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NpB (Arizona)
Posts: 605
Posted:
Is there anything an HOA or an individual homeowner can do to influence who moves to a neighborhood?. Before I continue, just to make it clear from the start, I am in no way suggesting getting around the Fair Housing Act, which I respect and support.

The anecdotal perspective I am coming from is that "flippers" are the owners, albeit temporary, that cause the most issues (i.e. rules violations) and seem to have little regard for reading and abiding by rules. It's as if they have a mentality that violations/fines are part of the cost of doing business. They boast about how they are doing everyone a favor by raising everyone's price (which is irrelevant in the long term) and that the inconvenience of jackhammers on Sunday is worth everyone's housing value increasing.

Is there anything an HOA or individual owner can do to persuade a seller to sell to an end user vs a "flipper"? "Flippers" are not a protected class. I recall reading a couple of years ago that prospective buyers would write "love notes" to sellers, expressing how they would be the best fit for the house and what they planned to do to it. Has the reverse been attempted with a seller?

In my situation, there is a specific real estate agent who represents a good number of buyers in my neighborhood and brings a lot of "flippers" who don't abide by the rules. We are a strict HOA with enforcement of rules. One would think that these "flippers" would have conveyed to this real estate agent their experience with a strict HOA and getting fined, but maybe not.

Would it be proper or controversial to write to this real estate agent, with something along the lines of "Noticed you have been representing a lot of buyers in our neighborhood who end up "flipping" the house. Just wanted to let you know that FYI we are very strict with rules enforcement on renovations, noise., etc.."

Do you instead communicate to the "flipper" buyer on Day 1 that the HOA has strict enforcement of the rules and that the Board will be actively monitoring for violations?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Investors have been discussed previously on many threads.
Most of those dealt with renting.
The best way I have seen to minimize investors interested in renting is to amend the covenants to prohibit renting during the first year (or two) of ownership.

You ask an interesting question on flipping - those who purchase, fix up and resell (typically within a few months).

I personally don't have an issue with flippers as they usually make the property better in the long run.
That said, I do acknowledge issues can occur if the Board isn't checking up on things during renovations.

In my past Association, an active board would talk to the owner who is flipping and ensure that they comply with the covenants.
In Virginia, they also get anther opportunity to address issues in with the resale packet created by the HOA.
My past Association would always include more info then required by statute. Typically a welcome letter letting them know about the need for approval for exterior changes, etc.

General members can:
1) Talk to the new owners.
2) Keep the board informed of violations.

Hope this helps,

Tim
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Money talks and BS walks - that's the American way, although too many want to pretend it's not. Actually, it's human nature- I buy stuff for next to nothing, make a few cosmetic changes, then sell for twice what I paid, and perhaps more.

People are beginning to see what a lot of us board members, current and former, have noticed for years. I know what too many investors gave done to my own community, which is why I usually give a side eye to investor-owners who come on this website and moan about "the board won't let ne reng" or some such..

Tim suggested the best way educate honeownes planning to sell,, put in the prohibition about renting for two years (unfortunately, its probably too late to enact something like this in my community), and be fair and consistent in rules enforcement. It won't stop everyone, but it may slow things down.

Or wait for the economy- I saw an article today that said the housing market is cooling (my former supervisor is married to a realtor who said this would start right about now). Of course, there are a ton of reasons why and depends on where you are.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posted:
I think on balance flippers would improve a neighborhood. It sounds like you need to concentrate less on trying to influence who buys your homes and concentrate on finding ways to create /enforce rules to minimize disruption during remodeling.
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
I wonder what a real estate agent would do if they found out you talked a homeowner into not selling to a ready, willing and able buyer that he or she had brought to the seller?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnT38 on 10/27/2022 4:19 PM
I wonder what a real estate agent would do if they found out you talked a homeowner into not selling to a ready, willing and able buyer that he or she had brought to the seller?

Good point.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'd think flippers would break certain rules more than others. Noise after hours and on weekends, maybe parking violations. I'd s ask the board to increase those fines. I'd make sure the rules gave you leeway to call alleged violators to a hearing at the first violation and immediately. I'd make sure.

I'd make sure that every new owner gets a charming, neighborly welcome letter that includes a ...."Btw, to main the attractiveness and peaceful enjoyment of our community violations of our covenants and rules are dealt with quickly and decisively," or similar.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Flippers is a negative word. If "flipping" a home and the new owner pays their dues on time, I say flip as many as you want.
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 10/27/2022 4:42 PM
Flippers is a negative word. If "flipping" a home and the new owner pays their dues on time, I say flip as many as you want.

They also quickly raise the comparables used for setting home prices in the neighborhood.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnT38 on 10/27/2022 4:46 PM
Posted By JohnC46 on 10/27/2022 4:42 PM
Flippers is a negative word. If "flipping" a home and the new owner pays their dues on time, I say flip as many as you want.


They also quickly raise the comparables used for setting home prices in the neighborhood.

Good for us.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
That's a good question, at what price point do investors say naw I'll wait. A REA friend is still seeing a few transactions close that are cash buyers
of investment buyers.

1. Start lobbying to your state assemblyman and senator 2. Advocate for changes in your CC&R's to limit rentals with a buyers clause
that prohibit renting until after the first 3 years of ownership. Change your CC&R's to make sure renters and new owners are well aware of the governing documents.
Perhaps an "initiation fee" where the PMC goes over the governing doc and be stern on your violations.
Unfortunately the laws being passed do not protect the individual owner anymore and there seems to be an uptick in investment firms buying up properties.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
The problem Tim and David point out is the honest flipper that wants to better the neighborhood is throttled by silly laws that prevent some
houe flipping in some banking regs. It's moronic and it hurts the guy who wants a house and can't afford more money.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
The problem that NpB points out comprises solely flippers who break the rules while they're renovating homes. It's not about all flippers.
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LetA on 10/27/2022 5:21 PM
The problem Tim and David point out is the honest flipper that wants to better the neighborhood is throttled by silly laws that prevent some
houe flipping in some banking regs. It's moronic and it hurts the guy who wants a house and can't afford more money.

I have flipped many homes in the past and I can assure you a normal flipper's primary concern is not trying to make the neighborhood better. It's to improve the property and sell it for a profit. I also don't understand your comment on how flippers impact affordable housing. What they can do, if done right, is indirectly drive prices up by raising comparables used by real estate appraisers.
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnT38 on 10/27/2022 5:37 PM
Posted By LetA on 10/27/2022 5:21 PM
The problem Tim and David point out is the honest flipper that wants to better the neighborhood is throttled by silly laws that prevent some
houe flipping in some banking regs. It's moronic and it hurts the guy who wants a house and can't afford more money.


I have flipped many homes in the past and I can assure you a normal flipper's primary concern is not trying to make the neighborhood better. It's to improve the property and sell it for a profit. I also don't understand your comment on how flippers impact affordable housing. What they can do, if done right, is indirectly drive prices up by raising comparables used by real estate appraisers.

Can I get an Amen
AugustinD
Posts: 1,027
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpB on 10/27/2022 2:46 PM
The anecdotal perspective I am coming from is that "flippers" are the owners, albeit temporary, that cause the most issues (i.e. rules violations) and seem to have little regard for reading and abiding by rules. It's as if they have a mentality that violations/fines are part of the cost of doing business.
Put my vote down for changing the fine schedule; increasing the fines drastically; and making some extra dough for the HOA for all the rule-breaking the flippers perpetrate, burdening the manager and board alike. Make the system for fining as automaton like as possible.
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 10/27/2022 7:21 PM
Posted By NpB on 10/27/2022 2:46 PM
The anecdotal perspective I am coming from is that "flippers" are the owners, albeit temporary, that cause the most issues (i.e. rules violations) and seem to have little regard for reading and abiding by rules. It's as if they have a mentality that violations/fines are part of the cost of doing business.
Put my vote down for changing the fine schedule; increasing the fines drastically; and making some extra dough for the HOA for all the rule-breaking the flippers perpetrate, burdening the manager and board alike. Make the system for fining as automaton like as possible.

Are you suggesting two different fine schedules for two different classes of homeowners?
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Your problem isn't the flippers, who presumably will sell the home to a new owner who wants to live in a beautiful home.

Your problem is with investors who plan to make cosmetic improvements and install tenants who will pay top dollar in rent (and who often don't abide by the rules). This group can cause long-term damage - for instance, they probably won't serve on boards or do any other volunteer work, and banks won't lend to buyers if there are too many renters in the community.
NpB (Arizona)
Posts: 605
Posted:
CathyA3: I know every community is different, but in mine it is flippers who sell after renovating and do not rent the house out that cause the most issues.

Buyers who renovate and stay long term owner occupied do not cause problems.

What I do not understand financially is why people pay huge markups or profits to a flipper when they themselves can write a check to a general contractor who will renovate for less.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
In our HOA one cannot rent their home out during the first year of ownership. This stops investors looking to buy a home to rent it out.
MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462
Posted:
We're all house flippers.

Some of us just flip a little slower than others.
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MichaelT21 on 10/28/2022 7:42 AM
We're all house flippers.

Some of us just flip a little slower than others.

Very profound. Confucius?
AugustinD
Posts: 1,027
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnT38 on 10/28/2022 4:17 AM
Posted By AugustinD on 10/27/2022 7:21 PM
Posted By NpB on 10/27/2022 2:46 PM
The anecdotal perspective I am coming from is that "flippers" are the owners, albeit temporary, that cause the most issues (i.e. rules violations) and seem to have little regard for reading and abiding by rules. It's as if they have a mentality that violations/fines are part of the cost of doing business.
Put my vote down for changing the fine schedule; increasing the fines drastically; and making some extra dough for the HOA for all the rule-breaking the flippers perpetrate, burdening the manager and board alike. Make the system for fining as automaton like as possible.


Are you suggesting two different fine schedules for two different classes of homeowners?
Nope
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpB on 10/28/2022 7:19 AM
... snip lll

What I do not understand financially is why people pay huge markups or profits to a flipper when they themselves can write a check to a general contractor who will renovate for less.

* Convenience/want to avoid stress. Even with a contractor, they'll have to manage the manager and step in if things go off the rails. (My parents hired contractors to build two homes for them, and both times they quit talking to each other for extended periods. Definitely stressful times.)

* Don't think they know enough to avoid getting cheated.

* Crazy housing market has adjusted expectations.

* They're susceptible to the "pretty pictures" style of marketing instead of running the numbers.
AugustinD
Posts: 1,027
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpB on 10/28/2022 7:19 AM
What I do not understand financially is why people pay huge markups or profits to a flipper when they themselves can write a check to a general contractor who will renovate for less.
I think "delayed gratification" is unacceptable as an ethos for most people in the United States. We are an "instant this" and "instant that" culture. The accumulation of top quality stuff is how most people keep score.

My realtor last year pointed out that many flippers did shoddy work simply to take advantage of increasing housing prices. Buy, throw on a coat of paint, flip.
MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462
Posted:
I've watched "flip that home" or whatever it's called many times. What I have noticed is:

Purchase price + cost of renovation + my estimate of their personal time + time value of m sales price of home.

I am unimpressed with the return on investment from the homes I have seen on the TV show.
LayaS (Nebraska)
Posts: 249
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 10/28/2022 9:08 AM
Posted By NpB on 10/28/2022 7:19 AM
What I do not understand financially is why people pay huge markups or profits to a flipper when they themselves can write a check to a general contractor who will renovate for less.
I think "delayed gratification" is unacceptable as an ethos for most people in the United States. We are an "instant this" and "instant that" culture. The accumulation of top quality stuff is how most people keep score.

My realtor last year pointed out that many flippers did shoddy work simply to take advantage of increasing housing prices. Buy, throw on a coat of paint, flip.

I have seen that in my area as well. To add to the shoddy work, the area had a terrible flood in 2019. Flippers pick up some damaged homes cheap and fix them to look pretty. And increase the price as well. A good share of the town has to purchase flood insurance per federal flood rules too.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I agree with Michael. You have to understand the industry and have a good head for finance if you want to make money flipping. In periods of rising home prices, this looks like easy money to the inexperienced, so you get a lot of them.

Some flippers bought our foreclosure and IMHO overpaid at the auction - after which they had to pay for the renovations which cost a chunk since the previous owner had beaten the place up in addition to not paying assessments. (I live in the building next door, so I watched a steady parade of workmen coming and going, and this went on for months. Pretty sure they lost money on the deal, which is kinda typical for newbies.)

That said, you can get some good deals as a buyer. I almost bought a home in my realtor's HOA that was renovated by a first-time flipper, and it was well done and beautiful. Didn't have a fireplace, though, which was a deal breaker for me.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnT38 on 10/27/2022 5:37 PM
Posted By LetA on 10/27/2022 5:21 PM
The problem Tim and David point out is the honest flipper that wants to better the neighborhood is throttled by silly laws that prevent some
houe flipping in some banking regs. It's moronic and it hurts the guy who wants a house and can't afford more money.


I have flipped many homes in the past and I can assure you a normal flipper's primary concern is not trying to make the neighborhood better. It's to improve the property and sell it for a profit. I also don't understand your comment on how flippers impact affordable housing. What they can do, if done right, is indirectly drive prices up by raising comparables used by real estate appraisers.

When I was home buying 11 years ago, there was a house that my wife and I really really wanter. We bid at the offer price and the flipper wanted cash only. I
countered with offering to pay the HOA assessments of the current and waiting month and the same with the property taxes, he said no. My wife and I the next weekend
found a new construction spec home that would be ready in less than 30 days so we bought it. Guess who called me 32 days later saying he will agree to my counter offer.
To bad so sad, I am willing to bet if he took my offer in the first place we would have closed in less than 20 days. That it how flippers are affecting affordable housing.

If I was in charge I would make a law that says if you list a home to sell and demand cash only you have to wait 60 days to get your money.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
OK, since the subject has been changed, I'll tag along. I was a realtor a couple of times for a total of 5 years long ago. My experience was that many buyers have no imagination. When they see an outdated unattractive home, they cannot perceive ways it could be soooo much better. OR they do note how much nicer the home could be and don't want to go through the trouble of directing contractors, etc.

My spouse & flipped several homes, but as MichaelT puts it, we were slow flippers buying "fixer-uppers," living in them and rearing kids while doing much of the rehab ourselves. And in the end trading up after quite a nice return on our labor.

I'm aware of two flippers here. One bought, did the cheaper rehabs (i.e., didn't tear out the dated tub & shower surrounds or stone bathroom floors) and made a 30% return on his investment about 9 months ago. That condo would NEVER sell at that price today. The 2nd put a huge amount of expense in to a larger condo and changed out every detail over 4 months, but rendered it so custom that way too many buyers wouldn't want it. It's sitting on the market after 4 months. These sellers will not get their rehab $ plus realtor expenses, etc., back.

Back to agreeing with Aug as I advised way above. Make all rules that seem to be broken by flippers much stricter with much heavier fines and swift hearings (if required in AZ) for every owners. Don't hesitate to call cohering again for repeat violations. Build into certain fines that they can double after repeat violations within x months.
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LetA on 10/28/2022 9:30 AM
Posted By JohnT38 on 10/27/2022 5:37 PM
Posted By LetA on 10/27/2022 5:21 PM
The problem Tim and David point out is the honest flipper that wants to better the neighborhood is throttled by silly laws that prevent some
houe flipping in some banking regs. It's moronic and it hurts the guy who wants a house and can't afford more money.


I have flipped many homes in the past and I can assure you a normal flipper's primary concern is not trying to make the neighborhood better. It's to improve the property and sell it for a profit. I also don't understand your comment on how flippers impact affordable housing. What they can do, if done right, is indirectly drive prices up by raising comparables used by real estate appraisers.


When I was home buying 11 years ago, there was a house that my wife and I really really wanter. We bid at the offer price and the flipper wanted cash only. I
countered with offering to pay the HOA assessments of the current and waiting month and the same with the property taxes, he said no. My wife and I the next weekend
found a new construction spec home that would be ready in less than 30 days so we bought it. Guess who called me 32 days later saying he will agree to my counter offer.
To bad so sad, I am willing to bet if he took my offer in the first place we would have closed in less than 20 days. That it how flippers are affecting affordable housing.

If I was in charge I would make a law that says if you list a home to sell and demand cash only you have to wait 60 days to get your money.

Well if you had what you think was a bad experience than that must be the way it is for everyone else. Thanks for clearing that up.
AugustinD
Posts: 1,027
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnT38 on 10/27/2022 5:37 PM
I also don't understand your comment on how flippers impact affordable housing. What they can do, if done right, is indirectly drive prices up by raising comparables used by real estate appraisers.
The media has covered extensively this past year how the real estate run-up in prices (due to near zero mortgage interest rates) has driven property taxes up so much that folks in poorer communities end up in foreclosure.

It's a free market. But any assertion that the practices, that have led to flippers and investors driving up home prices, is good for neighborhoods is patently false. What has transpired has been wholly destabilizing to too many communities.

Whether dropping interest rates to supposedly save the economy during the pandemic remains the question.
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 10/28/2022 9:42 AM
Posted By JohnT38 on 10/27/2022 5:37 PM
I also don't understand your comment on how flippers impact affordable housing. What they can do, if done right, is indirectly drive prices up by raising comparables used by real estate appraisers.
The media has covered extensively this past year how the real estate run-up in prices (due to near zero mortgage interest rates) has driven property taxes up so much that folks in poorer communities end up in foreclosure.

It's a free market. But any assertion that the practices, that have led to flippers and investors driving up home prices, is good for neighborhoods is patently false. What has transpired has been wholly destabilizing to too many communities.

Whether dropping interest rates to supposedly save the economy during the pandemic remains the question.

In 2021 6.1 million homes were sold of which 321,000 were flipped. That's 5%. Don't give me this B.S that flippers are the problem. Like any segment of society some flippers are bad and I get that but they also have positive benefits that I doubt you would ever be willing to acknowledge when discussing this issue.
AugustinD
Posts: 1,027
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnT38 on 10/28/2022 9:52 AM
Posted By AugustinD on 10/28/2022 9:42 AM
Posted By JohnT38 on 10/27/2022 5:37 PM
I also don't understand your comment on how flippers impact affordable housing. What they can do, if done right, is indirectly drive prices up by raising comparables used by real estate appraisers.
The media has covered extensively this past year how the real estate run-up in prices (due to near zero mortgage interest rates) has driven property taxes up so much that folks in poorer communities end up in foreclosure.

It's a free market. But any assertion that the practices, that have led to flippers and investors driving up home prices, is good for neighborhoods is patently false. What has transpired has been wholly destabilizing to too many communities.

Whether dropping interest rates to supposedly save the economy during the pandemic remains the question.


Don't give me this B.S that flippers are the problem.
Uh huh. You can have back your BS that reflects not reading the post.

Gentrification and the like of course can also improve neighborhoods.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 10/28/2022 9:42 AM
Posted By JohnT38 on 10/27/2022 5:37 PM
I also don't understand your comment on how flippers impact affordable housing. What they can do, if done right, is indirectly drive prices up by raising comparables used by real estate appraisers.
The media has covered extensively this past year how the real estate run-up in prices (due to near zero mortgage interest rates) has driven property taxes up so much that folks in poorer communities end up in foreclosure.

It's a free market. But any assertion that the practices, that have led to flippers and investors driving up home prices, is good for neighborhoods is patently false. What has transpired has been wholly destabilizing to too many communities.

Whether dropping interest rates to supposedly save the economy during the pandemic remains the question.

You are good at researching this Aug, I believe it was back in 20005 the NV legislature capped home taxes at 3% and mad it so property value magically doubles the tax collected would still
be the same amount.
And then we have a crooked county assessor here in Clark County, they supposedly sent out 3x5 postcards to everyone asking them to affirm their property is their residence or a rental.
If the postcards were not returned they assumed your property to be a rental and assessed it at 8% instead of 3%. A I never received said postcard and B I have filed a homestead on my home
So WHY did the county send me a bill for 8%. All a bunch of CROOKS
LayaS (Nebraska)
Posts: 249
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 10/28/2022 9:29 AM
Didn't have a fireplace, though, which was a deal breaker for me.

My new house didn't have one so I bought one of those cheesy looking electric ones with faux stone and faky looking fire. Got to have a place to hang those Christmas stockings.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Thanks for the interesting stat, JohnT.
AugustinD
Posts: 1,027
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LetA on 10/28/2022 9:58 AM

You are good at researching this Aug, I believe it was back in 20005 the NV legislature capped home taxes at 3% and mad it so property value magically doubles the tax collected would still
be the same amount.
Which I think may be a good move to help preclude, for one, senior citizens on fixed incomes being forced to sell their homes just to pay the property taxes.

Time will tell more.
Quote:

And then we have a crooked county assessor here in Clark County, they supposedly sent out 3x5 postcards to everyone asking them to affirm their property is their residence or a rental.
If the postcards were not returned they assumed your property to be a rental and assessed it at 8% instead of 3%. A I never received said postcard and B I have filed a homestead on my home
So WHY did the county send me a bill for 8%. All a bunch of CROOKS
From my experience and reading: County tax assessors screw up often and in provable, non-debatable ways. There's a certain county treasurer, in charge of county property tax assessment, that I still want to see dragged across the coals. Why? Because nine months after selling my house in 2012, the tax assessor sent me a bill with penalty for not paying the taxes on the house. Huh? My share of the taxes had been paid at closing, as is the custom in my state. The idiots at the tax assessor had the wrong address listed in their records for the house. The new owner's bank never received the bill and so had not paid. It got resolved, and I paid nothing dollar-wise, except it cost me a lot of time. I wrote a letter to the bosses at the state offices about the county treasurer refusing to remove the penalty. The bosses at the state office challenged the county treasurer regarding the penalty. The county treasurer insisted the penalty had to remain. (The bank sighed and paid the penalty but also okayed me writing the letter to the state offices, complaining about the county treasurer.)

At least the bank was great. A lesser educated person would never have been able to get this sorted out.

For you, the problem appears to be correctable. Experience says: Fix it and move on. These mistakes will be come more and more common, IMO. One has to watch all those with whom one does business like a hawk. It was not this bad just a few years ago.
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 10/28/2022 10:08 AM
Thanks for the interesting stat, JohnT.

You bet. Topics like this are never as simple or cut and dry as some people on this forum would like to admit if it doesn't fit their narrative.
NpB (Arizona)
Posts: 605
Posted:
Some HOAs have restrictions such as waiting one year to rent after buying. Has a requirement of waiting one year after purchase date to sell ever been enacted or is that fraught with legal issues?
JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpB on 10/28/2022 10:30 AM
Some HOAs have restrictions such as waiting one year to rent after buying. Has a requirement of waiting one year after purchase date to sell ever been enacted or is that fraught with legal issues?

t

What happens when:

1.) Someone buys a home and their company transfers them when they have been in their home less than a year?
2.) Someone buys a home and dies and the home needs to be sold.
3.) Someone loses their job and needs to bail out of the house quickly.
4.) Someone decides to sell after 6 months because they don't like where they bought.
5.) A couple decides to divorce 6 months after buying a house.
6.) Etc., Etc.

AugustinD
Posts: 1,027
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpB on 10/28/2022 10:30 AM
Has a requirement of waiting one year after purchase date to sell ever been enacted or is that fraught with legal issues?
I have not heard of such a covenant (or amendment to the covenants).

Do many of the flippers own multiple homes? If so, this might be something that an amendment to the covenants could lawfully restrict.

Perhaps adding a covenant imposing a sizable reserve contribution (a percentage of the sale price?), as a condition of purchase, is appropriate. It might relieve some of the pain of flippers. In Arizona, this looks lawful. Introduction: https://combslawgroup.com/hoa-documents-transfer-fee/
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Our restriction is renting within ones first year of ownership. I have never seen Covenants banning a resale within any time frame
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LayaS on 10/28/2022 10:07 AM
Posted By CathyA3 on 10/28/2022 9:29 AM
Didn't have a fireplace, though, which was a deal breaker for me.


My new house didn't have one so I bought one of those cheesy looking electric ones with faux stone and faky looking fire. Got to have a place to hang those Christmas stockings.

I want an alternative source of heat when the power goes out in winter (I can't handle the cold). My townhome has a small cast iron direct vent gas stove (looks like a wood stove). Push a button and I've got heat - I can also make tea and heat soup on it if I want to.

My home is also on the south end of the building, with several large windows on the long south wall. I have sun all day long on sunny winter days. I love my home, which is why I put up with condo association nonsense. It would be difficult to replace this at a reasonable price point.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 10/28/2022 9:57 AM
P

Gentrification and the like of course can also improve neighborhoods.



Or they can jack up the property tax base so bloody high that long time homeowners can no longer afford to live in the house they put blood, sweat and tears in for who knows how many years. Gentrification has also had a horrible affect on communities of color (Google it if you dare).

It's another reason why some (not all, John!) investor/owners, flippers or whatever the hell you call them make me puke. In my own community, we may have had one or two flippers (one was our now-retired security officer - thankfully, he sold his homes to responsible people). Unfortunately, we had some who didn't know what they were doing, as Cathy noted, and soon weren't able to pay the bills and we had to do the usual sue-file-a-lien and sometimes ask for a sheriff's sale, but all too often, the HOA was left holding an empty bag.

I want to think that should I sell my house someday, I will have left it and the community in better shape than when I arrived 20 or so years ago (can't do much about the entire 'hood, but I do try to be a decent neighbor). However, some people don't necessarily think that way, and while I can't yell at someone who wants to make an honest living, I have also see what happens when you only think of the short term and nothing else.

Bottom line, NpB, you can't control how or why people think and act as they do. People make the effort to do things they care about, so when it comes to the HOA, it's better for the board to focus on what it can control - fair and consistent rule enforcement, reducing delinquencies or eliminating them altogether, keeping the common areas looking decent and ensuring the association finances are stable (including proper funding of reserves). Even that won't guarantee that life won't get in the way, so you have to stay flexible.


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
LayaS (Nebraska)
Posts: 249
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 10/28/2022 12:12 PM
Posted By LayaS on 10/28/2022 10:07 AM
Posted By CathyA3 on 10/28/2022 9:29 AM
Didn't have a fireplace, though, which was a deal breaker for me.


My new house didn't have one so I bought one of those cheesy looking electric ones with faux stone and faky looking fire. Got to have a place to hang those Christmas stockings.


I want an alternative source of heat when the power goes out in winter (I can't handle the cold). My townhome has a small cast iron direct vent gas stove (looks like a wood stove). Push a button and I've got heat - I can also make tea and heat soup on it if I want to.

My home is also on the south end of the building, with several large windows on the long south wall. I have sun all day long on sunny winter days. I love my home, which is why I put up with condo association nonsense. It would be difficult to replace this at a reasonable price point.

Sounds lovely and functional. My fireplace puts out heat but obviously not if the electricity goes out. I like the ambiance of a fireplace. My former house had a direct gas heat fireplace but the blower was electric so it wasn't an alternate source of heat either.

I was being ornery when I mentioned the Christmas stockings. Sorry to hijack the thread. I will be quiet now.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LayaS on 10/28/2022 12:32 PM
snip ...

Sounds lovely and functional. My fireplace puts out heat but obviously not if the electricity goes out. I like the ambiance of a fireplace. My former house had a direct gas heat fireplace but the blower was electric so it wasn't an alternate source of heat either.

... snip ...

I have a fan that works when the power is out. When it sits on top of a hot stove, the heat generates electricity in the base of the fan and causes the blades to turn. I love clever gizmos.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Gentrification and flippers CAN be two different things. Gentrification, a now-decades long phenomenon, is occurring in a neighborhood about 3 miles from us and is driving out families who've lived in it for generations. Many years ago it was the victim of so-called "urban renewal," which split the community in half with a major freeway running through it. It cohered, though, and built an incredible park under the overpass & on-ramps that is covered with amazing murals celebrating the culture of the inhabitants.

Sales prices have gone way up and so have rents. I suppose some buyers are flippers but most live there permanently and bought there because it suddenly became cool, urban hip, artsy, kinda edgy, etc. Because of Prop 13 in CA, the property taxes on long-term owners have not gone up.

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