How can I get paid for an upcoming HOA task?

Started by MichaelT21 • 15 replies • 488 views

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MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462

Posted:

I know I'll get laughed at, but I'm dead serious about wanting to get paid in this situation.

We have a homeowner that encroached on HOA property by expanding their yard. We have been asking nicely for 6 months for them to remove the encroachment, which they have not done, and soon will get firm with them. By getting firm, I mean that we will hire a landscaping firm to remove the portion of their backyard that is on the association side of the property. To do this right, we will need a geotechnical firm to be involved to direct how to restore the ground, a surveying company to validate the property line location, and a landscaping company to accomplish the touch labor. All of the work of these vendors will need to be coordinated by someone, who has been me in the past.

I do not know a firm that we could hire that would act as the general contractor for this situation.

I'm willing to do it, but only if I get paid. I think that I should be paid $100/hr for my services to coordinate everything. It will probably take about 10 hours of my time, so I should be paid about $1000.

It's my opinion that serving as the general contractor for a property encroachment removal is beyond the scope of normal board duties, and thus, I am justified in receiving compensation for this task.

How do I go about this?

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelT21 on 11/09/2022 7:52 AM
I know I'll get laughed at, but I'm dead serious about wanting to get paid in this situation.

We have a homeowner that encroached on HOA property by expanding their yard. We have been asking nicely for 6 months for them to remove the encroachment, which they have not done, and soon will get firm with them. By getting firm, I mean that we will hire a landscaping firm to remove the portion of their backyard that is on the association side of the property. To do this right, we will need a geotechnical firm to be involved to direct how to restore the ground, a surveying company to validate the property line location, and a landscaping company to accomplish the touch labor. All of the work of these vendors will need to be coordinated by someone, who has been me in the past.

I do not know a firm that we could hire that would act as the general contractor for this situation.

I'm willing to do it, but only if I get paid. I think that I should be paid $100/hr for my services to coordinate everything. It will probably take about 10 hours of my time, so I should be paid about $1000.

It's my opinion that serving as the general contractor for a property encroachment removal is beyond the scope of normal board duties, and thus, I am justified in receiving compensation for this task.

How do I go about this?

The best way to go about this is to resign, get your GC license and then submit a proposal to the Board. This truly is absurd.

AugustinD
Posts: 1,027

Posted:

-- A director may lawfully do business (unrelated to the director's board work per se) with a HOA as long as the Board approves it.

-- The Washington Nonprofit Corporation Act requires that the board and you take certain specific steps to go forward with this plan. See https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=24.03A.615 . Notably, full disclosure must be made, and you have to abstain yourself from the vote.

-- If I were an owner observing this, then I would want bids from a few others. Else the appearance of a sweetheart deal is strong.

-- But I have far bigger concerns about a HOA doing work on land without the permission of someone who alleges he owns the land. I am well aware you think the HOA owns the land, but so far, a bona fide legal dispute exists on the point. "Getting firm" to me means not going full steam ahead with doing xyz on the land. Instead, it means getting a court order that orders the owner to do xyz with his encroachment.

-- If your HOA does not have an opinion from the HOA attorney to do as the HOA wishes here (regardless of who does the landscaping work), then I think this is a fatal mistake that is going to complicate litigation, indemnification by the HOA's insurer if this goes to court, and more.

-- At some point, your HOA will demand that the owner pay for this restoration, correct? This is even more reason not to proceed until the HOA has either a court order in hand or agreement from the owner for this work (where the owner says the HOA is right). Without a court order or an agreement, the owner will refuse to pay for this work, and you are still stuck going to court to get him to pay, only the HOA's chances of prevailing are diminished because who owns the land is in dispute.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

RESIGN NOW!

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 11/09/2022 8:08 AM
-- A director may lawfully do business (unrelated to the director's board work per se) with a HOA as long as the Board approves it.

-- The Washington Nonprofit Corporation Act requires that the board and you take certain specific steps to go forward with this plan. See https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=24.03A.615 . Notably, full disclosure must be made, and you have to abstain yourself from the vote.

-- If I were an owner observing this, then I would want bids from a few others. Else the appearance of a sweetheart deal is strong.

-- But I have far bigger concerns about a HOA doing work on land without the permission of someone who alleges he owns the land. I am well aware you think the HOA owns the land, but so far, a bona fide legal dispute exists on the point. "Getting firm" to me means not going full steam ahead with doing xyz on the land. Instead, it means getting a court order that orders the owner to do xyz with his encroachment.

-- If your HOA does not have an opinion from the HOA attorney to do as the HOA wishes here (regardless of who does the landscaping work), then I think this is a fatal mistake that is going to complicate litigation, indemnification by the HOA's insurer if this goes to court, and more.

-- At some point, your HOA will demand that the owner pay for this restoration, correct? This is even more reason not to proceed until the HOA has either a court order in hand or agreement from the owner for this work (where the owner says the HOA is right). Without a court order or an agreement, the owner will refuse to pay for this work, and you are still stuck going to court to get him to pay, only the HOA's chances of prevailing are diminished because who owns the land is in dispute.

To be clear, we wouldn't lift a finger without having approval from the HOA attorney on what we are doing.

It's far cleaner if the owners, at their own expense and time, vacate the encroachment. However, it appears that we need to get firm with them for them to actually do it. Getting firm will mean that we give them a date at which we start project planning for the encroachment removal and letting them know that all costs incurred by the association for the project from that date forward will be added to their homeowner account, and it would be much cheaper if they properly take care of it themselves.

There is no dispute over who owns the land. They people who made the encroachment have been trying to force the sale of the property from us to them in a variety of ways, but have been unsuccessful, as you cannot force people to transfer land generally.

AugustinD
Posts: 1,027

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichaelT21 on 11/09/2022 8:17 AM
To be clear, we wouldn't lift a finger without having approval from the HOA attorney on what we are doing.

It's far cleaner if the owners, at their own expense and time, vacate the encroachment. However, it appears that we need to get firm with them for them to actually do it. Getting firm will mean that we give them a date at which we start project planning for the encroachment removal and letting them know that all costs incurred by the association for the project from that date forward will be added to their homeowner account, and it would be much cheaper if they properly take care of it themselves.

There is no dispute over who owns the land. They people who made the encroachment have been trying to force the sale of the property from us to them in a variety of ways, but have been unsuccessful, as you cannot force people to transfer land generally.

As long as the HOA attorney has blessed every detail of this approach, then very well. Granted people like yourself and myself come here all the time and by nature, tend to omit anything that does not favor our own position. I am concerned this may be happening here. All I can do is take you at your word and not try to, ya know, browbeat you (this time, at least).

I hope you read the Washington Nonprofit Corporation statute section and put it on record at the board meeting where your contracting to do the work is discussed.

I admit that, were I an owner there, and as much as I loathe that directors are not compensated, I would not want the board giving any contract to any director, even if the board followed the aforementioned Washington statute section to the letter.

As they say: "Go in peace."

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462

Posted:

I think what I will do is have the slope company (civil engineer) and the landscape company talk to each other and decide amongst themselves who should be the prime contractor. Then they can handle all of the details themselves without involving me, except for a couple of things here and there. Then I don't have to worry about my time, and the issue of pay doesn't need to come up. Both our landscaper and civil engineering firm are competent enough they can work on their own, as long as they know we will pay for their time.

BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217

Posted:

Michael, that is a much better solution. You should stay at arms length as much as possible in any such situation.

And, do not ask for payment for anything, except reimbursement for out-of-pocket expenditures.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Michael

You seem to be making a mountain out of a mole hill. It seems to me that what is needed is a survey then a landscaping company with all expenses billed to the owner. Also be dam sure the owner knows what work is being done versus having "strangers" parading thru his "property".

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Michael

How far/deep has the owner gone into common property?

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

What Augustin and Max said. Either discuss all this with the rest of the board, do some research on how to find the vendors you need - or resign now before you get tossed on your ass, either by being voted out or recalled. Every week you ask questions that are getting more and more ridiculous. Asking isn't the problem, but we never hear the end of the story, which makes me wonder if others came to their senses and stepped in before you stepped headlong into a shitpile. Or the community really is as oblivious as you've said, in which case, they'll deserve what they will surely get if you go forward with this stunt.

You've been back and forth with this homeowner for six months, and you haven't pulled the trigger and sued the crap out of him or her because......? Three months in should have told you these people are bracing for a fight and may know something you don't, but that's when you file your lawsuit and make them spill it in court, then the judge will decide who's right. You also do your homework and documentation because if you're going to sue anyone, you may as well win. There's nothing wrong with asking for the association's expenses to be reimbursed by the homeowner if you have to hire the surveyor and a geotechnical firm (is that really necessary - what's wrong with a landscaping firm?), legal fees, and whatever else the association has to spend in getting this issue fixed.

Tit for Tat isn't a good HOA option and that's what usually gets boards into trouble and sometimes on the news. Calm the hell down and THINK THE STUFF THROUGH FOR A CHANGE!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 11/09/2022 9:53 AM
What Augustin and Max said. Either discuss all this with the rest of the board, do some research on how to find the vendors you need - or resign now before you get tossed on your ass, either by being voted out or recalled. Every week you ask questions that are getting more and more ridiculous. Asking isn't the problem, but we never hear the end of the story, which makes me wonder if others came to their senses and stepped in before you stepped headlong into a shitpile. Or the community really is as oblivious as you've said, in which case, they'll deserve what they will surely get if you go forward with this stunt.

You've been back and forth with this homeowner for six months, and you haven't pulled the trigger and sued the crap out of him or her because......? Three months in should have told you these people are bracing for a fight and may know something you don't, but that's when you file your lawsuit and make them spill it in court, then the judge will decide who's right. You also do your homework and documentation because if you're going to sue anyone, you may as well win. There's nothing wrong with asking for the association's expenses to be reimbursed by the homeowner if you have to hire the surveyor and a geotechnical firm (is that really necessary - what's wrong with a landscaping firm?), legal fees, and whatever else the association has to spend in getting this issue fixed.

Tit for Tat isn't a good HOA option and that's what usually gets boards into trouble and sometimes on the news. Calm the hell down and THINK THE STUFF THROUGH FOR A CHANGE!

Well said.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,060

Posted:

I agree with Shelia, the Association needs to use the money they (or perhaps, just you) want to spend to redo the landscaping and spend it on an attorney.

Again, do things the right way that minimizes the blow back onto the Association.

I think (tongue in cheek) that is what a CEO would do.

WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 11/09/2022 8:53 AM
Michael

You seem to be making a mountain out of a mole hill. It seems to me that what is needed is a survey then a landscaping company with all expenses billed to the owner. Also be dam sure the owner knows what work is being done versus having "strangers" parading thru his "property".

Agree

vis ta vie

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