VP gave lockbox codes to friends

Started by BrettH3 • 21 replies • 321 views

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BrettH3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 47

Posted:

We have a lockbox on our pool street gates which must be locked at 9pm. Only board members and vendors have the codes because it also allows them to access the pool pump room and storeroom containing the security system, computers, and pool furniture. Friends of the VP wanted to have an evening party at the picnic area within the gates so he gave them permission, never contacted the board, gave them the codes to unlock the gates. I found out when I went to close that evening, several families told me I “didn’t need to lock up because they have been given the codes.” Am I wrong in thinking this is a security breach? The VP thinks “it’s fine.” We have nothing in our documents about lockboxes.

AugustinD
Posts: 1,027

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BrettH3 on 10/22/2022 11:49 AM
We have a lockbox on our pool street gates which must be locked at 9pm. Only board members and vendors have the codes because it also allows them to access the pool pump room and storeroom containing the security system, computers, and pool furniture. Friends of the VP wanted to have an evening party at the picnic area within the gates so he gave them permission, never contacted the board, gave them the codes to unlock the gates. I found out when I went to close that evening, several families told me I “didn’t need to lock up because they have been given the codes.” Am I wrong in thinking this is a security breach?

No, you are not wrong.

Maybe you should get the guy on tape admitting he gave the codes to his friends?

Now the HOA/COA gets to arrange for the security codes to be changed. Who should pay?

(Aug sidebar: I think the threads that are reality checks are the best.)

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

I'd say it's a problem.

* The VP disclosed what may have been confidential information (and which will need to be changed unless you want these folks letting themselves in whenever they choose). What other confidential information will he think is "no big deal" and what are the potential consequences of that?

* Does your liability insurance assume that there will be lifeguards or safety protocols in place whenever the pool area is in use? Can you rely on random homeowners to lock up afterwards, or not? What would have happened if there'd been an accident? Or if the pool area was left unlocked, and people came in and were injured.

So... you have a board member who is not trustworthy and whose judgement isn't what it should be. If he were a paid employee, this could well be grounds for termination.

MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 462

Posted:

I would change the lockbox code and not give the VP the new code.

This only works if others are willing to step up to the plate to take on any volunteer work that the VP is no longer able / willing to do.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

You're on the Board, Brett, right? Does your assn. have written rules about the times the pool area may be used? If so and it states that the pool must be closed by 9pm, your VP clearly violated a rule. He, then should be called to an executive session hearing and the board should decide to fine him for breaking the rule. (Assuming you hav a fine schedule in your documents)

He also should be charged for the expense to change the code. This is the same as when you'd fine someone for damaging HOA common area. It might be called an "enforcement assessment" in your docs.

If your documents allow your Board to withhold amenities from violators, I'd also vote to not to provide him the new code for 30 or more days.

IMO directors who grab special privileges for themselves and who break rules, and are not held accountable is what gives boards bad reputations about such issues as favoritism, a arrogance, etc.

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 10/22/2022 1:40 PM
You're on the Board, Brett, right? Does your assn. have written rules about the times the pool area may be used? If so and it states that the pool must be closed by 9pm, your VP clearly violated a rule. He, then should be called to an executive session hearing and the board should decide to fine him for breaking the rule. (Assuming you hav a fine schedule in your documents)

He also should be charged for the expense to change the code. This is the same as when you'd fine someone for damaging HOA common area. It might be called an "enforcement assessment" in your docs.

If your documents allow your Board to withhold amenities from violators, I'd also vote to not to provide him the new code for 30 or more days.

IMO directors who grab special privileges for themselves and who break rules, and are not held accountable is what gives boards bad reputations about such issues as favoritism, a arrogance, etc.

Excellent advice.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

I say Guillotine him.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Friends or residents? Need more details.

Former HOA President

BrettH3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 47

Posted:

Residents who were his friends. The lockbox contains keys to all of our security areas, and they were not to be given out to residence.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

So renters? Or owners?

Former HOA President

MichaelH34 (North Carolina)
Posts: 179

Posted:

Melissa: "So renters? Or owners?"

A distinction without a difference because...

Brett: "The lockbox contains keys to all of our security areas"

So now you get to worry if any of them had those keys copied.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Owners may have a right to the keys. The renters do not. Plus who has the time to get a key, run to store get some made and come back? These people in a HOA would demand reimbursed for the cost of the copies.

So your saying "friends" but are they not your neighbors and fellow members?

Seriously why is it a thing to say a board member has friends in business or pleasure? I am not one for working with people I hate or living with them. Sounds more like you are not included in the conversation so you call them being "friends" as if that is a benefit.

So far I see that the VP let some fellow members use the facilities they also pay for. Change the locks if you think the members will do something. It is kind of a limited suspect list.

Former HOA President

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/24/2022 8:48 AM
Owners may have a right to the keys. The renters do not. Plus who has the time to get a key, run to store get some made and come back? These people in a HOA would demand reimbursed for the cost of the copies.

So your saying "friends" but are they not your neighbors and fellow members?

Seriously why is it a thing to say a board member has friends in business or pleasure? I am not one for working with people I hate or living with them. Sounds more like you are not included in the conversation so you call them being "friends" as if that is a benefit.

So far I see that the VP let some fellow members use the facilities they also pay for. Change the locks if you think the members will do something. It is kind of a limited suspect list.

You are something else. What you are saying is that a Board member is above the rules and regs for the community and is free to violate the rules as he/she sees fit.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

What violation? Point it out? They are MEMBERS! These were not "friends". Last I checked being a member of an HOA does not qualify you as a friend. It qualifies you as part owner of everything the HOA owns...

Which means the members have equal rights to access the pool area or any other common areas. Just because you keep security keys accessible in that area is the HOAs fault for not putting them in a secure area with limited access. Which is not defined here as that being the case.

Funny how you ask for more details how it changes the entire situation.

Former HOA President

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/24/2022 9:02 AM
What violation? Point it out? They are MEMBERS! These were not "friends". Last I checked being a member of an HOA does not qualify you as a friend. It qualifies you as part owner of everything the HOA owns...

Which means the members have equal rights to access the pool area or any other common areas. Just because you keep security keys accessible in that area is the HOAs fault for not putting them in a secure area with limited access. Which is not defined here as that being the case.

Funny how you ask for more details how it changes the entire situation.

Melissa you really need to learn how to read and comprehend the written word. Read the original post and see if you can figure it out. I know it will be hard but try your best.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

I think the OP could have been clearer and stated the lockbox info was given to fellow owner friends

JohnT38 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,631

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 10/24/2022 9:39 AM
I think the OP could have been clearer and stated the lockbox info was given to fellow owner friends

And also stated upfront that the code gave them access to other keys for locations off limits to non Board members.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Melissa, do reared: "Only board members and vendors have the codes...." You've taken Brett's sincere post to Crazytown.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I simply clarified the term "friends". Which in this case are indeed HOA members. How crazytown is that? I also define my HOA members as "neighbors". Go figure...

Former HOA President

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

It doesn't matter if they are HOA members, they may NOT have the codes. Please re-read.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I am just saying labelling them as "friends" is misleading... Sounds more like a drama question than the VP let other members have access codes.

Former HOA President

ND (PA)
Posts: 792

Posted:

Obviously you have lockboxes to keep things secure, limit access to only those who need, and protect what needs to be protected. Giving out the codes to anyone other than those who need and require access negates the protections that you have put in place and increase likelihood for an undesirable situation that you are trying to avoid in the first place by creating the protections you have.

Board should decide collectively what needs to be done. If there is a cost to change codes, then the Board decides if the one Member needs to pay for that. Perhaps after discussion, this Board Member will see that they made a mistake and perhaps they can still be trusted. But if they argue or fail to agree with the rest of the Board, then they need to pay to fix things and do not get access to new codes.

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