Collecting at closing on existing HOA lien.

I desperately need advice, thank you in advance.

Do lien’s have limitation and do lien’s transfer with a property, that the previous owner did not pays?

I’m in the middle of closing a property and the seller purchased a property in 2017 with the lien on it, do I have a right to collect on that lien?

AnyaN, who are you in this matter? Realtor for a buyer, or for a seller? HOA Manager? Director speaking for the entire Board?

Also please explain the timeline here. For starters, when was the lien first placed? Since the lien was first placed, when did the unit/home changed ownership?

The lien was put on the property in 2008, and are community really did not had a board but did had HOA.

AnyaN,

Is the lien recorded with the County Clerk?

How much money are we talking about?

Has the lien been renewed annually? I see signs that liens might expire after one year in Georgia.

Can your HOA pay to consult the HOA attorney here?

Has the Title Company offered any guidance?

Is this the timeline?

Before 2017 -- A lien is placed on a home at (let's call it) 13 Devil Street, in your HOA

2017 -- Buyer Jane Smith purchases the home at 13 Devil Street. For some reason, the lien was not paid off at closing. Title Company X may or may not have done its job. If the HOA was obliged to disclose to the buyer and seller that money was owed to the HOA, and the HOA did not do so, then some blame belongs to the HOA. Do you have a copy of any disclosure paperwork the HOA gave to the buyer and seller in 2017?

2022 -- Now Seller Jane Smith has a purchase agreement on the home at 333 Main Street. Title Company Z finds there is a lien on the home. Title Company Z says someone has to pay the lien.

Things to consider as you prepare for your meeting with the HOA attorney:

-- I think you should go ahead and attempt a brief consult with the HOA attorney. Why? because this question might arise again, and it would be worth it to have some answers.

-- I think you and the attorney want to keep in mind that the cost of consulting the attorney may quickly exceed the amount of the lien. I have concerns about passing the cost of this attorney consult along to the current owner. I think the HOA should pay for this consultation. (Usually the Declaration of the HOA/COA permits the costs of collection to be passed along to the owner. But here, I would not call this consultation a 'cost of collection.' Your attorney may have more to say on this, of course.)

Be prepared to provide the following information to the attorney:

-- Whether this HOA is subject to the Georgia POA Act.

-- Whether this HOA is a condominium and what year the condo was established.

-- If subject to the Georgia POA Act, I see signs that, even if the lien was not renewed, the amount owed remains on the home's account and is still owed. But you must try to nail this down with the attorney, if the attorney thinks this is worth pursuing.

-- If subject to the Georgia Condo Act, your COA may have lost the right to collect.

-- The lack of documentation and general slovenliness of the HOA here (not you; the corporation) argues for not pursuing the lien.

-- On the other hand, this "closing attorney" appears to want this cleared up, one way or another. The closing attorney may very well be protecting all involved here.

-- Emphatically, none of the above is legal advice. It's prep that might help you when you meet with this attorney and nothing more. I understand the seller and buyer want this deal to close and do not want hiccups like this portends to be. Good for you for getting right on it. That's good business, AFAIC, especially when your HOA/COA has a new owner. First impressions are everything. Be honest. Be professional. On the one hand, boards should not mess over the HOA by not collecting an assessment. On the other hand, the HOA may be on shaky ground, and the HOA should not mess over people (the seller and buyer) who may very well be innocent here.

Thank you so much AugustinD for your advice and help 🙏

I am planning on quitting in February, once I get the two roofs replaced. I am trying to honor my word with replacing the roofs.

Whoever takes over, I will provide them with three contracts for the management companies.

I am very honest person, and for the liability, I do not want to hire management company, personally myself.

I’m honestly exhausted, for me this is 24/7 volunteer. I’m even unable to work because I’m giving all of my time and some of my own money to help this community, some of the homeless don’t even appreciate everything I have done for them. I’m getting tired of verbal and mental abuse every single time they are delinquent on dues or breaking their own covenants.

Please make sure you discuss your situation with your HOA attorney. I'm very sorry you're such difficult condition inner HOA. what size is it?

You might want to consult with an attorney for your state laws. There could be little things that could jeopardize your position.

While this would not apply likely because a different state, this demonstrates an example how little things could harm your position:

In Texas, HOA are required to file management certificate with their counties, informing the public how to contact the HOA. That makes it easier for relators and title experts to confirm liens etc. The main penalty for not filing management certificate is that that if that HOA has any liens none would transfer if those properties are sold when there is no current management certificate in county filings.

Please consult with a qualified HOA lawyer. None of us are. I''m pretty super may NOT turn your hOA over to management company. Your covenants and also you Bylaws say you must have Board directors.

Ask you attorney what should you do if no other owners will serve.

I would pay $100 to get a sign made saying dues might increase 300% if no one volunteers to be on board and the HOA goes into receivership.

poor communication is a common HOA issue.
big BIG signs are simple way and most people see them to get attention.

AnyaN, Does your condo's declaration say it is subject to the Georgia Condominium Act? If so, Section 44-3-109 of the latter statute says liens lapse as follows:

The lien for assessments shall lapse and be of no further effect, as to assessments or installments thereof, together with late charges and interest applicable thereto, four years after the assessment or installment first became due and payable.

This might explain why the lien was not paid off at the 2017 closing.

Though I hear you that your COA has collected on older liens.

Anya

Are you asking as either the buyer or the seller or as a BOD Member wanting to collect the lien for the association? In any case, you have said the lien is about $1,000.00 and any involvement of an attorney could cost more. My first blush is kiss the $1,000.00 bye bye and move on.

I will just assume going forward that the OP's Association is subject to the Georgia Condo Act. It may not be, but pulling teeth on a simple issue as simple as this is tiresome.

It appears to me that there could be a conflict with the Georgia Condo Act and the Declaration. In a conflict between the statutes and the Declaration, the statutes prevail.

From reading the OP's posts here, I am convinced the OP should just listen to what the attorney says; get an education (of sorts); and have the COA pay every cent of the attorney's bill.

and if you act reckless and ignore state laws, privacy laws Fed. & state fair collection laws you might loose thousands if you get sued. IN NC the max violation for priavcy issues is $4000. We also have 3 years to collect on a lien.

Anya,

At closing the attorney contacts the HOA or Management Company and asks for a certification letter from the HOA asking for the HOA dues and if there are any outstanding balance on the property among other things. If there was a closing in 2017 and the HOA or manager did not include the amount due, I would think the HOA would have no recourse. If I was the buyer in 2017 and the HOA was trying to collect, I certainly would not pay the amount the previous owner accrued.

AnyaN, for what it is worth, I think that letter you wrote is pretty darn well-written for a volunteer HOA director.

One nit: I would have written:

"I do acknowledge there is a four year limitation to pursuing on delinquent dues and foreclosing on a lien against the property,... "

This assumes your governing documents (Declaration, Articles of Incorporation et cetera) state somewhere that the condo association is subject to the Georgia Condominium Act. If your governing documents are silent on this point, then the Georgia Condominium Act appears to me to be not applicable.

I see now that the "closing attorney" here is the seller's attorney.

I wonder if payoffs of liens older than four years have occurred in the past because the seller just wanted to get the sale completed. The seller figured the money spent to legally fight the lien at this point would exceed the amount of the lien?

I think the seller's attorney might very well go ballistic (on behalf of his/her client) here, especially if there are signs the HOA (via its representative) is going to do something that might cause the sale to fall through. The seller's attorney may counterattack, pointing out, for example, the questionable-ness and legality of whether there is even a board at this HOA, especially if the Bylaws require a board of ___ or more. (Georgia statutes require a minimum of one director.)

I am glad the OP is consulting the HOA attorney tomorrow.

If the lien wasn't satisfied during the prior sale, then the current buyer may have a clean title and thus not subject to the prior lien, no matter of the time frame. I believe it is time for the HOA to write off the debt and chalk one up for experience.

If I was either the buyer or the seller, I would be on the phone screaming nasty stuff at you.

After reviewing the above and all else, and if the seller came to this forum and asked for advice, I would advise the seller to go ahead and pay the lien and get the house sold, simultaneously directing my attorney to sue the OP personally along with the HOA, seeking compensatory damages; if possible, punitive damages and if allowed; attorney's fees.

AnyaN, you ask owners to follow the law. The only reason you have given for your not following the law is because you think you can maybe get away with it.

The Georgia legislature did not put that four year expiration date into a statute just to be cute. Your COA dropped the ball. Your COA messed up.

To be blunt, and to express my own opinion: Shame on you.

Not property to property, but seller to buyer. This HOA board is stressing me. I need to get off this website.

I like that, they are just practicing. When do they actually start doing it?

Again, you are clueless, as there are a number of things that a HOA or their managing agent are involved in when property changes hands in a HOA.

I have already said that I have spoken to the real estate attorney and I am planning on speaking to our HOA attorney tomorrow morning.

I am not the one that is breaking laws, I go strictly by the laws.

I am not the one that came from Dominica Republican and started child sex trafficking, child pornography and child abuse.

It is not my fault, nor the HOA that the buyer did not do properly title search before buying the property.

I am not the one that has husband, brother-in-law and oldest son facing to go to prison.

I look in interest of the while community, resigned homeowners and future buyers.

I had a lot of good homeowners move out do to their kids been victims. I do not have compassionate of any sort to the seller and their corruption.

It was disturbing when I was receiving messages from homeowners like this,

“Thank you. I appreciate it. Your sweet and I enjoy being able to have you as a neighbor. I am super upset about this now that my kids have possibly been affected. It makes me sick”

“I am waiting on another detective to call me back now”

And then sending off emails like this,

Good evening *****
I noticed that your renter has a child and I feel like you deserve to know this to notify your renter since I do not have a contact for him. This morning at 4:30 AM Homeland Security in armors and fully armed with the vest "on saying ice unit" was on the property. There were about 30 officers, investigating child pornography. Some mothers with kids are calling me in fear some of them are victims. The homeland security has broken in to one of the neighbors house and arrested father and the brother. They are confiscated belongings and I was told that today is a day one investigation. The three men bailed out and they live right next-door to your renter, since he has kids over the weekend please make sure that he watches them carefully.

Thank You,
*****

We do not have OP!! When the property was in the middle of being build our covenants and bylaws came out. Is there a way they can block this website so I can stop receiving this emails, please 🙏