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JimA19 (Georgia)
Posts: 54
Posted:
it seems that private investment organizations have discovered an investment model whereby they buy private homes and refurbish them and either rent or sell. return on investment is reported to be very good. has anyone had experience with these. Can our HOA incorporation offer any protection from this?
RogerJ1 (Texas)
Posts: 550
Posted:
If the investors repairs or improves a a run-down house, and either sells it or rents it long-term to same tenant, it would be a benefit to the home owners in the area likely. The only downside I could see is if the investor operated the house as a daily rental, an AirBnB for example, (people renting by the day for parties, criminal acts from day renters etc.) For that risk you could adopt a restriction that prohibits day/short term rental of properties - I think some HOAs restrict rental less than six months or more.

There is also a risk that developers could buy half the properties then vote to dissolve an HOA so they could turn the area into commercial development. To prevent that your Association could set a lower percentage to amend the CCRs but set a very high rate to abolish the CCR entirely. For example, it could amend the CCRs to set a minimum 90% vote to end the restrictions, then the developers would have to buy almost all the homes in order to make the area commercial then at least all would be fairly paid for their properties versus the last sellers being runoff by the developers.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
If you are saying that you want investors not to purchase in your community, a good deterrent is a requirement of no renting during the first x years of ownership. To do this, you would have to amend the covenants.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
The problem is what exactly? Your going to get investors who will pay the dues most likely. That is a good thing. Plus most of them will not want to be involved with the HOA. If they rent them out, then they will most likely be more hands off with the HOA. If they sell the house, that is even better. That means a new owner/member in the HOA that is to pay dues.

So what is the complaint exactly? Just that you don't understand how the new way of Real estate is going? Right now it's investors targetting ANY home not just in HOA's. They pay good money, fix them up, and then rent/sell the property. A good business plan if you ask me.

Former HOA President
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Back between 2008 and 2011 we had a Home flipper who happened to live in our Ca. HOA start buyer some of the homes that were being foreclosed on in our HOA. They put high end updates and sold many for great profits. We also had a few investors that bought cheap and tried to make rentals out of them. They did the bare minimum and tried to get them on the rental market quickly as people were losing their homes but still wanted to live in a nice neighborhood. I actually really appreciated the first flipper who took his time and upgraded the whole community with just a couple of dozen flips.

Changing the rules to stop one type of investor could also stop all investors.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I'd be OK with it only if tbe homes were then sold to owner occupants. However, I live in a townhouse community and have seen how much trouble investor-owners cause. Too many font pay attention to who they're renting to and don't care how much trouble they tenants cause. There's a revolving door if odopkevmoving in and out, creating more trash and noise throughout the community.

Investors are only interested in the rent and do they yell about assessments having to be increased because they don't want those eating into profits. They certainly don't get active with the board and it's already hard enough to get people to join and stay there.

In some areas, these investment companies are having up rates so much, it's more and more difficult to find affordable housing. They've even targeted communities of color to the point long time residents can't afford to live there because the property taxes have risen to 8nfinity and beyond.

On its face Investor owners sounds like a good idea and there are good ones, but I'm cynical about the rest because I've fount too many don't give a flying fig about anything but money.

How to stop it? Well you can't dictate who people can sell to, but many communities are beginning to amend their documents to require the owner wait two or three years before renting out the place. However enforcement can be very challenging and I haven't seen anyone on this website come up with an effective 2ay to do this because some people will have financial hardships that require renting for a shirt time and others will game the system

Another thing that could help is rules enforcement that's fair, consistent and the board doesn't hesitate to drop the hammer when everything else has failed. That's not always 3asy either, because you can face appeal after appeal, run all over creation trying to serve court summons and the only who come out ahead are the lawyers.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 10/05/2022 2:41 PM
If you are saying that you want investors not to purchase in your community, a good deterrent is a requirement of no renting during the first x years of ownership. To do this, you would have to amend the covenants.

yes this is what we are trying to do right now.

1/3 of the homes sold in our city last year were bought by corporate companies turning them into rentals.

vis ta vie
DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JimA19 on 10/05/2022 2:04 PM
it seems that private investment organizations have discovered an investment model whereby they buy private homes and refurbish them and either rent or sell. return on investment is reported to be very good. has anyone had experience with these. Can our HOA incorporation offer any protection from this?

I am hoping to address this in our community. Here are some thoughts I have documented:

Lease Restriction Suggestions

1. Lease Requirements

Any rental must require a lease agreement with the following requirements:

• Lease must include a clause that specifies homeowner may evict tenant and end the lease if
they violate the association’s rules.
• Lease must include a clause that specifies homeowner may pass violations fees on to the
tenant.
• All leases shall be in writing and shall be for an initial term of no less than six months.
• Notice of any lease, together with such additional information as may be required by the
Board, shall be given to the Board by the Lot Owner within ten days of execution of the
lease.
• The Lot Owner must make available to the lessee current copies of the Declaration, Bylaws,
and the rules and regulations available from the Board.
• The lease must list all residents who will reside at the property
• The number of tenants in a property may not exceed the number of bedrooms plus two.
That is, a four-bedroom home may have no more than six tenants.
• The lease must forbid pets of any kind
• The lease will specify that tenants may not bring guests to the amenities
• Any homeowner who does not notify the board of a lease, fails to provide a copy of the
lease to the board, or fails to include in the lease all of the terms required will be subject to
fines that should be listed in our Fines Schedule.

2. Rental Immediately after Purchase
A homeowner may not lease or rent their home until at least one year has passed since their
purchase date. A homeowner with a hardship may request a temporary waiver of this
restriction and the board may, at its sole discretion, grant such waiver. Waiver will be automatic
under the following circumstances:

• Homeowner is called to serve in the military
• Homeowner has been transferred for their job to a town more than 100 miles from (our town)

3. Rental Cap
No more than 10% of homes in the community may be rented or leased. That would be 65
homes.

4. Whole Home Only
Lot Owners entering into a lease agreement may only lease the entire home. This is to prevent
turning the home into a multi-family unit
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Rental limitations seem to be the best approach, but some may require amending the CC&Rs. In addition, some states do not permit certain rental limitations. So everyone needs to know their state's statutes on this topic. They may need to know their municipality's possible restrictions too. Agreeing with Shelia, strict, immediate enforcement of Rules & Regs helps limit violations.

Our newly restated CC&Rs permit the HOA to evict tenants after due diligence has been tried to correct violations.

Like Mark, we too had a lot of flippers even before the GR and during it. Subsided since then. With this latest hot market, which definetly is cooling in my urban area, we had only 1 flipper among the 12 condos that sold over the past 12 months and the timing was exceedingly lucky for them.

DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 10/05/2022 4:26 PM
I'd be OK with it only if tbe homes were then sold to owner occupants. However, I live in a townhouse community and have seen how much trouble investor-owners cause. Too many font pay attention to who they're renting to and don't care how much trouble they tenants cause. There's a revolving door if odopkevmoving in and out, creating more trash and noise throughout the community.

Investors are only interested in the rent and do they yell about assessments having to be increased because they don't want those eating into profits. They certainly don't get active with the board and it's already hard enough to get people to join and stay there.

In some areas, these investment companies are having up rates so much, it's more and more difficult to find affordable housing. They've even targeted communities of color to the point long time residents can't afford to live there because the property taxes have risen to 8nfinity and beyond.

On its face Investor owners sounds like a good idea and there are good ones, but I'm cynical about the rest because I've fount too many don't give a flying fig about anything but money.

How to stop it? Well you can't dictate who people can sell to, but many communities are beginning to amend their documents to require the owner wait two or three years before renting out the place. However enforcement can be very challenging and I haven't seen anyone on this website come up with an effective 2ay to do this because some people will have financial hardships that require renting for a shirt time and others will game the system

Another thing that could help is rules enforcement that's fair, consistent and the board doesn't hesitate to drop the hammer when everything else has failed. That's not always 3asy either, because you can face appeal after appeal, run all over creation trying to serve court summons and the only who come out ahead are the lawyers.


The thing about rules enforcement is that the homeowner is fined, not the lessee, and tenants rights are strong. So the HOA needs to require safeguards in the lease agreement, and needs a copy of all lease agreements. Then they do need to, as you say, enforce the rules strictly. Especially lawn care and keeping up the home.

WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidG45 on 10/05/2022 6:08 PM
Posted By JimA19


Any rental must require a lease agreement with the following requirements:
• Lease must include a clause that specifies homeowner may evict tenant and end the lease if
they violate the association’s rules.
• Lease must include a clause that specifies homeowner may pass violations fees on to the
tenant.
• All leases shall be in writing and shall be for an initial term of no less than six months.
• Notice of any lease, together with such additional information as may be required by the
Board, shall be given to the Board by the Lot Owner within ten days of execution of the
lease.
• The Lot Owner must make available to the lessee current copies of the Declaration, Bylaws,
and the rules and regulations available from the Board.
• The lease must list all residents who will reside at the property
• The number of tenants in a property may not exceed the number of bedrooms plus two.
That is, a four-bedroom home may have no more than six tenants.
• The lease must forbid pets of any kind
• The lease will specify that tenants may not bring guests to the amenities
• Any homeowner who does not notify the board of a lease, fails to provide a copy of the
lease to the board, or fails to include in the lease all of the terms required will be subject to
fines that should be listed in our Fines Schedule.


f

I'm guessing any exsissting landlords will toilet this list of intrusive rules. our hoa tried to implement something similar and it failed because home owners that rent hated the huge hoa overreach.

what you dont' realize is that half of the crap in your list is something landlords dont' want anyways. land lords don't like pets or sneaking in extra occupants, or tenants that dont' care of the yard, etc. Tenants do that crap against the landlords will.

And many tenants wont' care about the fines if you live in a state that is debt friendly and their wages can't be garnered. might as well put the presure on the owner who has a huge financial stake in the outcome.

vis ta vie
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I agree with others that lease restrictions - especially a ban on renting for the first year or two of ownership - are probably the only effective tool, and that there is a window of opportunity that closes pretty quickly once you start getting rentals in your community.

Ideally we could convince developers of the value of including such a provision in the CC&Rs from the get-go. (FWIW, the new home builder I work for does this.)

This may be an uphill battle. You have to be realistic about the fact that you're up against the Big Money Crowd. This means you have to convince developers that lease restrictions are in their best interest - eg. people won't buy their homes if they believe that their communities will become overrun with tenants. It would be nice to convince lawmakers are well, but you know.... $$$$$.

The ironic thing is that tenants are attracted to HOA/COA rentals because of the high proportion of owner-occupants in the community. So investors are actually undermining their main selling point while also adding some distinct disadvantages (absentee landlords who may or may not know what they're doing).

So... education and lobbying efforts may help:

* Prospective buyers should be encouraged to avoid communities without a robust lease restriction in the CC&Rs.

* Developers need to know that lease restrictions are in their best interest unless they plan to sell entire communities to investors.

* Tenants need to understand the disadvantages of living in a community with a large number of absentee landlords whose only interest in the community is the rent check. (In this respect, a well-managed rental community is probably a better bet.)

* Boards need to see the writing on the wall and hop on the lease restriction amendment while the lease numbers are low enough that the amendment can pass.

* And boards need to educate the homeowners:

- Too many owners may think "oh, I may want to rent out my place in the future" and not realize that by the time they get around to it, the community may be unappealing enough to discourage good tenants.

- If this is a condo community, there is always the possibility of investors buying up enough units to deconvert the entire HOA/COA to a rental community and forcing out the remaining owners.

- The interests of owner-occupants and those of the investor/landlords do not coincide, and the owner-occupants get the short end of the stick:. 1. They have the risks and responsibilities of home ownership along with the disadvantages of living in a rental community. 2. Too many rentals can result in depressed home prices since buyers won't be able to get a mortgage. 3. Too many rentals often results in greater numbers of violations of the restrictions and rules, making the community less pleasant to live in. 4. Communities that are completely owner-occupied can still have problems getting enough volunteers to serve on the board and handle other chores - this problem gets even worse when a significant proportion of owners don't live in the community.

JimA19 (Georgia)
Posts: 54
Posted:
I received many comments and suggestions. thank you, very helpful in scoping this issue
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Our Covenants say a unit cannot be rented during the first year of ownership. So far, this has stopped any investment companies. We have kept our "eyes shut" when a family member of the buyer was involved. Several are adult children. Another is the father of the owner.
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidG45 on 10/05/2022 6:08 PM
Posted By JimA19 on 10/05/2022 2:04 PM
it seems that private investment organizations have discovered an investment model whereby they buy private homes and refurbish them and either rent or sell. return on investment is reported to be very good. has anyone had experience with these. Can our HOA incorporation offer any protection from this?

1. Lease Requirements

Any rental must require a lease agreement with the following requirements:

• Lease must include a clause that specifies homeowner may evict tenant and end the lease if
they violate the association’s rules.
• Lease must include a clause that specifies homeowner may pass violations fees on to the
tenant.
• All leases shall be in writing and shall be for an initial term of no less than six months.
• Notice of any lease, together with such additional information as may be required by the
Board, shall be given to the Board by the Lot Owner within ten days of execution of the
lease.
• The Lot Owner must make available to the lessee current copies of the Declaration, Bylaws,
and the rules and regulations available from the Board.
• The lease must list all residents who will reside at the property
• The number of tenants in a property may not exceed the number of bedrooms plus two.
That is, a four-bedroom home may have no more than six tenants.
• The lease must forbid pets of any kind
• The lease will specify that tenants may not bring guests to the amenities
• Any homeowner who does not notify the board of a lease, fails to provide a copy of the
lease to the board, or fails to include in the lease all of the terms required will be subject to
fines that should be listed in our Fines Schedule.

Isn't a lot of this already in Delaware law, so you don't need all of it in your documents?

The davis-stirling site is big on putting this language into a lease addendum, and then requiring the lease addendum. Seems easier than trying to get landlords to try to write these legal provisions into a lease.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WendyM5 on 10/06/2022 3:58 AM
Posted By DavidG45 on 10/05/2022 6:08 PM
Posted By JimA19


Any rental must require a lease agreement with the following requirements:
• Lease must include a clause that specifies homeowner may evict tenant and end the lease if
they violate the association’s rules.
• Lease must include a clause that specifies homeowner may pass violations fees on to the
tenant.
• All leases shall be in writing and shall be for an initial term of no less than six months.
• Notice of any lease, together with such additional information as may be required by the
Board, shall be given to the Board by the Lot Owner within ten days of execution of the
lease.
• The Lot Owner must make available to the lessee current copies of the Declaration, Bylaws,
and the rules and regulations available from the Board.
• The lease must list all residents who will reside at the property
• The number of tenants in a property may not exceed the number of bedrooms plus two.
That is, a four-bedroom home may have no more than six tenants.
• The lease must forbid pets of any kind
• The lease will specify that tenants may not bring guests to the amenities
• Any homeowner who does not notify the board of a lease, fails to provide a copy of the
lease to the board, or fails to include in the lease all of the terms required will be subject to
fines that should be listed in our Fines Schedule.



f

I'm guessing any exsissting landlords will toilet this list of intrusive rules. our hoa tried to implement something similar and it failed because home owners that rent hated the huge hoa overreach.

what you dont' realize is that half of the crap in your list is something landlords dont' want anyways. land lords don't like pets or sneaking in extra occupants, or tenants that dont' care of the yard, etc. Tenants do that crap against the landlords will.

And many tenants wont' care about the fines if you live in a state that is debt friendly and their wages can't be garnered. might as well put the presure on the owner who has a huge financial stake in the outcome.

What David posted is pretty typical of the rental restrictions I've seen, with some exceptions. I disagree that it's overreach. People forget that members of an association aren't free to act as they please - they have obligations to their fellow members, especially in condo communities.

The limit on the number of people based on the number of bedrooms is probably a local ordinance. It's not the HOA getting intrusive - every rental in that area would have to comply with this.

Forbidding pets may be difficult in a community that allows them - however, a landlord in such a community is allowed to forbid pets if he wants to. Leases can be more restrictive than the CC&Rs as long as they comply with the state's landlord-tenant laws.

Forbidding tenants to bring guests to the amenities may be hard to enforce even if it's legal. IMHO you shouldn't have rules that can't be effectively enforced - it just encourages a contemptuous attitude.

Tenants won't care about fines because the HOA will fine the landlord unless the CC&Rs allow it to fine the tenant. I think that opens the door to legal wrangling between the association and the landlord (eg. tortious interference in a contract). Our association attorney emphasized that the association's legal relationship is with the landlord, not with the tenant, and that we should direct everything to the landlord.

However, a savvy landlord will put a clause in the lease allowing him to pass fines on to the tenant, which is perfectly OK. The savvy landlord will also include a clause that will allow eviction after a certain number of proven violations (well managed apartment communities in my area have such language in their leases, and certain violations are "one strike and you're out").
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
Some communities have a restriction that no owner (person, corporation, etc.) can own more than 2 or 3 number of units (lots).

I would consider amending your documents to add that. Existing owners would be grandfathered for what they own, but not for future purchases. Investors may try to circumvent the rule by putting properties in different names, such as different family members or different LLCs, so it is also necessary to put in wording to prohibit such ownership.
AugustinD
Posts: 1,027
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JeffT2 on 10/06/2022 6:44 PM
Some communities have a restriction that no owner (person, corporation, etc.) can own more than 2 or 3 number of units (lots).

I would consider amending your documents to add that. Existing owners would be grandfathered for what they own, but not for future purchases. Investors may try to circumvent the rule by putting properties in different names, such as different family members or different LLCs, so it is also necessary to put in wording to prohibit such ownership.
Worth noting IMO: Georgia statute section 14-3-802 permits only "natural persons" to serve as directors of nonprofit corporations. As long as the OP's bylaws permit only members to be on the board, and as long as the Bylaws do not create a way for corporations (that own units/homes in the COA/HOA) to get around this, the COA/HOA can prohibit corporations from sitting on the board. That means that even the partners in an LLC, that owns a condo unit, may not sit on the Board, since these partners are not on the home's deed.

Georgia and many states are crystal clear that they do not want corporations playing games (by getting on the boards of nonprofits, for one), exactly as JeffT2 describes.

MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 858
Posted:
Yes, we had a company purchase a townhome within our association from the owners estate, fixed it up and now has put it on the market. What we have done in our association by a 98% owner vote approval, to insert in our Declaration a line that states that no owner my lease their unit until they have lived in the unit for two years. Our Declaration had put in long ago not rentals, or VRBOS etc.
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
I found restrictions from different communities that directly prohibit any owner from owning more than a few units.

1. A board rule from Florida:
"Owners/family unit may not own more than two (2) units in XX One."

2. from Louisiana:
"No Unit Owner shall own more than three Units at any given time. This section shall not apply to Unit Owners who own more than three units as of October 30, 2019, as said Unit Owners shall be 'grandfathered' in and exempt from this Section."

[note: this is really bad grandfathering, because it lets an owner who already owns more than three units to continue buying more units. Maybe they needed those owners to get enough votes to pass this amendment.]

3. Delaware condo:
"No Unit Owner shall own, directly or indirectly, in trust, as a majority owner of an entity, or otherwise, a legal or beneficial interest in more than two (2) Units of XX Condominium at the same time, provided that this restriction does not require those Unit Owners who own more than two Units on the date of recordation of the Certificate of Amendment evidencing this Amendment to divest any of his/her/its Approved Rental Units."

4. From a condo in Florida:
"No more than two (2) apartments my be owned at any one time by a person, his/her spouse, or ownership by a trust where the person or his/her spouse is the trustee or beneficiary to the trust, with the exception of the Association itself, a first mortgagee obtaining ownership through a deed in lieu of foreclosure and anyone obtaining ownership through a mortgage foreclosure sale. Any ownership in excess of the limits set forth in this section existing at the time of passing this amendment will be grandfathered in and may continue."

[note the definition of "person" has to include corporations, LLC etc., which it often does.]
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I doubt that a restriction on the number of units owned by a single individual will be effective against any institutional investors.

For one, it's too easy to evade this through the use of shadow corporations. Tracking down the true owners is probably well beyond the skill level of board members and property managers, not to mention that it takes time and resources to do this research and the association may well have to pay for this.

Second, assuming you could track down the true owners, how do you plan to keep them out? Can you stop a sale in progress? Unlikely, which leaves you with trying to enforce the restriction after the sale has occurred. Does the association really have the ability to get them out? The only option I can see working is imposing enough financial penalties to make their investment unprofitable. But I question whether laws will allow an HOA to fine an owner into oblivion, and if you're in a state that doesn't allow foreclosure for fines, you're out of luck. Institutional investors have enough money to say "bite me" to most anything the HOA can do to them. And speaking of which....

... you're up against the Big Money guys. If I were going to bet on who is going to win this confrontation, my money is on them. It's not a level playing field, and they have the clout to get the laws changed to suit them.

A restriction like this may work against the smaller "mom and pop" investors but not the big guys, and that who we're increasingly up against.

AugustinD
Posts: 1,027
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 10/09/2022 12:23 PM

For one, it's too easy to evade this through the use of shadow corporations. [snip]
A restriction like this may work against the smaller "mom and pop" investors but not the big guys, and that who we're increasingly up against.
Hence the requirement in many states (including Georgia) for directors of nonprofit corporations to be "natural persons" (and so not corporations). [wink]

Seriously, by my reading and as noted elsewhere at this forum, these laws prohibiting corporations* from being on boards were created precisely to thwart shadow corporations from perpetrating all manner of mayhem and mischief.

* This includes prohibiting the corporation from just picking a 'corporate representative'; who is a natural person; but whose name is not on the deed; and so said named person is not a member in the first place, meaning the person is not qualified to be a director (unless the bylaws offer a patch for such situations).
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 10/09/2022 12:39 PM
Posted By CathyA3 on 10/09/2022 12:23 PM

For one, it's too easy to evade this through the use of shadow corporations. [snip]
A restriction like this may work against the smaller "mom and pop" investors but not the big guys, and that who we're increasingly up against.
Hence the requirement in many states (including Georgia) for directors of nonprofit corporations to be "natural persons" (and so not corporations). [wink]

Seriously, by my reading and as noted elsewhere at this forum, these laws prohibiting corporations* from being on boards were created precisely to thwart shadow corporations from perpetrating all manner of mayhem and mischief.

* This includes prohibiting the corporation from just picking a 'corporate representative'; who is a natural person; but whose name is not on the deed; and so said named person is not a member in the first place, meaning the person is not qualified to be a director (unless the bylaws offer a patch for such situations).

I think that requiring directors to be "natural persons" may help stop some forms of mischief, such as deconversions. But it won't stop all of the issues associated with the majority of residents being tenants rather than owners - and I think that's what many of the articles dealing with corporate owners buying up HOA properties are focusing on.

If you're trying to address the latter problems, then the "natural persons" requirement is overkill and not necessarily effective. Many investors do own property under their own names - do we want to keep them off the board, and what reason can you come up with to justify it?

In particular, states that are all gung ho on property rights and homeowners being allowed to rent out their homes would probably oppose this. So the "natural persons" requirement may have a hard time passing muster in these states.

Interesting question: what happens when so many of the owners are absentee landlords that the community can't form a functioning board? You'll potentially have that issue even if the landlords are all natural persons.

(As far as I know, the corporate investors who were involved in the 2008-2012 condo deconversions didn't use shadow corporations, they operated openly since what they were doing was perfectly legal. There are legit reasons to obscure ownership but usually it's something less savory, such as evading regulations of some sort.)
AugustinD
Posts: 1,027
Posted:
I agree that often times, corporations simply buying up units or homes and exercising their voting rights on xyz issue as owners, without even getting on the board, can cause (lawful) mayhem all by itself. E.g. and as you indicated, with enough owners' votes, condo associations can be dissolved.
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 10/09/2022 12:23 PM
I doubt that a restriction on the number of units owned by a single individual will be effective against any institutional investors.

For one, it's too easy to evade this through the use of shadow corporations. Tracking down the true owners is probably well beyond the skill level of board members and property managers, not to mention that it takes time and resources to do this research and the association may well have to pay for this.

Second, assuming you could track down the true owners, how do you plan to keep them out? Can you stop a sale in progress? Unlikely, which leaves you with trying to enforce the restriction after the sale has occurred. Does the association really have the ability to get them out? The only option I can see working is imposing enough financial penalties to make their investment unprofitable. But I question whether laws will allow an HOA to fine an owner into oblivion, and if you're in a state that doesn't allow foreclosure for fines, you're out of luck. Institutional investors have enough money to say "bite me" to most anything the HOA can do to them. And speaking of which....

... you're up against the Big Money guys. If I were going to bet on who is going to win this confrontation, my money is on them. It's not a level playing field, and they have the clout to get the laws changed to suit them.

A restriction like this may work against the smaller "mom and pop" investors but not the big guys, and that who we're increasingly up against.


It isn't foolproof. It may depend on your community's resolve.

Some of the wording I gave has restrictions on family members and people having ownership (interest) in corporations with different names. I'm sure there is much better language.

When lawyers contact an association in regard to a closing, this is a good time to (try to) stop the sale of extra properties. Inform all parties that the governing docs prohibit multiple property ownership, and prohibit renting in the first year of ownership.

One investigative trick is to look at the accounts that are used to pay the monthly assessments, to see if the payments are coming from the same source for multiple properties.

I think a community should add language that the owner pays the legal fees in a legal action to force an owner to sell their extra properties.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JeffT2 on 10/10/2022 2:31 PM
... snip...
It isn't foolproof. It may depend on your community's resolve.

Some of the wording I gave has restrictions on family members and people having ownership (interest) in corporations with different names. I'm sure there is much better language.

When lawyers contact an association in regard to a closing, this is a good time to (try to) stop the sale of extra properties. Inform all parties that the governing docs prohibit multiple property ownership, and prohibit renting in the first year of ownership.

One investigative trick is to look at the accounts that are used to pay the monthly assessments, to see if the payments are coming from the same source for multiple properties.

I think a community should add language that the owner pays the legal fees in a legal action to force an owner to sell their extra properties.

Yeahbut....

I fear that in most cases this will boil down to legal action of some sort, and HOAs/COAs don't have the deep pockets needed to really make these provisions stick. Resolve needs financial assets to back it up.

I also wonder if passing legal fees onto the owner of multiple properties is legal. Maybe, I just don't know. Unfortunately, this is another instance of where an owner with deep pockets can litigate until his opponent runs out of money.

Provisions like the ones above can work against individuals who buy up several condos, for instance, or for the smaller "mom and pop" investor LLCs. But I'm pretty convinced that they will not work against big corporate investors unless HOAs/COAs as a group can convince the big guys that investments like this are not easy money. And HOAs/COAs don't have the money or the organizational firepower to make this happen.

I hate it that this isn't a level playing field. In the end it will make housing increasingly unaffordable for many and will further concentrate wealth in the hands of those who already have it. I just don't see any options beyond nibbling at the problem around the edges.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Oddly enough, this just arrived in today's snail mail:

"{Name Redacted} is the new way to sell your home! Skip the hassle of listing, showings and months of stress, and close on your own timeline. Get a free offer ...

Skip the hassle of listing, showings and months of stress, and close on your own timeline. Get a free offer ...

Browse homes
{Name Redacted} makes buying a home easier, gives you an edge over ...

Buy & Sell
With {Name Redacted} Complete, we combine selling, buying, and ...

Pricing
You can sell your home directly to us, or get help listing it. Either ..."


Google says that {Name Redacted} was founded in 2011 by group of Chinese investors. In their words, "We are veteran investors in Greater China and possess considerable experience and expertise with Greater China equities, having worked together since 1997."

These are the kinds of deep pockets we're up against.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
That does not mean they are aiming for HOA. They are aiming to buy property whether or not it is in a HOA. Many homes are in HOA now a days. So can not say they are aiming for an HOA. It is where the property resides already. Not like it can leave it.

Former HOA President
AugustinD
Posts: 1,027
Posted:
The media reports amply on COAs and HOAs spending tens of thousands of dollars, and sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars, in litigation. I for one can see a HOA/COA spending the money to enforce covenants concerning multiple ownership of units or lots. It's one corporation against another. Furthermore, where a corporation owning multiple units sues the HOA/COA, the HOA/COA's insurance may very well kick in, with the insurer paying for the legal defense.

As for covenants that pass fees onto specific owners under specific circumstances: Unilateral attorney fees clauses in contracts for the greater part are lawful.

I do not want to get anyone's hopes up. A board and possibly the owners en masse likely will have to be aggressive to thwart takeovers by corporations buying up enough units to control voting on critical issues.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
There seems to be stats on everything nowadays, so I wonder if there might be some on the % of associations a that are majority-owned by investors.

Maybe Wendy can produce the stats that say 1/3 of her city's homes(not not solely HOA homes) bought in 2021 were bought by investors.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 10/11/2022 6:00 AM
Oddly enough, this just arrived in today's snail mail:

"{Name Redacted} is the new way to sell your home! Skip the hassle of listing, showings and months of stress, and close on your own timeline. Get a free offer ...

Skip the hassle of listing, showings and months of stress, and close on your own timeline. Get a free offer ...

Browse homes
{Name Redacted} makes buying a home easier, gives you an edge over ...

Buy & Sell
With {Name Redacted} Complete, we combine selling, buying, and ...

Pricing
You can sell your home directly to us, or get help listing it. Either ..."


Google says that {Name Redacted} was founded in 2011 by group of Chinese investors. In their words, "We are veteran investors in Greater China and possess considerable experience and expertise with Greater China equities, having worked together since 1997."

These are the kinds of deep pockets we're up against.




Yup.

A relative has been debating what to do with an elderly parent's home because money's needed for assisted living, and lots of people have suggested responding to these types of inquiries to get rid of the house quick and get money immediately. This stuff makes it sound really easy, as some will say you can leave furniture in the house and nix doing any repairs. I suspect these investors take advantage of the situation and make offers that are lower than the appraised value of the house (assuming anyone bothers getting one).

I've been trying to convince the relative to at least get the house appraised and inspected in order to get some sort of idea as to what the house should go for because the parent spent years saving and then paying for the house, and keeping it up. At least, try to settle for a price that reflects that. The relative has since decided to go with a regular realtor and is making it clear he should avoid selling the house to an investor as much as possible. Don't know how successful it'll be, especially since I get the feeling this market is beginning to slow, but we'll see.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Fyi when sold my last house I got an "investor" to buy it. They paid twice what purchased for originally and over my sale price.

Mind you this was during the "boom". The house had already remodeled myself. Was able to sell it as is. It was a good deal overall for both parties.

Now do I like the whole investors buying and renting Uber high trend going on now a days? Not that much as it hurts new young people buying first homes etc ... However, was it worth it? Yes for my situation. It was a good thing to unload the house instead of making it my own rental property.

Again they are not focusing on HOA. That is where the property are.

Former HOA President
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/11/2022 6:47 AM
That does not mean they are aiming for HOA. They are aiming to buy property whether or not it is in a HOA. Many homes are in HOA now a days. So can not say they are aiming for an HOA. It is where the property resides already. Not like it can leave it.

They may or may not be aiming for HOAs. But HOAs and COAs are disproportionately affected when a large, well financed entity begins to buy up property. I suspect that lawmakers and other elected officials did not envision something like this when they jumped onto the community association gravy train. People need to wake up and see what's coming.

One reason for aiming at HOAs and especially COAs is that the association does some of the work for the landlords, unlike with homes outside of these communities. That helps increase the return on the investment and makes it a more attractive target.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Fyi: the "new" tactic in my area now is that investors are straight out building houses just for rentals. You can not purchase the houses at all.

It is almost a new form of HOA. The investor actually owns the houses and property. It is then managed by a management company. So it is basically an all inclusive HOA situation. There are no real owners on board. Maybe just advisory at best.

That is the new trend not focusing on buying HOA up.

Former HOA President
MaxB4
Posts: 3,513
Posted:
I've managed over 150 properties over 13 years and never had an single investor own more than one unit in a complex. Now I have had board members own multiple units.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Re Max's remark, that's what I was trying to get at above. Are invest using in HOA to the extent they can control an HOA a widespread phenomenon?
DavidG45 (Delaware)
Posts: 994
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 10/12/2022 10:07 AM
Re Max's remark, that's what I was trying to get at above. Are invest using in HOA to the extent they can control an HOA a widespread phenomenon?

I don’t think that has become an issue, yet.

I do believe a large number of rentals, especially in a suburban, single family residence community, could potentially have a negative impact on the community. And I believe we may be on the leading edge of it becoming a full blown trend. That’s why I am urging my neighbors to get ahead of the curve and implement rules now to protect us.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Oh, I entirely agree, David that a large % of rentals in an HOA is not a good thing for numerous reasons. Lenders don't like it either.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 10/12/2022 10:07 AM
Re Max's remark, that's what I was trying to get at above. Are invest using in HOA to the extent they can control an HOA a widespread phenomenon?

I think that condo communities are more at risk than HOAs, especially ones that are "distressed" in some way - that allows investor groups to snap up multiple units at lower prices.

When I Googled "condominium deconversion", Google showed separate searches for Florida. Illinois, and Texas - so they're definitely a thing in certain states. Ohio's condo law also contains a provision addressing deconversion. Searching for "HOA deconversion" points to articles about condos, not HOAs.

Are HOAs less vulnerable to becoming "distressed"? Maybe. The two types of association attract a different demographic, with first time buyers and retirees more likely to buy condos. These groups often don't plan to stay in their homes very long and may be more willing to make decisions that maximize short term benefits at the expense of longer term well being of their communities.

My sense is that investors are more interested in HOAs for the rental income or flipping the properties. However, having a greater number of investor owners (and votes) can allow the investors to control an association in ways that serve their interests rather than those of the owner occupants. So even if this was unintended, the possibility exists.

My biggest concern with investors snapping up properties, whether in community associations or not, is that it reduces the amount of affordable housing for those who want to own their own homes. Some of the articles I've read lately contained examples of corporate investors targeting lower income neighborhoods, where they can buy more properties for fewer dollars. For many, the equity in their homes represents the largest part of their net worth - removing this option reduces their financial stability and that's not good, for them or for society as a whole.

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