Roof Replacement Issue

Started by LoriM15 • 7 replies • 239 views

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LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

This is not a huge issue, but one that is really bothering me because of the behavior of one of my fellow board members. We have two clubhouses. In 2017 we had hurricane Irma. After Irma, we had a few leaks in our 20+ year old tile roof. There was a loophole in the insurance laws at that time and many roofing companies were encouraging homeowners (and businesses) to sign an assignment of benefits of insurance proceeds and put in a claim for roof damage. They all claimed they could prove that the roof was damaged, even if there was no visible damage, by the hurricane. The roofer would take care of all costs of negotiation and lawsuits with the insurance company. In 2019, two years after the hurricand and right before this loophole was closed, a previous board signed an assignment of benefits with a roofer for both clubhouses. All we would be responsible for would be the deductible (about $100,000).

Since this agreement was signed over three years ago the roofer has come and repaired the roof for leaks a few times. Other than that we pretty much had no communication. One of our board members decided that he was the roof expert and would periodically call the roofing company but claimed he had no other information.

A month ago we had hurricane Ian. We didn't have major damage to the roofs, but we did have a few leaks causing interior damage. We have been waiting for new roofs for three years. The roofer came and did some minor repair but the insurance company said they couldn't add the roof damage to our claim since we have a previous claim. Needless to say we were frustrated with the three year wait, so I called the insurance company just to see what information I could get. It turns out that the claim was settled and the money was sent to the roofer on September 1. The "expert" board member is on vacation and while he barely uses email at all, he definitely doesn't while he's on vacation. He will have been gone a month when he gets back in two weeks. I called the roofer directly to find out when they were going to inform us about the settlement, only to find out that they called our board member right before his vacation and he told them he would take care of it when he got back. He did not inform anyone else, including our full-time property manager.

I was pretty frustrated with the roofer because he claimed he didn't have contact information for anyone else even though he knows we have a property manager and he had the office number. He told me last week that he would call and email the office right away to get the process started. I'm also upset that they have had our settlement money for two months and didn't bother to even get the process started (waited six weeks before calling the board member).

Bottom line - roofing company had our $300,000, didn't get us scheduled before hurricane Ian, and now we are looking at probably a six-month wait to get tile and the new roof. I'm upset with the board member for not sharing the information. I'm angry at the roofer for holding our settlement funds without telling us and we still haven't heard from them.

Two other board members don't think this is a big deal. One said we "need" the roofer to do a good job so I shouldn't hassle them. I'm at the point where I'm going to call our attorney to send a letter to the roofer demanding they start the process. Am I overreacting? Is it normal to wait this long after a settlement to be contacted?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

First I do NOT think it's your job to get this done. It should be handled together as a board. One POC only after the decision is made.

Also hate to tell you that you all fell for the oldest trick in the roofer's handbook. That is why this practice they were doing has ended. It's basically illegal and kept those con-roofers in business. If a roofer ever came up to me and told me that line, I would quickly walked away and reported them to local code enforcement/police if necessary. It shows how little you all may not be "experts" in roofing.

I would contact the BBB and get educated and find your next roofer from that list. They may be able to give you a few educational tips on hiring a roofer. It is one of those things that you really need to be up on. Not only that but ANY contractor like Electrician/Plumbers/Handy man.

It sounds like you do have your POC who is on vacation. Once they get back then they will have to handle it as stated. After this, I would talk to your insurance company, PM, and rest of the membership on best way in hiring a roofer in the future. This is NOT the way to do it.

I had roof damage years ago. The roofer tried to pull this scam. He also falsified the BBB stamp on his paperwork. So BBB s your best resource to confirm reports of contractors. Also had another roofer who tried to convince me that paying the insurance deductible would "handle" it. Not so fast... Now a days the rules have changed on that process. There really does have to be more proof of damages than just their word. Also get several quotes and check ou their work. It will make a difference in the future.

Former HOA President

AugustinD
Posts: 1,027

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LoriM15 on 11/06/2022 7:55 AM
A month ago we had hurricane Ian [specifically, Ian first struck Florida in late September]. We didn't have major damage to the roofs, but we did have a few leaks causing interior damage. We have been waiting for new roofs for three years [after damage from 2017's Hurricane Irma?]. The roofer came and did some minor repair but the insurance company said they couldn't add the roof damage to our claim since we have a previous claim. Needless to say we were frustrated with the three year wait, so I called the insurance company just to see what information I could get. It turns out that the claim was settled and the money was sent to the roofer on September 1.
[snip]

Bottom line - roofing company had our $300,000, didn't get us scheduled before hurricane Ian, and now we are looking at probably a six-month wait
Two other board members don't think this is a big deal. One said we "need" the roofer to do a good job so I shouldn't hassle them. I'm at the point where I'm going to call our attorney to send a letter to the roofer demanding they start the process. Am I overreacting? Is it normal to wait this long after a settlement to be contacted?

-- Because the present leaks can cause a bad situation to get worse, I say you are justified in wanting some questions answered.

-- Are you sure Hurricane Ian affected the roofer's start date for your HOA's clubhouse? Even without Ian, I can believe the roofer was pretty backed up and has been for maybe years.

-- Suppose the roofer had started work on September 10 and finished on September 20. Then in late September Ian hit and did more damage. What a mess, insurance-wise and hassle-wise for the board.

-- With interest rates on the rise, I do not appreciate the roofer sitting on this money. This $300,000 sitting around for six months is on the order of $3000 to $5000 of interest this roofing company is making. This interest arguably, belongs to the HOA.

-- I advise making sure all directors agree that the president is the liaison with vendors unless the president delegates this to others.

-- You are underpaid by a fortune.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

What Melissa and Augustin said. I'd also add a talk to your attorney post haste - this could get ugly.

And here are some things to consider when you DO hire a roofer (or any contractor for that matter)

1. Check if the roofer is licensed and bonded – your city or county building department may be able to help with this. For that matter, make sure they have workman’s comp insurance and require a lien release from all subcontracts be included in your contract. This way, if the main contractor stiffs the subcontractors, they can’t come after you for payment or place a lien on your property if they don’t get paid.
2. Ask for references (other HOAs) and check them (make them local, please). If possible, go to the communities to talk to those boards about their experiences. As Melissa noted, don’t forget to check with the BBB or your state consumer protection division to see if complaints have been filed and how they were handled. Having complaints isn’t an issue per se, but people blowing them off can be.
3. Hire a local company with an actual address – never work with anyone who rolls up in a truck or only has a cell phone or email to contact them.
4. Read the contract before you sign it and ensure you understand it. If you don’t understand it, don’t sign it. Get the association attorney to review it, if necessary. This also includes any guarantees. All contracts should have start and finish dates, a description of what will be done, the type and quantity of materials, which buildings will be worked on, who cleans up the work site (it should be them), etc.
5. Never pay all the money upfront – you shouldn’t have to start with more than a 20% downpayment. Pay the rest in increments as the work is completed (and inspected by you, your property manager, or a designee who knows what they’re doing).
6. Do some comparison shopping – have at least three estimates based on the same information. Get the biggest bang for your buck – you don’t have to pay the highest price, but being cheap AF never works.

Have you noticed how a lot of this sounds like something you’d do if you were getting work done on your own home? I’ve always felt boards should extrapolate these ideas when looking for contractors for the community, although there will be differences because you’re dealing with a lot more money and more property. Roofers are notorious for doing all sorts of shady ish to make money and unfortunately, you were had. Good luck to you.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 11/07/2022 10:31 AM
What Melissa and Augustin said. I'd also add a talk to your attorney post haste - this could get ugly.

And here are some things to consider when you DO hire a roofer (or any contractor for that matter)

1. Check if the roofer is licensed and bonded – your city or county building department may be able to help with this. For that matter, make sure they have workman’s comp insurance and require a lien release from all subcontracts be included in your contract. This way, if the main contractor stiffs the subcontractors, they can’t come after you for payment or place a lien on your property if they don’t get paid.
2. Ask for references (other HOAs) and check them (make them local, please). If possible, go to the communities to talk to those boards about their experiences. As Melissa noted, don’t forget to check with the BBB or your state consumer protection division to see if complaints have been filed and how they were handled. Having complaints isn’t an issue per se, but people blowing them off can be.
3. Hire a local company with an actual address – never work with anyone who rolls up in a truck or only has a cell phone or email to contact them.
4. Read the contract before you sign it and ensure you understand it. If you don’t understand it, don’t sign it. Get the association attorney to review it, if necessary. This also includes any guarantees. All contracts should have start and finish dates, a description of what will be done, the type and quantity of materials, which buildings will be worked on, who cleans up the work site (it should be them), etc.
5. Never pay all the money upfront – you shouldn’t have to start with more than a 20% downpayment. Pay the rest in increments as the work is completed (and inspected by you, your property manager, or a designee who knows what they’re doing).
6. Do some comparison shopping – have at least three estimates based on the same information. Get the biggest bang for your buck – you don’t have to pay the highest price, but being cheap AF never works.

Have you noticed how a lot of this sounds like something you’d do if you were getting work done on your own home? I’ve always felt boards should extrapolate these ideas when looking for contractors for the community, although there will be differences because you’re dealing with a lot more money and more property. Roofers are notorious for doing all sorts of shady ish to make money and unfortunately, you were had. Good luck to you.

Good advice.

LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

Thanks all. We are stuck with the roofer who we assigned benefits to because we signed a contract with them to negotiate for us and they have our settlement money from the insurance company.

I have a call into our attorney because we still haven't heard from them. I am most upset because if they had called us and we had started the roofing process before hurricane Ian, we would have had to wait for the tile but we would have been at the front of the line. The demand for contrete roof tile, even without a hurricane, is very high. Most of the time it is manufactured for the project so the wait time is long. Now, we are behind all of the homes they have contracted with for Ian damage, so instead of a few months it may be much longer.

The assignment of benefits loophole is the main reason the insurance industry in Florida is so broken. The inflated prices these roofers asked for and usually got from the insurance companies raised the rates for all of us. Our insurance bill for the association and my personal homeowners insurance bill both went up over 50% last year. Everybody was on the "free roof" gravy train and the consumers are the ones who paid for it.

I'm most angry about my fellow board member who went on vacation for four weeks without telling us he knew we got the settlement. Who does that?

BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217

Posted:

Everyone, please keep in mind the 'trades' are not always licensed in all states.

Roofers are not licensed in Texas. After every hailstorm, the affected neighborhoods are beset with pickups with magnetic signs stating the name of some roofing company which did not exist the day prior to the storm. They cruise for days and drive everyone nuts knocking on doors.

The sales pitch telephone calls are even more annoying.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Are you allowed just to call up the attorney? That costs money. Something that usually requires one POC to contact after approval from the board. Our lawyer charged us for each phone call or email. It was not that much but it is an expense someone is going to have to pay. Which if looking for blood they may be looking for yours since you did the calling...

Former HOA President

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