neighborhood has been running very fast and loose WRT committees. I don’t know if we’ll ever tighten it up - the Board may not feel they want to fight this battle. And: it will likely be a battle. I hate to say it, but it seems to be something of a “girls club” - 11 committee members, all women - and they seem to resent any notion of accountability. I’d be happy with something very minimal - like, submit a plan of events at the beginning of the year w approx costs - but I gather they won’t like that. It was rough just finding out who is on the committee in the first place. The people I’ve talked to so far have all immediately gotten defensive - mind you, this all got started because I wanted to make sure all of the volunteers were properly reimbursed.

Oh well. Oh - *chuckle* it occurs to me that I could *join* the Social Committee. But that would only cause problems, I’m sure.

Oh - if anyone has a “Guidelines for Committees” document, or any kind of “___ Committee Charter” they would like to share, I’d be much obliged.

BillD

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

Where I used to live, in a community of 317 homes, we had an active group of seven committees, each with 4-5 at least. I always felt thye, not the board, were the backbone of the community. Tonight I met with a Budget committee of 10 people, two which were board members. All were Chinese and never an issue with language. Talk about making my job easier.

I have never been one to look down on people willing to serve the community in which they live. Life is way too short.

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 973

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JackieB4 on 11/15/2022 8:10 PM
CA HOA of 140 nice homes. I am the new BOD President (3 BOD) and today was our first mtg with existing PMC of 7 years. I suggested creating a Safety committee for educational purposes for 2 specific reasons. We are in a high Fire area (drought conditions) and there also has been an increase in crime (stolen catalytic converters, mail box theft, etc). 2018 we experienced a near catastrophic fire (high winds snapped wires), exit roads blocked with one 2-lane option for thousands of cars. PMC said a Safety committee carried too much "liability" for our community, even if it was only educational fliers. Curious to hear from others????

I think your PMC is trippin’.

Although … is it possible they fear the “crime safety” aspect more than the “fire safety” aspect? How do they feel about a Fire Safety Committee?

I’d hammer on them to nail down the exact nature of the “liability” that concerns them.

BillD

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

If you'd give an email addy, Bill, I'll send you our Guidelines for All Committees. It originally was written by our PMC, but we've tweaked it considerably.

It's important to remember that the Board is ultimately responsible for everything committees & their members do, so to protect an assn., there truly must be documents to which committees must adhere. Our HOA also has a very brief form that Owners fill out to apply. The Board approves all committee members at open meetings so there's a record in the meeting minutes.

Our Board did call a few committee members to executive session to "discipline" them for going beyond their charter. A couple of members of the Finance Committee had gone to HOAs with in-house management to see if we could see $$ by going the route. They had no authority to give the impression our HOA was planning to fire our PMC.

Generally, though, our Finance Committee has been the most useful. But our required ARC also works very hard.

JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398

Posted:

Bill D, It feels like we are neighbors...but nada! The other 2 BOD members vetoed my committee suggestions (Safety & Welcoming New HO's): " No one comes to the meeting so no need for committees" (no location posted since pre-covid) The virtual bimonthly's changed times often with only the basic 4 day notification posted. Our PMC came up with an "Oops" response when I asked in June "where are our election ballots? The "oops" cause a delay/reset with new BOD (me + 2) announced last month, Oct. Meeting bimonthly starting last week, we have 2 more BOD open meetings before April 2023 elections. My BOD colleagues (2) aren't interested in our CCRs, Bylaws, or R/R. "That's why we have a PMC." If this weren't so absurd, SNL would have great material. Thanks again for sharing.

JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398

Posted:

Kerry, I would love to receive your guidelines: [email protected].
Where in CA are you located?
Thanks for helping make this BOD journey more optomistic.

BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 973

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 11/17/2022 7:54 AM
If you'd give an email addy, Bill, I'll send you our Guidelines for All Committees. It originally was written by our PMC, but we've tweaked it considerably.

It's important to remember that the Board is ultimately responsible for everything committees & their members do, so to protect an assn., there truly must be documents to which committees must adhere. Our HOA also has a very brief form that Owners fill out to apply. The Board approves all committee members at open meetings so there's a record in the meeting minutes.

Our Board did call a few committee members to executive session to "discipline" them for going beyond their charter. A couple of members of the Finance Committee had gone to HOAs with in-house management to see if we could see $$ by going the route. They had no authority to give the impression our HOA was planning to fire our PMC.

Generally, though, our Finance Committee has been the most useful. But our required ARC also works very hard.

Kerry, thank you! I’d be very interested in seeing your Guidelines. I think you can contact me at [email protected] for the next 48 hours.

BillD

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

On its way soon, billD.