unit owner hasn't paid condo fee

JackS15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 84

Posted:

We have a unit owner who hasn't paid their condo fee in 168 days. What is the best, cheapest way to collect the fees? I found on the web that the mortgage company may pay them?
Does anyone know this process for this? If we hire an attorney do you know what a reasonable rate is? our property management found one at a 300 hourly rate, 150 paralegal rate.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Do you have a policy on what is considered late? Is that known? Typically you place a lien for the amount owed. That will include the filing fee and accumulates as time goes on. They can not sell till paid

Do not sue. Bad idea

Former HOA President

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Jack

I cannot speak for MA, but in some states a lien can be filed by a Member of the BOD as in no lawyer needed. I have seen some go the Small Claims route to collect.

JackS15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 84

Posted:

yes we have a policy. we also notified the unit owner by mail 30 days and 60 days, not including multiple calls and emails.

by sue do you mean foreclose on the unit?

JackS15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 84

Posted:

i think i get it we put a lien on the property then the mortgage company gets involved and pays it off in order to preserve their investment and charges the homeowner.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I do not think that is the process. Do not think typically the bank steps in. That is more wishful thinking than reality.

Consult a lawyer about the lien process in your state. It is different for everyone.

You do not sue for a foreclosure. You close a lien out in foreclosure. A foreclosure just stops the bleeding.

Former HOA President

AugustinD
Posts: 1,027

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JackS15 on 10/04/2022 7:09 AM
yes we have a policy. we also notified the unit owner by mail 30 days and 60 days, not including multiple calls and emails.

-- I am glad you have a policy. But it sounds like maybe it has not been tested and so might need some tweaking?

-- Since this seems to be the first instance of a meaningful problem, this is truly an opportunity to be clear to the community that this is not acceptable and bare some teeth (wild dog style) about folks who do not pay what the covenants (to which they agreed) say they must pay.

-- You gotta check and see what the law says on debt collection and also comply exactly with what the covenants and state statute permit.

-- Do your Declaration and Bylaws permit billing unit owners for attorney fees involved in collecting? This is important. Sometimes one letter from an attorney informing the owner of how her/his bills from the COA are now going to go sky high can be enough to shake that money from the owner.

-- Nationwide, I think the two best options are: (1) Place a lien and forget about it, for the most part. The association will collect when the unit next sells. (2) Hire a collections attorney specialized in HOA/COA debt collection. These options are not in any particular order. In your case, I would hire the collections attorney for at least a consult and likely would vote for a collections attorney. To be clear to the community how serious I take one owner freeloading off the other owners. (And yes, I know stuff comes up. But I want to hear from the owner what is going on and I want the owner on a payment plan. Why? For the well-being of all the other little old gentlemen; little old ladies; folks laid off and working two shifts at Olive Garden and Autozone; and the disabled who are struggling to make ends meet but do pay their COA/HOA assessment on time. These last two years I have re-invented myself into the "Personal Responsibility Advocate.")

JackS15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 84

Posted:

"Why? For the well-being of all the other little old gentlemen; little old ladies; folks laid off and working two shifts at Olive Garden and Autozone; and the disabled who are struggling to make ends meet but do pay their COA/HOA assessment on time. These last two years I have re-invented myself into the "Personal Responsibility Advocate.")"

I have a hard time feeling sorry for her as she lied to get the place. She in the top floor overlooking the ocean in a two bedroom unit but lives alone. The unit is affordable but in-order to get it but back in the day you didn't need to be married you just had to pretend you had a significant other etc. Every time we ask her why she hasn't paid she has a different excuse but hasn't paid anything yet. she lives out of her means and needs to find a small one bedroom unit somewhere that she is able to afford.

-- Do your Declaration and Bylaws permit billing unit owners for attorney fees involved in collecting? This is important. Sometimes one letter from an attorney informing the owner of how her/his bills from the COA are now going to go sky high can be enough to shake that money from the owner.

i am going to research this right now. Thanks!

JackS15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 84

Posted:

10. Enforcing obligations of Unit Owners pursuant to and in accordance with provisions of Chapter 183A, this Trust, the Master Deed and these By-Laws, including, without limitation, the power to seek equitable relief or damages for failure to comply with such obligations, the power to impose charges or to charge interest for the late payment of Common Expense, and to levy reasonable fines, and other charges against the Unit Owner of persons for whom a Unit Owner is responsible, for violations of the Master Deed, Trust, Bylaws, Title Conditions, restrictions, rules or regulations of the Trust.

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AugustinD
Posts: 1,027

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JackS15 on 10/04/2022 8:03 AM
10. Enforcing obligations of Unit Owners pursuant to and in accordance with provisions of Chapter 183A, this Trust, the Master Deed and these By-Laws, including, without limitation, the power to seek equitable relief or damages for failure to comply with such obligations, the power to impose charges or to charge interest for the late payment of Common Expense, and to levy reasonable fines, and other charges against the Unit Owner of persons for whom a Unit Owner is responsible, for violations of the Master Deed, Trust, Bylaws, Title Conditions, restrictions, rules or regulations of the Trust.

Cool. As it happens, Chapter 183A gives this more teeth. As a good start IMO, from https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartII/TitleI/Chapter183A/Section6:

The organization of unit owners may also assess any fees, attorneys' fees, charges, late charges, fines, costs of collection and enforcement, court costs, and interest charged pursuant to this chapter against the unit owner and such assessment shall constitute a lien against the unit from the time the assessment is due, and shall be enforceable as common expense assessments under this chapter.

Tack on this short and sweet statute section:
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartII/TitleI/Chapter183A/Section7
(Translation: Pay up, all of it including attorney fees, now.)

All of Chapter 183A is accessible here: https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartII/TitleI/Chapter183A

AugustinD
Posts: 1,027

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JackS15 on 10/04/2022 7:53 AM
She in the top floor overlooking the ocean in a two bedroom unit but lives alone. The unit is affordable but in-order to get it but back in the day you didn't need to be married you just had to pretend you had a significant other etc. Every time we ask her why she hasn't paid she has a different excuse but hasn't paid anything yet. she lives out of her means and needs to find a small one bedroom unit somewhere that she is able to afford.

Just curious here: By any chance was "back in the day" before 1988?

Because in 1988, Congress amended the Fair Housing Act to prohibit discrimination on the basis of 'familial status,' meaning that after 1988, a condo association could not require a person to be married or have a significant other as a condition of owning a unit and becoming a member.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I am sorry but why are you putting standards on how someone should live? So what if she is an unmarried woman with a two bedroom place? You mean us single women can only work crappy jobs, live in one bedroom apartments, and own broken down cars always in the shop till our "prince" comes in?

What does it concern you except paying ones dues? Unless your full time military deploymed there is no excuse. Place the lien and let it play out as it should for anyone not paying.

BTW ... I am a single woman in a 4 bedroom house with 3 cars. My job is great. Pay my HOA dues and mortgage. It annoys me to no end when people say I can not own a house or a nice car because I am not married. They assume I live in a one bedroom condo or apartment with multiple cats. That is what us single women SHOULD be doing. Why do we need a big house or car that runs?

Sorry but that attitude sets me off.

Former HOA President

AugustinD
Posts: 1,027

Posted:

This is going to be good.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 10/04/2022 8:27 AM
This is going to be good.

Before looking into late fees, liens, and collections, I strongly advise reading up on the Fair Housing laws and what can happen when boards violate them (even shooting off your mouth unwisely can get your association into trouble).

TL/DR: The penalties for Fair Housing violations can be painful and expen$$$ive.

Signed,
Single Female, Owns Condo Free and Clear, and Knows Lots about Money
(grabs the popcorn)

AugustinD
Posts: 1,027

Posted:

I was bo-oorn to be a Coal Miner's Daughter

But then I sang me a fortune and bought a cond-o, in Bo-ooston Proper

They didn't want me, they wanted hubby Doo

I told them they were loons

and sued them from the harbor to Butcher Holler...

JackS15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 84

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 10/04/2022 8:22 AM

Posted By JackS15 on 10/04/2022 7:53 AM
She in the top floor overlooking the ocean in a two bedroom unit but lives alone. The unit is affordable but in-order to get it but back in the day you didn't need to be married you just had to pretend you had a significant other etc. Every time we ask her why she hasn't paid she has a different excuse but hasn't paid anything yet. she lives out of her means and needs to find a small one bedroom unit somewhere that she is able to afford.

Just curious here: By any chance was "back in the day" before 1988?

Because in 1988, Congress amended the Fair Housing Act to prohibit discrimination on the basis of 'familial status,' meaning that after 1988, a condo association could not require a person to be married or have a significant other as a condition of owning a unit and becoming a member.

no this condo was built in early 2000's.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Thankfully, Melissa called you out on the marriage piece - it was sexist and you know it. From this point on, please stay on topic - how to collect unpaid assessments. You will note it won't make a difference if you're dealing with married or single people.

Since you have a policy, I don't know why you don't go ahead and enforce it. Don't your documents already have language in it about a homeowner's legal obligation to pay assessments? Have you read them? If she (or he or they) doesn't pay, the association should do what anyone would do when there's a contract and the other side doesn't comply with his/her end - you take legal action against them. I understand your concern about expenses because it's not cheap or a quick process, and in some cases, filing a lien is the best you'll be able to do.

Your questions indicate to me that your board may not have ever had a discussion about the next steps if people didn't pay for whatever reason.
Part of that discussion may need to include measuring the amount owed vs. your chances of collection vs. how much in legal expenses the association will have to pay to pursue the debt. If no one's ever thought that far, I suggest you sit down with your association attorney and tweak your policy as needed, then send a copy to all homeowners, so they'll know this is how the association will roll going forward. One item to add - homeowners will be required to reimburse the association for all collection costs incurred in pursuing the debt. Sometimes, that'll be enough to wake the delinquent homeowner up and talk to the board about a payment plan.

You didn't say how much this lady owes, so I'd start with a nastygram from the association attorney. There should be a deadline in which she has to respond, and if she doesn't, the letter should state what's next - a lawsuit, lien, maybe both. Depending on the amount owed, you may be able to sue in Small Claims Court, where you wouldn't need an attorney, although you should talk to him or her because the attorney may need to take over if you're not successful. Have the nastygram sent certified, so you'll have proof of delivery and the person signing for it, or not. If there's no response, pull the trigger.

Suing people is easy, collecting on a judgment, not so much, so brace yourself for more expenses. As others have said, you may need to file the lien and let time do the rest. Eventually, this will show up on the lady's credit report and that may prevent her from getting decent credit until this lien is removed. If she has a mortgage, I believe the mortgage company will also get a notice - that may spark them to step in, although in my five years as HOA treasurer, I learned most don't give a rip about the Association getting its money - if there's a foreclosure, they'll get dibs on any sales price because they have a secured interest in the property.

Read some of the older articles on this website about collections and you'll see information about payment plans, bankruptcies, bank foreclosures and all that stuff - you need to know about these and other obstacles in collection. And if you don't collect, the amount will have to be written off and you'll need to understand how that will impact the association budget. Finally, you may want to check out the CAI website for education materials on assessment collection - they can help you evaluate your policy and add and subtract to it as needed. Good luck to you.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Jack wrote "...she lied to get the place. She in the top floor overlooking the ocean in a two bedroom unit but lives alone. The unit is affordable but in-order to get it but back in the day you didn't need to be married you just had to pretend you had a significant other etc."

This part confuses me & perhaps others. Are you saying, Jack, that somehow this was an "affordable housing unit" based on some kind of government or local program? And that it had to be purchased by a household of two? But she was only one person so lied to get this unit?

Even if so, what should concern you & the Board, Jack, is getting her to pay NOT her truthfulness. Our HOA uses a collection attorney as described by Augustin above.

JackS15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 84

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 10/04/2022 9:42 AM
Thankfully, Melissa called you out on the marriage piece - it was sexist and you know it. From this point on, please stay on topic - how to collect unpaid assessments. You will note it won't make a difference if you're dealing with married or single people.

Since you have a policy, I don't know why you don't go ahead and enforce it. Don't your documents already have language in it about a homeowner's legal obligation to pay assessments? Have you read them? If she (or he or they) doesn't pay, the association should do what anyone would do when there's a contract and the other side doesn't comply with his/her end - you take legal action against them. I understand your concern about expenses because it's not cheap or a quick process, and in some cases, filing a lien is the best you'll be able to do.

Your questions indicate to me that your board may not have ever had a discussion about the next steps if people didn't pay for whatever reason.
Part of that discussion may need to include measuring the amount owed vs. your chances of collection vs. how much in legal expenses the association will have to pay to pursue the debt. If no one's ever thought that far, I suggest you sit down with your association attorney and tweak your policy as needed, then send a copy to all homeowners, so they'll know this is how the association will roll going forward. One item to add - homeowners will be required to reimburse the association for all collection costs incurred in pursuing the debt. Sometimes, that'll be enough to wake the delinquent homeowner up and talk to the board about a payment plan.

You didn't say how much this lady owes, so I'd start with a nastygram from the association attorney. There should be a deadline in which she has to respond, and if she doesn't, the letter should state what's next - a lawsuit, lien, maybe both. Depending on the amount owed, you may be able to sue in Small Claims Court, where you wouldn't need an attorney, although you should talk to him or her because the attorney may need to take over if you're not successful. Have the nastygram sent certified, so you'll have proof of delivery and the person signing for it, or not. If there's no response, pull the trigger.

Suing people is easy, collecting on a judgment, not so much, so brace yourself for more expenses. As others have said, you may need to file the lien and let time do the rest. Eventually, this will show up on the lady's credit report and that may prevent her from getting decent credit until this lien is removed. If she has a mortgage, I believe the mortgage company will also get a notice - that may spark them to step in, although in my five years as HOA treasurer, I learned most don't give a rip about the Association getting its money - if there's a foreclosure, they'll get dibs on any sales price because they have a secured interest in the property.

Read some of the older articles on this website about collections and you'll see information about payment plans, bankruptcies, bank foreclosures and all that stuff - you need to know about these and other obstacles in collection. And if you don't collect, the amount will have to be written off and you'll need to understand how that will impact the association budget. Finally, you may want to check out the CAI website for education materials on assessment collection - they can help you evaluate your policy and add and subtract to it as needed. Good luck to you.

No it was not sexist I can careless that she is a woman. Someone mentioned they may being struggling and i pointed out that the person lied to get the affordable unit. The multi bedroom unit should have been for a family instead of one person. They put these restrictions to help the many not for one person to be selfish. If she wanted an affordable unit she should have said the truth and she wouldn't be in this financial burden she is in right now.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

So, it seems, Jack, that this unit and maybe all units were in some sort of "affordable units" govt. program of some kind?

In any event, just focus on getting your HOA's delinquencies solved, not the delinquent's conduct.

AugustinD
Posts: 1,027

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JackS15 on 10/04/2022 10:42 AM
No it was not sexist I can careless that she is a woman. Someone mentioned they may being struggling and i pointed out that the person lied to get the affordable unit. The multi bedroom unit should have been for a family instead of one person. They put these restrictions to help the many not for one person to be selfish. If she wanted an affordable unit she should have said the truth and she wouldn't be in this financial burden she is in right now.

All right.

Evidently all readers here should just know a priori [wink] that "affordable unit" means a unit over which either the Boston Housing Authority; the Boston Planning Department; or both have a lot of control (via deed restrictions that the city sets in advance of completion of the condo), including setting income limits for households of various sizes.

JackS16 has said elsewhere that his condo's units are sold via the BHA's "affordable lottery." I gather one does not get into the lottery for any particular unit unless one first meets the criteria for the particular lottery.

On the one hand, the deadbeat here allegedly claimed, under some kind of oath with legal force (I bet), that her household consisted of two and had such-and-such income. She got into the lottery and won the right to buy the unit.

But I think the blame here should land far more on the city for not verifying the woman's household qualified for the lottery. I would let this aspect go (as I believe JackS16 is doing). As for the assessments owed, and if this is the first serious delinquency: Go after her full force.

Credit to KerryL1 for getting the thread re-directed to this path.

JackS15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 84

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 10/04/2022 10:58 AM

Posted By JackS15 on 10/04/2022 10:42 AM
No it was not sexist I can careless that she is a woman. Someone mentioned they may being struggling and i pointed out that the person lied to get the affordable unit. The multi bedroom unit should have been for a family instead of one person. They put these restrictions to help the many not for one person to be selfish. If she wanted an affordable unit she should have said the truth and she wouldn't be in this financial burden she is in right now.

All right.

Evidently all readers here should just know a priori [wink] that "affordable unit" means a unit over which either the Boston Housing Authority; the Boston Planning Department; or both have a lot of control (via deed restrictions that the city sets in advance of completion of the condo), including setting income limits for households of various sizes.

JackS16 has said elsewhere that his condo's units are sold via the BHA's "affordable lottery." I gather one does not get into the lottery for any particular unit unless one first meets the criteria for the particular lottery.

On the one hand, the deadbeat here allegedly claimed, under some kind of oath with legal force (I bet), that her household consisted of two and had such-and-such income. She got into the lottery and won the right to buy the unit.

But I think the blame here should land far more on the city for not verifying the woman's household qualified for the lottery. I would let this aspect go (as I believe JackS16 is doing). As for the assessments owed, and if this is the first serious delinquency: Go after her full force.

Credit to KerryL1 for getting the thread re-directed to this path.

I take no responsibility

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JackS15 on 10/04/2022 7:21 AM
i think i get it we put a lien on the property then the mortgage company gets involved and pays it off in order to preserve their investment and charges the homeowner.

Not true. Usually quite the opposite.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Jack

It appears you do no know Jack Sh!t about the process. You need some education. Ask questions. People here will help but understand it varies state to state and docs are not always the same.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Please READ your documents. Again you don't get the lender to pay off the owner's debt. If anything the bank always gets paid FIRST and Foremost. A few states allow for "Super liens" that will put you on the SAME footing as the bank. However, if they can't collect why do you think you can collect from them?

I have done lots of liens and done a foreclosure. So far you are not really in the playing field of understanding how they work.

Former HOA President

AugustinD
Posts: 1,027

Posted:

Seems like the hoatalk forum is seeing a lot of chatter lately about the lender taking care of any HOA/COA assessment problems the owner may be having.

This has never been my experience, in observing several HOAs/COAs (two my own) in the last 20 some odd years. The lien is placed, foreclosure starts (if the board so desires), and the lender may enter the picture in a few ways subsequently.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 10/04/2022 3:02 PM
Jack

It appears you do no know Jack Sh!t about the process. You need some education. Ask questions. People here will help but understand it varies state to state and docs are not always the same.

You should read what a Condo or PUD Rider says.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/04/2022 4:07 PM
Please READ your documents. Again you don't get the lender to pay off the owner's debt. If anything the bank always gets paid FIRST and Foremost. A few states allow for "Super liens" that will put you on the SAME footing as the bank. However, if they can't collect why do you think you can collect from them?

I have done lots of liens and done a foreclosure. So far you are not really in the playing field of understanding how they work.

You should read what a Condo or PUD Rider says.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaxB4 on 10/04/2022 4:44 PM

Posted By JohnC46 on 10/04/2022 3:02 PM
Jack

It appears you do no know Jack Sh!t about the process. You need some education. Ask questions. People here will help but understand it varies state to state and docs are not always the same.

You should read what a Condo or PUD Rider says.

Sorry, not you John

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 10/04/2022 3:02 PM
Jack

It appears you do no know Jack Sh!t about the process. You need some education. Ask questions. People here will help but understand it varies state to state and docs are not always the same.

Yup. If you're on the board, I find it interesting you don't have a clue about the process and the pros and cons of each action you might take. You may not want to spend the money but it's time you and your colleagues invest in a consultation with an attorney so you can develop a plan that makes sense.

By the way, you said someone told you the lady might be struggling and your response was "she should have purchased a more affordable place." How, pray does this person even know what's going on - do you always believe whatever someone tells you just because it fits your narrative (whatever that is)? Lots of people lost their jobs over the last two years because of COVID and it can take time to come back from that. It's also scary and embarrassing to go to a creditor and tell them you need some sort of arrangement because money's tight. That may explain her reaction thus far. Yes, she could also be a deadbeat, but that's why you needs a policy a policy to help determine that

It's OK to ask for written verification of financial hardship - we told our attorney to do this before we'd consider a payment plan. It was part of the nit so nice letter that was sent before we'd drop the hammer with lawsuits and liens. The key is to treat the association as a business even though it's a nonprofit. For the association to provide services, everyone must understand they must pay their fair share of assessments in full and on time. It's not pleasant to take legal action against a neighbor, but it's also unfair for some people not pay and have the rest indirectly subsidize them.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Wanted to add a little story... A few years ago worked 3rd shift. Had a small pickup truck. Needed to buy a front wheel drive car so could drive in bad weather. My male co-worker asks me. "Why do you need a 2nd vehicle? You are not married." My response. "Do you want to drive me into work at midnight if my truck breaks down?". His answer "no". My response "then shut up if I choose to buy a car".

That is when I discovered the "single woman rule". Apparently we are to live in one bedroom apartments or condos. Own cats or cute little dogs. Our car has to be used and need mechanical help all the time. We are to work as nurses, teachers, or low income jobs. All of this until our "husbands" come save us from our frozen dinners in front of tv...

So I am not sure why the OP wants to say they lied and a two bedroom only deserves a family to live there. Plus why not enforcing they pay instead of taking excuses? Single woman status is not a handicap or a special situation. It is called having a life that has consequences of paying your bills.

Former HOA President

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Ha! TV dinners are a luxury around here. :-) I'd cheerfully live on cheese, crackers, and salads.

People who believe single folks are handicapped in some way should pay attention the problems many married people experience after the death of their spouses. On top of grief they have to master many life skills that their partners had handled. Meanwhile, single folks who have been dealing with All The Things all their lives don't miss a beat.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Melissa seems to have ignored the "affordable housing" dishonesty of this delinquent owner.

Single women "live in one bedroom apartments or condos. Own cats or cute little dogs. Our car has to be used and need mechanical help all the time. We are to work as nurses, teachers, or low income jobs." Actually that's exactly how my single mom lived with my little sister & me decades ago. One bd apt., a cat, one poorly functioning car after another & full-time, but low wages. It's called poverty and still exists way too much in the USA.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

How do we know they lied? Opinion or reality?

Former HOA President

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I'm taking the O.P's word for it. Why would he lie? Still not the point though. As others have pointed out, he & his board need to take steps and he needs to learn what they are in his state and per his governing docs.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Unless the association has a documented responsibility to police the financial status of the owners, then whether or not the owner lied is a side show. The board and others can be as annoyed as they like, but that won't change how they handle delinquencies. The obligation to address lying is on the organization that vetted the info they were provided.

The usual progression for late or non-payers is late fees with notices, liens once the amount due hits a certain level, additional steps such as letters from the association attorney and/or negotiating a payment plan(*), maybe small claims court in appropriate cases, and foreclosure as a last step. (* Payment plans can work well if the owner is motivated to pay what's due. They don't work at all if an owner is being uncooperative - however, they still may be useful as they demonstrate that the association has bent over backwards to work with the owner. This can be important if you get a judge who believes that all HOAs are nasty bullies.)

If someone isn't paying assessments, there is a decent chance that they're behind paying their mortgage as well. In many states the mortgage is the priority lien. Any proceeds from a foreclosure auction go to the bank first, and the association gets whatever is left (if anything).

The hard truth is that boards are required by laws and governing docs to behave in specific ways when dealing with homeowners, and taking short cuts or going outside their lane can make it difficult to impossible to collect delinquent assessments.

WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JackS15 on 10/04/2022 7:21 AM
i think i get it we put a lien on the property then the mortgage company gets involved and pays it off in order to preserve their investment and charges the homeowner.

yes it can work that way! BUT, typically ONLY if the owner is current on his mortgage and taxes. If he is behind on the mortgage then the mortgage company will get the money first and the hoa will get nothing in many states.

Just go to your Recorder of Deeds Website and search for the Person's name. Look for the first deed and use the Min # to look up the load provider on the Mers website.
Typically the last page of the PUD Rider has a clause saying the mortgage company MAY collect these fees in north carolina the owners signature is right below this line.. If you then fax a letter to the mortgage company saying you will be foreclosing due to the lein they might just pay it.

I've never done this, trying it right now with 2 owners who have not paid in years.
Below are links to past discussions on this:

link 1

link 2

link 3

Also some states like NC have limits on what lawyers can charge for foreclosure paperwork in our state its $1200. it's a reallly easy racket for lawyers other states are eaisly 2x to 3x this.

vis ta vie

AugustinD
Posts: 1,027

Posted:

In Boston, when two people apply together to the municipal or county program for 2-person affordable housing, stating that they will live together and have such-and-such income qualifying them for the housing, I wonder how long the two people have to live together.

Might it be perfectly legal for the two people to call it quits the day after closing, such that only one of the two ends up living in the affordable housing?

I continue to think this aspect of the situation deserves no attention from anyone (the board, other owners, et cetera).

JackS15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 84

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By WendyM5 on 10/05/2022 5:10 PM

Posted By JackS15 on 10/04/2022 7:21 AM
i think i get it we put a lien on the property then the mortgage company gets involved and pays it off in order to preserve their investment and charges the homeowner.

yes it can work that way! BUT, typically ONLY if the owner is current on his mortgage and taxes. If he is behind on the mortgage then the mortgage company will get the money first and the hoa will get nothing in many states.

Just go to your Recorder of Deeds Website and search for the Person's name. Look for the first deed and use the Min # to look up the load provider on the Mers website.
Typically the last page of the PUD Rider has a clause saying the mortgage company MAY collect these fees in north carolina the owners signature is right below this line.. If you then fax a letter to the mortgage company saying you will be foreclosing due to the lein they might just pay it.

I've never done this, trying it right now with 2 owners who have not paid in years.
Below are links to past discussions on this:

link 1

link 2

link 3

Also some states like NC have limits on what lawyers can charge for foreclosure paperwork in our state its $1200. it's a reallly easy racket for lawyers other states are eaisly 2x to 3x this.

nice this is quite helpful thank you!

AugustinD
Posts: 1,027

Posted:

More discussion of the "PUD Rider" and "Condo Rider" and how such riders may enable the HOA/COA to get the lender to pay them:

https://www.axela-tech.com/blog/use-riders-to-collect-delinquent-hoa-fees/#:~:text=If%20you%20have%20purchased%20a,the%20lender%20(aka%20mortgage).

The article provides this direct quote from one such rider:

“If Borrower does not pay condominium dues and assessments when due, then Lender may pay them. Any amounts disbursed by Lender under this paragraph F shall become additional debt of Borrower secured by the Security Instrument. Unless Borrower and Lender agree to other terms of payment, these amounts shall bear interest from the date of disbursement at the Note rate and shall be payable, with interest, upon notice from Lender to Borrower requesting payment.”

JackS15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 84

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 10/06/2022 7:52 AM
More discussion of the "PUD Rider" and "Condo Rider" and how such riders may enable the HOA/COA to get the lender to pay them:

https://www.axela-tech.com/blog/use-riders-to-collect-delinquent-hoa-fees/#:~:text=If%20you%20have%20purchased%20a,the%20lender%20(aka%20mortgage).

The article provides this direct quote from one such rider:

“If Borrower does not pay condominium dues and assessments when due, then Lender may pay them. Any amounts disbursed by Lender under this paragraph F shall become additional debt of Borrower secured by the Security Instrument. Unless Borrower and Lender agree to other terms of payment, these amounts shall bear interest from the date of disbursement at the Note rate and shall be payable, with interest, upon notice from Lender to Borrower requesting payment.”

I just spoke with an attorney and he said that you can do this but its best to be done my attorney if you want to get results.

MaxB4
Posts: 3,513

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JackS15 on 10/06/2022 10:49 AM

Posted By AugustinD on 10/06/2022 7:52 AM
More discussion of the "PUD Rider" and "Condo Rider" and how such riders may enable the HOA/COA to get the lender to pay them:

https://www.axela-tech.com/blog/use-riders-to-collect-delinquent-hoa-fees/#:~:text=If%20you%20have%20purchased%20a,the%20lender%20(aka%20mortgage).

The article provides this direct quote from one such rider:

“If Borrower does not pay condominium dues and assessments when due, then Lender may pay them. Any amounts disbursed by Lender under this paragraph F shall become additional debt of Borrower secured by the Security Instrument. Unless Borrower and Lender agree to other terms of payment, these amounts shall bear interest from the date of disbursement at the Note rate and shall be payable, with interest, upon notice from Lender to Borrower requesting payment.”

I just spoke with an attorney and he said that you can do this but its best to be done my attorney if you want to get results.

Of course the attorney would say it is best to have an attorney do this. I have successfully done about 15 of these without the use of an attorney. It is just a matter of asjing nicely and following up.

WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JackS15 on 10/06/2022 10:49 AM

Posted By AugustinD on 10/06/2022 7:52 AM
More discussion of the "PUD Rider" and "Condo Rider" and how such riders may enable the HOA/COA to get the lender to pay them:

https://www.axela-tech.com/blog/use-riders-to-collect-delinquent-hoa-fees/#:~:text=If%20you%20have%20purchased%20a,the%20lender%20(aka%20mortgage).

The article provides this direct quote from one such rider:

“If Borrower does not pay condominium dues and assessments when due, then Lender may pay them. Any amounts disbursed by Lender under this paragraph F shall become additional debt of Borrower secured by the Security Instrument. Unless Borrower and Lender agree to other terms of payment, these amounts shall bear interest from the date of disbursement at the Note rate and shall be payable, with interest, upon notice from Lender to Borrower requesting payment.”

I just spoke with an attorney and he said that you can do this but its best to be done my attorney if you want to get results.

So an attorney that makes thousands of dollars via foreclosures told you to use the method that makes him richer? I'm flabergasted, lol. That's a conflict of interest, but lawyers only care about that if they are not the ones being enriched.

vis ta vie

JackS15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 84

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By WendyM5 on 10/06/2022 11:06 AM

Posted By JackS15 on 10/06/2022 10:49 AM

Posted By AugustinD on 10/06/2022 7:52 AM
More discussion of the "PUD Rider" and "Condo Rider" and how such riders may enable the HOA/COA to get the lender to pay them:

https://www.axela-tech.com/blog/use-riders-to-collect-delinquent-hoa-fees/#:~:text=If%20you%20have%20purchased%20a,the%20lender%20(aka%20mortgage).

The article provides this direct quote from one such rider:

“If Borrower does not pay condominium dues and assessments when due, then Lender may pay them. Any amounts disbursed by Lender under this paragraph F shall become additional debt of Borrower secured by the Security Instrument. Unless Borrower and Lender agree to other terms of payment, these amounts shall bear interest from the date of disbursement at the Note rate and shall be payable, with interest, upon notice from Lender to Borrower requesting payment.”

I just spoke with an attorney and he said that you can do this but its best to be done my attorney if you want to get results.

So an attorney that makes thousands of dollars via foreclosures told you to use the method that makes him richer? I'm flabergasted, lol. That's a conflict of interest, but lawyers only care about that if they are not the ones being enriched.

i figured so but just wanted to make sure.

JackS15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 84

Posted:

So i take it we should go to the registry and put the Lein on the mortgage before we reach out to the mortgage company?

WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JackS15 on 10/06/2022 11:10 AM
So i take it we should go to the registry and put the Lein on the mortgage before we reach out to the mortgage company?

Depends on the lender, some will want a lien before they pay, others may pay just with proof of money owed??? just call and ask. Often the mortgage phone number is right on the paper work and is a direct line instead of being jerked around some phone menu system for 10 minutes.

vis ta vie

JackS15 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 84

Posted:

i just spoke with an attorney and he gave me a form letter that i can use as a template. I guess we can send it first then call later as a follow up. you should include balance sheet of all past due amounts and balances.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I do not know how a lawyer makes "thousands of dollars" off a foreclosure. Ours made $800 in legal fees. Our HOA in the foreclosure just stopped the bleeding. We had no profit. Just getting rid of a non-payer was our result at foreclosure.

Again stop with fantasy tv shows and deal with reality. It is a good idea in this case to consult an attorney if you don't know what you are doing. The next time you can take the wheels off. The first time I would have a lawyer.

Note we had to have a lawyer to file where I live for a lien. So there was no avoiding it. They charged around $400 that was attached to the lien to collect when lien was paid. Lawyer wasn't making thousands of dollars...

Former HOA President

WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/06/2022 1:00 PM
I do not know how a lawyer makes "thousands of dollars" off a foreclosure. Ours made $800 in legal fees. Our HOA in the foreclosure just stopped the bleeding. We had no profit. Just getting rid of a non-payer was our result at foreclosure.

Again stop with fantasy tv shows and deal with reality. It is a good idea in this case to consult an attorney if you don't know what you are doing. The next time you can take the wheels off. The first time I would have a lawyer.

Note we had to have a lawyer to file where I live for a lien. So there was no avoiding it. They charged around $400 that was attached to the lien to collect when lien was paid. Lawyer wasn't making thousands of dollars...

$800 x 10 foreclosures = $8000
foreclosureS
yeah I put an S in there, it's plural.

I've seen quotes for foreclosures where lawyers charged $2000+
so it's possible for one foreclosure (no s at the end)
as well
just basic math , not a fantasy tv show.

vis ta vie

WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 10/06/2022 1:00 PM
I do not know how a lawyer makes "thousands of dollars" off a foreclosure. Ours made $800 in legal fees. Our HOA in the foreclosure just stopped the bleeding. We had no profit. Just getting rid of a non-payer was our result at foreclosure.

Again stop with fantasy tv shows and deal with reality. It is a good idea in this case to consult an attorney if you don't know what you are doing. The next time you can take the wheels off. The first time I would have a lawyer.

Note we had to have a lawyer to file where I live for a lien. So there was no avoiding it. They charged around $400 that was attached to the lien to collect when lien was paid. Lawyer wasn't making thousands of dollars...

if you dont' know what you are doing, the very worse thing that can happen is the mortgage company says no. Most people can handle that outcome.

vis ta vie